Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

The key to good football is balance. We played great football 2 seasons ago in our run to the FA cup final and 3rd in the league. Once we get the balance right we will start to play great football again. Kewell showed us in his little cameo what one of our problems has been and what we have been missing.

The one thing we still need to get sorted is the role that Rafa keeps asking our strikers to fill unsuccessfully, that of the hard working second striker. Kuyt and before him Morientes have struggled with the role, Gerrard when asked to do it has usually abandoned it, and the only players to achieve some level of success with the role was the inconsistant Garcia(who played it creatively not just with labour)

We desperately need more creativity in the final third, hard work and application are no match for ability, speed of thought and vision at the top level.

Sell either Crouch or Kuyt (KUYT FOR ME ) and buy a second striker that can create goals (maybe even score one or two). People say its because Kuyt is too slow, no its because he's not good enough. Dalglish was slow, Sheringham was slow, Bergkamp and Stjohn were slow, but they had vision ,speed of thought and the ability to create openings for others.

Get the balance right and the good football will follow, get it wrong and you get games like we have had to watch over the last season and a half. Games won by frustrating and stifling the opposition rather than by our attacking flair.

[Lando_Griffin]

we are nowhere near arsenal quality.

and we expect to win this year's premier? don't kid yourselves..

Lets say fabregaes and toure gets injured , then we will see if arsenal remains unbeaten

Then lets say Gerrard and Carra gets injured... let's see how long we are unbeatened? .... Why deny the fact that they have earned their points. Give credit where credit is due..... But in all honesty, screw 'em... I'm more interested in how WE are playing at the moment.....

And fact of the matter, IMHO, is that we are absolutely shocking.

I donno what other excuses I can come up with now....

I take it you fell asleep just before Torres, Alonso, Carragher, Agger, Arbeloa, Aurelio, Pennant, Gerrard, Kewell and the others got injured this season, then? We've had the best part of our first team out for long periods already, but you wonder why we're struggling?

Talk sense lad.

[Lando_Griffin]

Liverpool fans are to loyal to start getting on the back of the mananger, so it's pretty obvious we'll be continuing to play this style of football until the board realise Benitez isn't the right man for Liverpool and finally appoint a footballing manager, who also shows some passion for Liverpool Football Club. Paul Jewell and Sammy Lee as our new number 1 and 2. Bring back the scousers.

Don't make me get another card by posting such inflammatory bullsh*t.

[Lando_Griffin]

Just checking out the stats of Rafa's first title with Valencia 2001-2002
Top scorers:
Aurelio (defender) - 8
Aimar (Midfielder) - 8
Carew (striker) - 8
Doesn't auger well for anyone hoping of attacking football, does it?

attacking football isnt going to happen under rafa.  Its not entertaining or exciting at all.  Its football where the first intention is not to concede.  At the time of the appointment people did say they were shocked that LFC went with a negative coach and there is no doubt his negative.  Athens was another example of the negativity where rafa refused to go for the win and we lost because of it.  This style isnt condusive to scoring goals and isnt a style which will deliver the title.

28 shots and we didn't go for the win?

The mind boggles... 

[account deleted by request]

Liverpool fans are to loyal to start getting on the back of the mananger, so it's pretty obvious we'll be continuing to play this style of football until the board realise Benitez isn't the right man for Liverpool and finally appoint a footballing manager, who also shows some passion for Liverpool Football Club. Paul Jewell and Sammy Lee as our new number 1 and 2. Bring back the scousers.

Don't make me get another card by posting such inflammatory bullsh*t.

sometimes a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do Lando 

[Lando_Griffin]

Liverpool fans are to loyal to start getting on the back of the mananger, so it's pretty obvious we'll be continuing to play this style of football until the board realise Benitez isn't the right man for Liverpool and finally appoint a footballing manager, who also shows some passion for Liverpool Football Club. Paul Jewell and Sammy Lee as our new number 1 and 2. Bring back the scousers.

Don't make me get another card by posting such inflammatory bullsh*t.

sometimes a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do Lando 

I call for a temporary card amnesty...

[stmichael]

This idea that only out and out attacking football wins the league and that you can't do it with two defensive midfielders and a lone striker is revisionist, and discounts two years of Chelsea dominance. The main difference being that we don't have one fifth of the wide talent Chelsea had at their disposal during that time.

In any case, I don't agree that Rafa's philosophy is entirely negative. If you look at his Valencia team they showed the same qualities and tactics he is trying to instill in Liverpool but also played some great football. When they twice outclassed us at Anfield, people were drooling over them, and that's what convinced the board to go for Rafa.

The idea that rotation is to blame is also revisionist and discounts that the last two league champions made about the same number of changes as Benitez over the course of a season, playing their key, first team and squad players for roughly the same number of games as well.

I think the two biggest problems we have are a lack of strength in depth compared to our rivals and a lack of confidence in the team. One can make up for the other, as when you are low on confidence but have more quality players on the pitch than your opponents, you can sneak a result, and when you are low on quality but have high confidence, you can ambush stronger teams.

When you've got neither you're in trouble, and with the specific injuries we are currently carrying, combined with a run of poor results draining the confidence, that's where we are now. I don't really blame the manager for that, as I think he has strengthend the squad every year he's been here and has shown he is capable of instilling the confidence in the team to perform on the day and beat better teams to trophies. The only way out of a rut like this, with no chances of getting the players back that we are missing in the short term, is tactical preparation and bloody hard work. I think we have the right man for the job there. You won't do it by telling the team to go out and attack like stink: we would just get sucker-punched.

Would I like us to play more attacking football? Undoubtedly. But the great attacking teams are built on a solid defence. We have that, but we are lacking quality in attacking areas. I think the manager is trying to address this, as the signings of Torres, Babel and Benayoun indicate, but when you look at the money we spent on these and the gulf in class we still have against our rivals, you realise the enormity of the job.

The Mancs were outstanding last year and are coming good this year, but that was at the expense of three poor seasons spent rebuilding the team. Arsenal are outstanding this year, and yet that's at the expense of three poor seasons rebuilding the team, during each of which they were outperformed by us. I wonder if anyone wanting Rafa sacked would have the mental strength to sit through three years of worse performances whilst our squad was rebuilt? The point is he's trying to do it whilst maintaining or improving our position in the league and bringing in silverware, which will take longer.

Some will argue that with the money he has had to spend we could have done better. Here's a challenge: show me the players he could have bought on the same budget, who were available at the right time, as evinced by moving clubs, who would have improved us all that much. I'll give you Anelka, but everyone was happy with Morientes at the time.

The man will get results if given time and patience. Back him.

[ivor_the_injun]

Top, top post. The points about Man U and Arsenal rebuilding in response to Chelsea's sudden emergence are particularly spot on.

[Emerald Red]

Liverpool fans are to loyal to start getting on the back of the mananger, so it's pretty obvious we'll be continuing to play this style of football until the board realise Benitez isn't the right man for Liverpool and finally appoint a footballing manager, who also shows some passion for Liverpool Football Club. Paul Jewell and Sammy Lee as our new number 1 and 2. Bring back the scousers.

Paul Jewel and Sami Lee, you're taking the p*ss, right?

In hindsight, we went to Blackburn yesterday, who are a very industrious team and are on top form. We gave them nothing! No space to play, and when they did get a chance (I think there was only one clear chance for them) they hit the post. Other than that and the effort that crashed under Reina's bar, they created nothing at home. We are starting to play better now. Our passing is improving, and for long periods of the game, we controlled the game, and if not for Kuyt's strange decision making in front of goal, we should have won. Crouch had one saved off the line, Babel had one parried, as did Gerrard twice. We had the chances to score. Credit to Blackburn, they defended well, and let's not also forget we had several key players out that would have made the difference for us yesterday.

There's a reason why we are playing static football at the moment and that is there are too many defensive minded mid fielders and no true wingers. In fact, when Harry came on the pitch, it showed just what we are lacking. He looked our best player. It's time Rafa realizes that Momo, Mascherano, Gerrard in the middle is not a great combination. They boy Lucas is known to have a good eye for goal, get's forward and can pass the ball at least four feet in front of him. He's a neat player and should be getting picked ahead of Sissoko imo. He offers us more threat. Babel should be played up front, seeing that Kuyt isn't up to the job of actually pulling the trigger, or showing that he can actually hit a ball over 10mph.

There is a lot of dead wood that is now apparent in this side that Rafa has built. Even though Crouch is looking our best option at front at them moment, he is not good enough. Kuyt is not good enough. Pennant isn't good enough. Benayoun isn't either. And if it's true that Sissoko was valued at 11 million in the summer, then that's the fault of Rafa for not taking that money and using it to spend it on a true wold class winger.

If Owen has a 6 million buy out in his contract, he should be bought. He'd certainly score more goals than either Crouch or Kuyt this season, and maybe that's their tally added together.

[kazza]

I think that the difference between us and Utd and Arsenal is that they (especially Arsenal) are playing with a lot of confidence and we are not. We kept a clean sheet against a team that have been finding the net on a regular basis and they were playing at home. Had we had a little more composure in front of goal (confidence again) we could have scored three. Then every one would be saying "wow three nil, now that is attacking football".

I am not second guessing the manager for his tactics because as far as I am concerned he knows better than me, I am worried about when will we start playing with confidence. Nothing that a couple of wins won't cure!

[Scottbot]

I wasn't bored by todays game mate, bit disappointed with our play but not bored. I don't think we are that far off playing well at the moment. A bit more creativity in the final third , a bit more pace up front and a bit more snap in our passing and we will be up and running.

Think back to a few games ago, we couldn't pass, players were like statues, all we had to offer was hard work and effort, and even the effort didn't seem that great.

I think we are gradually getting back on track. While I appreciate Blackburn didn't try to pressurise us on the ball today and were quite happy to let us pass it about, we showed signs that our confidence is starting to come back.

I think Rafa made a big big mistake not buying a winger instead of Babel. Kewell did nothing out of the ordinary, just held the ball well passed ok and got a few decent crosses in, but the difference in our play was clear for anyone to see.

Babel may turn into a great player one day (unlikely I know but possible) but we have been crying out for a decent winger, and Babel is just not good enough as a winger. If a cameo from a half fit Kewell can have that sort of impact, just think if we had signed Mancini or Maluda.

I thought Mascherano had a great game again, but I think our fullbacks suffered without Alonso's quick passes. Or maybe it was Blackburns game plan to snuff out our fullbacks?

I agree about Kuyt, he certainly proved that he's not good enough to play the main striker, and that its not because he has been playing too deep that he doesn't score.

The only time Kuyt offered any threat or looked comfortable was when he dropped back into his usual position. Having said that, why did we keep chipping balls up to him all the first half? He never won a ball in the air so why keep doing it?

Nah mate I wasn't bored, I wasn't exactly thrilled either, but it will come.

Pretty much echoes my thoughts Saint. For 70 minutes it wasn't great, it was scrappy and we were fortunate to go in at half-time level. As soon as Kewell and Crouch came in we were able to retain possession, press a little higher up the pitch and get Gerrard more involved in the final third.

Positives from this game:

- We didn't lose any ground on the mancs/Arsenal

- Gerrard was excellent once again

- Kuyt's ineptitude in front of goal surely will havre convinced Rafa to give Crouch the spell he deserves? (please)

- Kewell looked lean, fit and confident on his return to Premiership football

- It's still an improvement on the way we have been playing recently plus Rovers are unbeaten against 3 of the big 4 at home this season.


Negatives:

- Once again the side played without any real conviction UNTILL the last 20 minutes when it became clear we were not going to simply sneak a goal.

- Selection of Kuyt as a lone frontman, i really don't know what Rafa is thinking? Totally mystified. He doesn't have any of the attributes required to play the position, he's not the greatest at holding the ball up, doesn't offer a threat in the air and is not mobile or quick enough to offer much of a threat in behind.

- Movement within the side is not up to it, too many players standing still, too many dead-end balls towards the channels and not enough options for the man on the ball and we are not moving the ball quickly enough.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

I may of been joking when I said Jewell and Lee, but only to a certain extent. Those 2 would show more passion for Liverpool getting a throw in than Benitez shows for winning the european cup. I think it's what's really missing from the club right now. Lets be honest since the last scouser (david moores) involved with the way the club is run left, look at the performances we've been turning out. Speaking as a scouser, i have a bias towards my own, but it does make me wonder. Shankly always had Joe Fagan and Roy Evans, as did Paisley and Dalglish. Souness let Phil Thompson go and we ended up delivering dross. Evans played as good a level of football Liverpool have played for the last 15 years (scouse), Houiller had Thompson and Lee on the bench and we certainlly moved in the right direction for a while. Benitez won the european cup when Moores was there. Moores leaves, no scouse connection in the way the club is run and look at the state of our football. Worth considering.

[Kharhaz]

Rafa had an assistant, he is currently lacking one. Nothing to do with scouse connection just someone to put in there two pennies worth on the decisions made by the manager.

[Scottbot]

I may of been joking when I said Jewell and Lee, but only to a certain extent. Those 2 would show more passion for Liverpool getting a throw in than Benitez shows for winning the european cup. I think it's what's really missing from the club right now. Lets be honest since the last scouser (david moores) involved with the way the club is run left, look at the performances we've been turning out. Speaking as a scouser, i have a bias towards my own, but it does make me wonder. Shankly always had Joe Fagan and Roy Evans, as did Paisley and Dalglish. Souness let Phil Thompson go and we ended up delivering dross. Evans played as good a level of football Liverpool have played for the last 15 years (scouse), Houiller had Thompson and Lee on the bench and we certainlly moved in the right direction for a while. Benitez won the european cup when Moores was there. Moores leaves, no scouse connection in the way the club is run and look at the state of our football. Worth considering.

Think you're clutching at straws there to be honest mate. It's all a bit tenous and it's also worth noting that although Souness cut Thompson loose, he did actually bring in Sammy Lee as replacemtn for the coahing staff and still we were tripe.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Yeah I know but lets not mention that