Liverpool FC Forum

[tonyeh]

People need to stop harping on about a night in Istanbul 4 years ago. It's bloody ridiculous.

That was touch and go and it could have easilly have gone the other way.

The present situation isn't an Istanbul moment. It's not comparable in any way. It's the result of stubborn, single minded, bad management and a badly built team, unable to cope with the reality of a Premiership struggle.

What a complete load of wank!

No one in their right mind, or with any kind of football knowledge, could dispute that our first 11, when on form, is as good as any side anywhere in Europe. It's been proven.

People like you forget, that had it not been for Rafa, we'd have never seen the likes of Torres, Mascherano, Reina, Alonso etc etc at our club. When's the last time we'd a superstar player in our team that's now coveted by every single team on the planet, could they afford him? Years ago, I looked at sides like Milan and Barcalona with absolute envy with the players they had like George Weah, Raul, and Shevshenko spearheading their attack and wished, wished, that we could possibly have a player of that prestige in our side, but knew we'd never be able to afford one, not to mention these players were prolific in Europe, somewhere where we'd just completely dropped off the map back then. Are you forgetting who put us back on there?

If you feel his time is up, or have lost patience with the man, that's fair enough. But don't besmirch what he's done for us as a club with the kind of bollox you're ranting about. At least give the man some credit and respect, which he deserves.

Bollocks talk.

Liverpool have a great goalie, an outstanding striker, an excellent playmaker in Gerrard and a yet to be truly tested attacking RB in Johnson.

The rest border on each side of average, with the exceptions of Carragher (who's probably past his sell-by date), Mascherano (who's a one trick pony) and benayoon (who's VERY hit and miss and wanted away last year).

On top of that, when the truly good players are injured, there is nobody to step in.

To me, that's a badly built team, especially for a serious Prem challenge.

Liverpool are in NO WAY a top class outfit.

AND people like YOU forget, that if it wasn't for Rafa, we probably wouldn't have seen the likes of Alonso (and possibly Masch if reports are to be believed) leave.

[REDTILLDEAD]

Too many people living on Istanbul........today is reality......and the reality is we aint moved on, or built a team capable of wining the CL or the prem title since 05'....rafa has taken one step forward...and 2 back with our club....we are no better off than when houilier was in charge.

[stmichael]

Liverpool have a great goalie, an outstanding striker, an excellent playmaker in Gerrard and a yet to be truly tested attacking RB in Johnson.

The rest border on each side of average, with the exceptions of Carragher (who's probably past his sell-by date), Mascherano (who's a one trick pony) and benayoon (who's VERY hit and miss and wanted away last year).

So much wrong with that post I can't be ar$ed going into it.

[tonyeh]

Liverpool have a great goalie, an outstanding striker, an excellent playmaker in Gerrard and a yet to be truly tested attacking RB in Johnson.

The rest border on each side of average, with the exceptions of Carragher (who's probably past his sell-by date), Mascherano (who's a one trick pony) and benayoon (who's VERY hit and miss and wanted away last year).

So much wrong with that post I can't be ar$ed going into it.

Ah go on........you know you want to.   

Look, it's simple. Without the holy trinity of Torres, Gerrard and Reina in the squad, Liverpool are going to struggle.

Liverpool rely WAYYY too much on too few players.

...and that's a badly built outfit for a Premiership title challenge.

[stmichael]

Liverpool have a great goalie, an outstanding striker, an excellent playmaker in Gerrard and a yet to be truly tested attacking RB in Johnson.

The rest border on each side of average, with the exceptions of Carragher (who's probably past his sell-by date), Mascherano (who's a one trick pony) and benayoon (who's VERY hit and miss and wanted away last year).

So much wrong with that post I can't be ar$ed going into it.

Ah go on........you know you want to.   

Look, it's simple. Without the holy trinity of Torres, Gerrard and Reina in the squad, Liverpool are going to struggle.

Liverpool rely WAYYY too much on too few players.

...and that's a badly built outfit for a Premiership title challenge.

well first of all, is it johnson's fault that he hasn't been tested? all that matters is he's probaly been out best player this season. certainly our best attacking weapon in the majority of games when torres and gerrard don't play.

if mascherano is a "one trick pony" he's the best "one trick pony" of his type in europe, hence why barcelona have been chasing him for the best part of a year. nobody is looking for him to be scoring and making goals. that's not his job.

do you honestly believe that agger is an "average" player?

i agree with the over-reliance part by the way.

[yolz]

I don't think we are in it any more realistically anymore
I just hope we're still in the Champion's league next year
How long has it been since we won a premiership title anyway?
Yet there are so many fans here wearing their hearts on their sleeves and we still hope
Let's get over this season without any more bashing of the manager or the lads,
focusing rather on the rebuilding of the club
I started supporting Liverpool from the days of the "red wall" led by Alan Hansen and co,
I just hope that the glory days of a winning dynasty come soon

[maguskwt]

Liverpool have a great goalie, an outstanding striker, an excellent playmaker in Gerrard and a yet to be truly tested attacking RB in Johnson.

Right... Torres is only "an outstanding striker"...  ... he's not really one of probably 2 or 3 best strikers in the world he's only "an outstanding striker"...  ... and how dare Rafa paid 20 million for him....

[tonyeh]

Liverpool have a great goalie, an outstanding striker, an excellent playmaker in Gerrard and a yet to be truly tested attacking RB in Johnson.

The rest border on each side of average, with the exceptions of Carragher (who's probably past his sell-by date), Mascherano (who's a one trick pony) and benayoon (who's VERY hit and miss and wanted away last year).

So much wrong with that post I can't be ar$ed going into it.

Ah go on........you know you want to.   

Look, it's simple. Without the holy trinity of Torres, Gerrard and Reina in the squad, Liverpool are going to struggle.

Liverpool rely WAYYY too much on too few players.

...and that's a badly built outfit for a Premiership title challenge.

well first of all, is it johnson's fault that he hasn't been tested? all that matters is he's probaly been out best player this season. certainly our best attacking weapon in the majority of games when torres and gerrard don't play.

if mascherano is a "one trick pony" he's the best "one trick pony" of his type in europe, hence why barcelona have been chasing him for the best part of a year. nobody is looking for him to be scoring and making goals. that's not his job.

do you honestly believe that agger is an "average" player?

i agree with the over-reliance part by the way.

But, to me Mick, the fact that a RB is our best attacking option sans Torres is damnation rather than praise.

Mascherano is very good at what he does, but that's it. He doesn't offer anything else. He can win a stop/win a ball...but has no forward going qualities. For the record, I think Mascherano is incredibly over-rated and I don't think he's a very bright lad either, to be honest. Does he add to the squad? Yes. Would I sell him? No. Will he leave? I think Yes.

I'm in two minds about Agger, to be blunt. I rate him over Skyrtle. But, at times he's gone missing. I'm not sure whether that's entirely down to him or the back four in general.

Either way, sans Torres, Gerrard and Reina...Liverpool look a very average team.

[tonyeh]

Liverpool have a great goalie, an outstanding striker, an excellent playmaker in Gerrard and a yet to be truly tested attacking RB in Johnson.

Right... Torres is only "an outstanding striker"...  ... he's not really one of probably 2 or 3 best strikers in the world he's only "an outstanding striker"...  ... and how dare Rafa paid 20 million for him....

Eh?   

Emmmm...yeh, and along with "probably 2 or 3 best strikers in the world", he stands out with them from all the rest.

Look up the word "outstanding".

[maguskwt]

Liverpool have a great goalie, an outstanding striker, an excellent playmaker in Gerrard and a yet to be truly tested attacking RB in Johnson.

Right... Torres is only "an outstanding striker"...  ... he's not really one of probably 2 or 3 best strikers in the world he's only "an outstanding striker"...  ... and how dare Rafa paid 20 million for him....

Eh?   

Emmmm...yeh, and along with "probably 2 or 3 best strikers in the world", he stands out with them from all the rest.

Look up the word "outstanding".

look up the word "relativity"...

[tonyeh]

Liverpool have a great goalie, an outstanding striker, an excellent playmaker in Gerrard and a yet to be truly tested attacking RB in Johnson.

Right... Torres is only "an outstanding striker"...  ... he's not really one of probably 2 or 3 best strikers in the world he's only "an outstanding striker"...  ... and how dare Rafa paid 20 million for him....

Eh?   

Emmmm...yeh, and along with "probably 2 or 3 best strikers in the world", he stands out with them from all the rest.

Look up the word "outstanding".

look up the word "relativity"...

Look up the word "Numpty"

[Emerald Red]

Liverpool have a great goalie, an outstanding striker, an excellent playmaker in Gerrard and a yet to be truly tested attacking RB in Johnson.

The rest border on each side of average, with the exceptions of Carragher (who's probably past his sell-by date), Mascherano (who's a one trick pony) and benayoon (who's VERY hit and miss and wanted away last year).

So much wrong with that post I can't be ar$ed going into it.

Ah go on........you know you want to.   

Look, it's simple. Without the holy trinity of Torres, Gerrard and Reina in the squad, Liverpool are going to struggle.

Liverpool rely WAYYY too much on too few players.

...and that's a badly built outfit for a Premiership title challenge.

Right. Take the top three players out of any top side in Europe, and they'd be exactly the same. Now, unless you're Chelsea or Real Madrid or money bags City, you're not gonna have a bench with some of the top talent around. Seriously, do you even give a thought about some of the stuff you actually write at times? We've a team of top international players. Argentina is built around Mascherano. Pepe, Torres, Riera, and until recently Alonso are all more or less first choice for Spain, and the only reason Reina doesn't play for them as much is practically down to Madrid favoritism with Casillas. I think more or less the only player in our first 11 that isn't a regular in their respective national sides is Carragher, and then again he never really was. Odd, no? I suppose Carragher is a bit sh*t then, going by that evaluation, right?

[maguskwt]

Liverpool have a great goalie, an outstanding striker, an excellent playmaker in Gerrard and a yet to be truly tested attacking RB in Johnson.

Right... Torres is only "an outstanding striker"...  ... he's not really one of probably 2 or 3 best strikers in the world he's only "an outstanding striker"...  ... and how dare Rafa paid 20 million for him....

Eh?   

Emmmm...yeh, and along with "probably 2 or 3 best strikers in the world", he stands out with them from all the rest.

Look up the word "outstanding".

look up the word "relativity"...

Look up the word "Numpty"

look up the word "clueless"...

[account deleted by request]

if mascherano is a "one trick pony" he's the best "one trick pony" of his type in europe, hence why barcelona have been chasing him for the best part of a year. nobody is looking for him to be scoring and making goals. that's not his job.

Sorry StMike 

Rafa Benitez has challenged Javier Mascherano to build on his derby day glory and become a regular goalscorer for Liverpool.



Rafa's Masch goal challenge - Liverpool FC

The Argentina skipper's deflected effort against Everton a week ago is set to go before the dubious goals panel but Benitez is giving his man full credit.

And he wants Mascherano and others to keep trying their luck from outside the box.

The boss told Liverpoolfc.tv: "Since the first day when we signed Javier we've talked about goals because he's not bad at shooting from outside the box.

"He can do well on this, so he has to keep trying. If he does, he'll score more goals.

"He tries in training. He doesn't score too many when you compare it to Gerrard but still it's a good and a different option for us.

"For everyone, if you're at the edge of the box you have to try. It doesn't matter what position you play - if you're a centre-back or left-back or midfielder, you must try.

"The main thing is to try. You might get a deflection. For me, Mascherano's goal was a deflection, not an own goal."

Meanwhile, Benitez confirmed Mascherano will not travel with Argentina for their unofficial friendly with Catalunya later this month.
The gaffer believes his No.20 is approaching top form and is reluctant to let him go during the crucial festive period.

Benitez said: "It's a friendly game that comes during Christmas time, and we have a game on the 26th and 28th. It's too much for us, so the best thing for us is if he doesn't go and doesn't play.

"He is coming back to the level we know. He had some problems at the beginning of the season but he's now playing really well.

"We're really pleased because we have the Mascherano we signed."

[aCe']

Liverpool have a great goalie, an outstanding striker, an excellent playmaker in Gerrard and a yet to be truly tested attacking RB in Johnson.

The rest border on each side of average, with the exceptions of Carragher (who's probably past his sell-by date), Mascherano (who's a one trick pony) and benayoon (who's VERY hit and miss and wanted away last year).

So much wrong with that post I can't be ar$ed going into it.

Ah go on........you know you want to.   

Look, it's simple. Without the holy trinity of Torres, Gerrard and Reina in the squad, Liverpool are going to struggle.

Liverpool rely WAYYY too much on too few players.

...and that's a badly built outfit for a Premiership title challenge.

Right. Take the top three players out of any top side in Europe, and they'd be exactly the same. Now, unless you're Chelsea or Real Madrid or money bags City, you're not gonna have a bench with some of the top talent around. Seriously, do you even give a thought about some of the stuff you actually write at times? We've a team of top international players. Argentina is built around Mascherano. Pepe, Torres, Riera, and until recently Alonso are all more or less first choice for Spain, and the only reason Reina doesn't play for them as much is practically down to Madrid favoritism with Casillas. I think more or less the only player in our first 11 that isn't a regular in their respective national sides is Carragher, and then again he never really was. Odd, no? I suppose Carragher is a bit sh*t then, going by that evaluation, right?

mmmm...

Arsenal, ManUtd, Chelsea aswell as Tottenham, ManCity and even Villa have better benches than we do...
RealMadrid, Barcelona, Sevilla, Valencia, even Atletico Madrid have better benches.
InterMilan, Juventus, Bayern...etc etc

Any club with title aspirations must have players of sufficient quality on the bench... we lack that to some extent even when all our starting players are available...

TBH, the only players who are good enough to even be on a bench for a top side from the ones we have now are:

- Benny
- Babel
- Skrtel
- Insua (to some extent, assuming Aurelio is the starter.. dont think hes any better than Fabio(manutd) or A.Traore(arsenal) or Ferreria(chelsea) who all didnt make their respective benches for me but still, as a backup fullback hes alright..
.
- Lucas (depending on the position and formation, if you play 3 in the middle like we do, i dont think its sufficient having Lucas as the only CM substitute, no better than the likes of Gibson, Merida and Wilshere who all consistently miss out on benches)

Theres an obvious shortage in decent attacking options, and not just the forwards , the midfield too...

Compared to the other top sides say in England, the player they have who are good enough to make a bench...

ManUtd:

Owen
Nani
Park J
Scholes
Anderson
Hargreaves
Neville
Oshea
Evans

Arsenal:

Eduardo
Bendtner
Nasri
Rosicky
Diaby
Ramsi
Eboue
Djouro
Gibbs

Chelsea:

Sturridge
Kalou
Deco
Malouda
Zhirkov
Mikel
Belletti
Alex
Ivanovic


even the sides outside the top4...

Tottenham:

Keane
Pavlyuchenko
Krankjar
Giovani dos santos
Jenas
Bentley
Hutton
Bale
Bassong
Dawson

Aston Villa:

Heskey
Downing
ReoCocker
L.Yound
Davies
Beye

ManCity:

Bellamy
SantaCruz....etc etc



Our bench is lacking and its hard to argue against that...  Our starting 11 are excellent, theres no arguing that... But past those 11 players its hard to see where the quality would come from... Arguably, the only player who could get injured without it being a massive blow for the side given the formation we play would be KUYT...

Internationals or not, most of the players we have in the squad today are quite simply not good enough..