Liverpool FC Forum

[Dundalk]

We are 28/1 with Ladbrokes to win it


WE HAVE NO CHANCE!!



Honest to God, it embarrassing if other fans come on here and look at this, they would be in stitches!!

[SupitsJonF]

I think the better question would be, Can we win a game?  With the remaining 20ish games we have left, we still play Portsmouth, Wolves, and Everton at home.  Although tricky, it is definitely possible to get 3 points

[Festy]

It is possible, but do you think we can?

No it's not possible. And we would be lucky to even finish 4th this season.

[kazza]

Going back to Istanbul, no one would have thought we would turn it around but football is a funny thing and anything can happen. Can we win the league? Most certainly. Is it likely? probably not. Would not stop me hoping for it or supporting the team one match at a time. This talk about right and wrong proves my point some are more concerned with their own agenda.

It is about support people, pure and simple. Why support a team that you are convinced will not go anywhere, because if you truley believe that the team is going nowhere (and not just an act of petulence), you might as well change the team you support because it will be hard going. As long as it is mathematically possibe, you have to believe it could happen.

[Owzat]

Oh give over man, it is mathematically possible but given our form of 9 points out of the last 24 there is little sign of this corner Rafa reckons we've turned any time we beat a rival. Maybe he's confused with English and really means we're stuck on an f in roundabout and going nowhere fast.

04/05 58 points
05/06 82 points - Premiership best
06/07 68 points
07/08 76 points
08/09 86 points - new Premiership best
09/10 61 points - projected total based on 1.6 points per game (24/15 x 38)

If we carry on at the current rate, and while we face Chelsea at home we also face the mancs away and have to play Arsenal twice, we would only be three points better off than in Rafa's first season - is that "progress" ?

Remaining fixtures

HOME

Should win : Blackburn, Bolton, Bitters, Fulham, Portsmouth, Sunderland, West Ham, Wigan, Wolves
Could win : Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham

AWAY

Winnable : Birmingham, Burnley, Hull, Portsmouth, Stoke, Wigan, Wolves
Testing : Aston Villa, Man City
Tough : Arsenal, Man Utd

So if we win the nine home games that we should, and say pick up five points from the other three home games, that would give us 32 more home points. If we win the winnable away games and say pick up five points from the testing and tough games, that would give us 26 more away points. Add that to our 24 points and we could have 82 points, even being generous with wins we'd be struggling to win the league with that tally and that would only include one further loss.

So get over it, it ain't gonna happen. Even in a highly optimistic scenario we'd struggle to win as many games as we'd need to, even on a footy management game you'd struggle to win the league from our position. For "should win", "could win", you could read "shouldn't lose", "could lose". If we do finish fourth or third, I reckon we'd still need to buck our ideas up

THIRD

08/09 83 points
07/08 83 points
06/07 68 points (Liverpool)
05/06 82 points (Liverpool)
04/05 77 points
03/04 75 points

FOURTH

08/09 72 points
07/08 76 points (Liverpool)
06/07 68 points
05/06 67 points
04/05 61 points
03/04 60 points

So 70+ points looks likely for fourth, 80+ points likely for third and we're on course for 61. Even Rafa's overall Premiership average points per game (1.92) would see us reach 73 points, that might be just enough for fourth but isn't quite what most would consider the "best manager since............." material, quoting win ratios or whatever. Fact remains you can't readily compare eras, money has changed the face of the league. Even two points per game average is not that impressive and is likely to get you only third or fourth. Even our Premiership best of 86 points would only have won two league titles in the last decade, in the previous decade 86 points would have won eight out of 10 league titles which just proves how much the league has changed with the ever increasing spend causing a divide between the big spenders/clubs and the rest - and the two league titles 86 points wouldn't have won were 42 game seasons so four extra games (89 points and 92 points)

It could be the chances to win the league have once again slipped past us, we need to be challenging more consistently because we're not (yet) in a position to throw the kind of money at winning the league that would make me confident Rafa could win it - starting bid at £200m.

[Owzat]

Going back to Istanbul, no one would have thought we would turn it around but football is a funny thing and anything can happen. Can we win the league? Most certainly. Is it likely? probably not.

So you're using a CUP game for comparison with the league ?!?!?!?! I don't recall heimdall doing the same and he came out with some daft c r a p

There's a massive difference between winning 19+ games out of 23 to win the league, and coming back in a match that lasted 120 mins with around 15 mins of spectacular comeback football. In one game of football Burnley can beat Man Utd, over 38 games most (sane) people don't even consider betting on Burnley to win the league. spudz knocked the stuffing out of Wigan recently, only the most optimistic spudz fans are anticipating they'll win the league and they have more pointers towards that eventuality than we do

   

[kazza]

Going back to Istanbul, no one would have thought we would turn it around but football is a funny thing and anything can happen. Can we win the league? Most certainly. Is it likely? probably not.

So you're using a CUP game for comparison with the league ?!?!?!?! I don't recall heimdall doing the same and he came out with some daft c r a p

There's a massive difference between winning 19+ games out of 23 to win the league, and coming back in a match that lasted 120 mins with around 15 mins of spectacular comeback football. In one game of football Burnley can beat Man Utd, over 38 games most (sane) people don't even consider betting on Burnley to win the league. spudz knocked the stuffing out of Wigan recently, only the most optimistic spudz fans are anticipating they'll win the league and they have more pointers towards that eventuality than we do

   

Errr, when did I compare a cup game with winning the league. All I said was in football anything can happen, so you must have hope that good things will happen. Utd went on a run last year so why can't we. As long as it is POSSIBLE, then I hope it could happen. As for comparing me to heimdall because I choose to stay positive.....

Back to Istanbul, I bet Owzat that at half time in 2005 if asked you would have given us zero chance of winning that match, zero. You would have said how it was impossible to score three goals against the most solid defensive side in Europe with the players we had, you would have come up with stats to show how no one had ever come back from 3-0 down to win etc etc, now in retrospect you are putting in qualifiers because after all hindsight is 20-20. Not a dig at you Owzat because probably only 1-2% would have truly felt we could have come back, and they would have been hallucinating. But it did happen, although it seemed impossible. As I said, anything can happen in football, and as long as there is a chance, i choose to believe it may happen just as you choose to throw in the towel. Does that make me daft? No! Overly optamistic? Maybe!

[tonyeh]

People need to stop harping on about a night in Istanbul 4 years ago. It's bloody ridiculous.

That was touch and go and it could have easilly have gone the other way.

The present situation isn't an Istanbul moment. It's not comparable in any way. It's the result of stubborn, single minded, bad management and a badly built team, unable to cope with the reality of a Premiership struggle. That's why we aren't in the race and that's why we'll NEVER be in the race as long as Benitez keeps operating the way he does. We got lucky last season (despite playing mediocre football for the better part of it), but we still fucked it up.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...this is simply the chickens coming home to roost...

[kazza]

People need to stop harping on about a night in Istanbul 4 years ago. It's bloody ridiculous.

That was touch and go and it could have easilly have gone the other way.

The present situation isn't an Istanbul moment. It's not comparable in any way. It's the result of stubborn, single minded, bad management and a badly built team, unable to cope with the reality of a Premiership struggle. That's why we aren't in the race and that's why we'll NEVER be in the race as long as Benitez keeps operating the way he does. We got lucky last season (despite playing mediocre football for the better part of it), but we still fucked it up.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...this is simply the chickens coming home to roost...

Obviously people are not reading the post properly. Istanbul is only relevant as at the time things seemed over and yet it worked out. At the time all would have said it was IMPOSSIBLE to win that match, yet we did.

Point is just because you throw around words like IMPOSSIBLE does not make it so.

[tonyeh]

No, people are reading your post correctly. They're just not agreeing to the obviously flawed analogy you are offering.

[Dundalk]

I think the better question would be, Can we win a game?  With the remaining 20ish games we have left, we still play Portsmouth, Wolves, and Everton at home.  Although tricky, it is definitely possible to get 3 points

   

[kazza]

No, people are reading your post correctly. They're just not agreeing to the obviously flawed analogy you are offering.

I can see how "until mathamatically impossible it is possible" would be considered flawed 

[Emerald Red]

People need to stop harping on about a night in Istanbul 4 years ago. It's bloody ridiculous.

That was touch and go and it could have easilly have gone the other way.

The present situation isn't an Istanbul moment. It's not comparable in any way. It's the result of stubborn, single minded, bad management and a badly built team, unable to cope with the reality of a Premiership struggle.

What a complete load of wank!

No one in their right mind, or with any kind of football knowledge, could dispute that our first 11, when on form, is as good as any side anywhere in Europe. It's been proven.

People like you forget, that had it not been for Rafa, we'd have never seen the likes of Torres, Mascherano, Reina, Alonso etc etc at our club. When's the last time we'd a superstar player in our team that's now coveted by every single team on the planet, could they afford him? Years ago, I looked at sides like Milan and Barcalona with absolute envy with the players they had like George Weah, Raul, and Shevshenko spearheading their attack and wished, wished, that we could possibly have a player of that prestige in our side, but knew we'd never be able to afford one, not to mention these players were prolific in Europe, somewhere where we'd just completely dropped off the map back then. Are you forgetting who put us back on there?

If you feel his time is up, or have lost patience with the man, that's fair enough. But don't besmirch what he's done for us as a club with the kind of bollox you're ranting about. At least give the man some credit and respect, which he deserves.

[Emerald Red]

People need to stop harping on about a night in Istanbul 4 years ago. It's bloody ridiculous.

That was touch and go and it could have easilly have gone the other way.

The present situation isn't an Istanbul moment. It's not comparable in any way. It's the result of stubborn, single minded, bad management and a badly built team, unable to cope with the reality of a Premiership struggle. That's why we aren't in the race and that's why we'll NEVER be in the race as long as Benitez keeps operating the way he does. We got lucky last season (despite playing mediocre football for the better part of it), but we still fucked it up.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...this is simply the chickens coming home to roost...

Obviously people are not reading the post properly. Istanbul is only relevant as at the time things seemed over and yet it worked out. At the time all would have said it was IMPOSSIBLE to win that match, yet we did.

Point is just because you throw around words like IMPOSSIBLE does not make it so.

Istanbul was only one night. There were several others before that made Istanbul posible. However, to use that as a beacon of hope as far as our league is concerned is the wrong thing to do. In 90 minutes, anything is possible. In the course of an entire season, you have to have all the nuts and bolts tightened for the machine to function properly and to get over the finishing line in first place. Rafa has not got all the nuts and bolts tightened as he hasn't even got all the parts to use them on. We will NOT win the league. We are well out of it, so any notion of a slim hope of ressurrection should be swept under the carpet. Rafa has made errors. He has also been a victim of circumstance that is beyond his control. The rest, the "others" have to take responsiblity for also. The scapegoating of Rafa Benitez for this season is sickening to witness.

[kazza]

People need to stop harping on about a night in Istanbul 4 years ago. It's bloody ridiculous.

That was touch and go and it could have easilly have gone the other way.

The present situation isn't an Istanbul moment. It's not comparable in any way. It's the result of stubborn, single minded, bad management and a badly built team, unable to cope with the reality of a Premiership struggle. That's why we aren't in the race and that's why we'll NEVER be in the race as long as Benitez keeps operating the way he does. We got lucky last season (despite playing mediocre football for the better part of it), but we still fucked it up.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...this is simply the chickens coming home to roost...

Obviously people are not reading the post properly. Istanbul is only relevant as at the time things seemed over and yet it worked out. At the time all would have said it was IMPOSSIBLE to win that match, yet we did.

Point is just because you throw around words like IMPOSSIBLE does not make it so.

Istanbul was only one night. There were several others before that made Istanbul posible. However, to use that as a beacon of hope as far as our league is concerned is the wrong thing to do. In 90 minutes, anything is possible. In the course of an entire season, you have to have all the nuts and bolts tightened for the machine to function properly and to get over the finishing line in first place. Rafa has not got all the nuts and bolts tightened as he hasn't even got all the parts to use them on. We will NOT win the league. We are well out of it, so any notion of a slim hope of ressurrection should be swept under the carpet. Rafa has made errors. He has also been a victim of circumstance that is beyond his control. The rest, the "others" have to take responsiblity for also. The scapegoating of Rafa Benitez for this season is sickening to witness.

You are right about more than one night. We had to beat the greeks by two goals and they scored one so it became hopeless. We then had to beat a tough Juve (which seemed impossible) and we did. We then had to beat an unbeatable Chelsea and we did. It was not one match, but an impossible ride.

I certainly will not put money on Liverpool to win the league, but still hope they might. Last year most were saying we can win it with Raff and now most are saying we will never win it with Raffa. The scape-goating of Raffa is pathetic as there are so many variable that are out of his hands. No doubt he has made mistakes but he is human. This agenda by some to constantly discredit him is sickening, and the sheep that follow are just drones.