Liverpool FC Forum

[Rush Job]

Yep, I agree S@int.

But at the same time it's encouraging that even given the troubles he's experiencing to have financial help from the yanks he doesn't fúck off and leave, Rafa wouldn't lack offers. Which somehow tells me that he must not see the goal of winning the league very far from the point and squad we have at the moment.

You know, I know that's a happy clappy feeling, but I do feel it.

Well he's only got a year left and is desperate to have a decent crack at the prem to try and save his job, ( cant remember exact quote,more or less ) " if i win the league the fans will make sure i get a new deal " , he's desperate to stay and see the fruits of his labours ( youth ) start to come though.

[bigmick]

I've had my doubts about the manager over the years (surprise surprise) and think he's spent too much time, money and effort trying to build two teams rather than one. That said, to ask him to address and correct that situation with relatively little amounts of money, in one closed season and still launch a title challenge, is an extremely tall order IMHO. 

I do think it's sensible given we already had Riise, Aurelio and Insua to sell one of them if you are going to buy another left back. You can't just collect players, and I think we've possibly done a little too much of that in the past. Similarly, I would think it possible that we'll sell a right back now we've brought Deggan in, and assuming we are going to get another striker then selling Crouch (as he was the one worth money who wasn't in the team) is/was fair enough. At some point though there surely has to be an investment in the team over and above what the manager can rustle up in sales? 15-20 million quid stuck in on top of the car boot sale proceeds ought to be a minimum I would have thought if we are serious about getting properly in the mix.

I actually don't totally believe the stories if I am honest. Rafa is no fool and telling everyone we are skint is a good way of getting a mill or two off the prices of Barry and Keane. If we can manage to do that, we ought to be able to just about balance the ledger on the three or four million we lost by allowing Crouch's contract to run into it's final year.

My prediction is that barring injuries, our team for the opening league game of the season at Sunderland will be this:

                                                         Reina

                                       Arbeloa   Carragher Agger Dossena

                                       Kuyt       Gerrard  Masherano  Barry

                                                 Keane 
 
                                                        Torres

I also think and am happy to go on record as saying, this team if played on a regular basis (which it will be) will go extremely close to winning the Premiership.

[Kharhaz]

I actually don't totally believe the stories if I am honest. Rafa is no fool and telling everyone we are skint is a good way of getting a mill or two off the prices of Barry and Keane.

That makes sense to me. If we dont have much money to spend why have someone like David Villa on a list of potential players? To get him you have to outspend teams like chelsea and united at least.

[banana]

i have read som of the posts in here and I'm absolutely shocked by the lack of knowledge and wisdom of some people. I suppose they're just "kids" after all so why should I even care?

There should always be some facts presented in any debate:

1. We are only making 50% of what Man Utd are making.
2. We are also far behind Arsenal and Chelsea.
3. Teams like West Ham Spurs, Man C, Newcastle among others are level with us financially
4. Money talks. Being mad about Benitez missing out on the premiership for the last 4 years is insane. Abramovich has bought the league 2 of those 4 years. Benitez first year was all about cleaning up and replacing a abysmalk squad full of Diaos, Dioufs, Henchozs, Murphys, Kirklands, Cheyrous, Diomedes, Tallecs,,,,,,,,,,,

Benitez has performed miracles with limited funds. Making extremely sound judgements. Building for the future and for the present. Getting the best youth team in England. Buying young hungry players with bags of potential. Ok, there have been some Kuyts and Pennants but overall he has been getting quality for his money and he has made really good progress over the last few years. Just face it. We can beat any team these days. When he came here we were miles behind the cream of europe. Like it or not.

[Fo Dne]

Thought i'd bang this in here.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpo....1321351


Rafa Benitez on the attack

Jul 10 2008
Liverpool manager Rafa Benitez with his new signing Phillipp Degen

Liverpool manager Rafa Benitez with his new signing Phillipp Degen _320

Rafael Benitez has promised there will be at least one new big-name striker at Liverpool before the start of the season but admits he has no idea when the Gareth Barry saga will be concluded.

The Liverpool boss has admitted his exasperation at the drawn-out campaign to prise Barry from Aston Villa, which shows no sign of ending.

And the Spaniard has also revealed the growing financial problems he is having in the transfer market.

He admits that Tottenham skipper Robbie Keane is a target, but although he is also a big fan of Valencia and Spain striker David Villa, a move seems unlikely.

Benitez unveiled two new full-backs today, Swiss international Philipp Degen and £6million Italian defender Andrea Dossena, and expects to formally announce a £3million deal for Brazilian goalkeeper Diego Cavalieri in the near future.

But it has become increasingly obvious that Benitez is working with a much smaller budget than was expected at the end of last season when figures of £25-30million were being suggested as a potential kitty.

He admitted: "We know the situation regarding what we can spend, and we are trying to find solutions if we do not have enough money.

"And we will still try to sign players that will make us better. But if you do not have too much money, and that is clear, we will have to have a little bit of imagination to progress in the market.

"Everyone knows what our ideas are and what players we want. We are working hard with different names now, and at the moment that is not (David) Villa.

"We will have another main striker before the season starts, maybe two."

He added: "We had our ideas at the end of the season. We have tried to use players to raise money for business in the past, sometimes selling players who have not settled down.

"This summer it is very much the same idea. We know we will have to sell some players if we want some cash. So we have to do that.

"The fans must trust us, we are working hard during the summer with a lot of people in different countries working for us.

"We have a new keeper. And we are looking for a lot of players for the right price.

"Now if we want to spend we can do it. But we have to be careful what we do spend."

There have been rumours for weeks that Benitez is working with very little money, although sources insist that he can complete the deal for Barry without selling Xabi Alonso.

That deal - with Juventus - has also gone cold and Benitez revealed: "The situation with Alonso has not changed.

"Juventus made an offer that was not good enough and now we are just waiting. I do not know, really, whether that will go through.

"Xabi wants to stay because he is happy here but he also knows that Juventus is a top side. I have talked to him, he knows my ideas and he knows why. So we will try to find a solution for him, for us, and the best for the club."

Liverpool have been linked continually with Irish striker Keane.

Benitez said: "David Villa is one of the players on our list, but at this moment I do not see it being an option for us.

"Keane is also one of the names we are interested in, and we are still working on other possible situations.

"There has been some contact (over Keane) but we will have to see how things progress."

On Villa, he added: "We know he is a very good player, we know the price, and we know the players we have. At this moment he is not our target.

"We are still waiting on Gareth Barry. I prefer now not to say anything and to wait."

Sources at the club claim the price for the Villa midfielder could have risen above the £18million the midlanders’ manager Martin O’Neill was believed to want.

There is a growing frustration at Anfield with the continual shifting of the position, and the elimination from the deal of several Reds players who initially interested Villa, but who are now not on O’Neill’s wishlist.

And now the fact that Barry is banned from Villa’s training ground and has already missed a week of vital pre-season work is also worrying Liverpool and could, it is claimed, affect their willingness to meet Villa’s demands regarding the fee.

With Aston Villa away at a Swiss training camp, and Liverpool soon to be in the same country next week at their own base, the conclusion of the Barry saga looks some way off.

Liverpool have announced the signing of 17-year-old Dutch forward Vincent Lucas Weijl.

The teenager, who came through the academy at AZ Alkmaar, has signed a three-year deal and will go into the reserves squad.

What I will say is finally he's going for the right type and quality of players.

Keane, Barry and Villa would be superb additions. As would Silva. IF we could get those four players I would be very confident we could mount a serious challenge.

Keane would compliment Torres, Villa would offer goals if Torres was out (although VERY different) and Barry would bring some alround steel into the side, obviously Silva would bring the flair.

[Kharhaz]

i have read som of the posts in here and I'm absolutely shocked by the lack of knowledge and wisdom of some people. I suppose they're just "kids" after all so why should I even care?

Quite an insult to the posters from someone who cannot recognise that "i" should be "I" as in a word in its own right and the fact that "som" should have an "e" on the end. I can abide kids, its stupid people I cannot abide.

[account deleted by request]

"We will have another main striker before the season starts, maybe two."

I just hope he gets quality not quantity, hopefully it will mean Voronin is on his way as well.

[red37]

i have read som of the posts in here and I'm absolutely shocked by the lack of knowledge and wisdom of some people. I suppose they're just "kids" after all so why should I even care?

Quite an insult to the posters from someone who cannot recognise that "i" should be "I" as in a word in its own right and the fact that "som" should have an "e" on the end. I can abide kids, its stupid people I cannot abide.

You don't have to be deemed stupid in making the odd error composing a post mate. It happens.

[Kharhaz]

i have read som of the posts in here and I'm absolutely shocked by the lack of knowledge and wisdom of some people. I suppose they're just "kids" after all so why should I even care?

Quite an insult to the posters from someone who cannot recognise that "i" should be "I" as in a word in its own right and the fact that "som" should have an "e" on the end. I can abide kids, its stupid people I cannot abide.

You don't have to be deemed stupid in making the odd error composing a post mate. It happens.

And your not deemed a "kid" because somebody has views that are priority to them.

[red37]

i have read som of the posts in here and I'm absolutely shocked by the lack of knowledge and wisdom of some people. I suppose they're just "kids" after all so why should I even care?

Quite an insult to the posters from someone who cannot recognise that "i" should be "I" as in a word in its own right and the fact that "som" should have an "e" on the end. I can abide kids, its stupid people I cannot abide.

You don't have to be deemed stupid in making the odd error composing a post mate. It happens.

And your not deemed a "kid" because somebody has views that are priority to them.

The intellectual content of a posters opinion is neither here nor there. I'm stating that, in producing a grammatical mistake or two - that alone does not decide whether or not said poster is infact 'stupid'

Anyway...

[Kharhaz]

i have read som of the posts in here and I'm absolutely shocked by the lack of knowledge and wisdom of some people. I suppose they're just "kids" after all so why should I even care?

Quite an insult to the posters from someone who cannot recognise that "i" should be "I" as in a word in its own right and the fact that "som" should have an "e" on the end. I can abide kids, its stupid people I cannot abide.

You don't have to be deemed stupid in making the odd error composing a post mate. It happens.

And your not deemed a "kid" because somebody has views that are priority to them.

The intellectual content of a posters opinion is neither here nor there. I'm stating that, in producing a grammatical mistake or two - that alone does not decide whether or not said poster is infact 'stupid'

Anyway...

I find it more sensible to show the imperfections of a would be WUM rather than to join them in a slanging match, in this case, the arguments raised for one party is that he is dealing with minds of adolescents, A mind he criticizes as to being lesser than his own and trying to gain the other hand, I simply pointed out how similar his mind is to a "kids" mind.

[Rush Job]

i have read som of the posts in here and I'm absolutely shocked by the lack of knowledge and wisdom of some people. I suppose they're just "kids" after all so why should I even care?

Quite an insult to the posters from someone who cannot recognise that "i" should be "I" as in a word in its own right and the fact that "som" should have an "e" on the end. I can abide kids, its stupid people I cannot abide.

You don't have to be deemed stupid in making the odd error composing a post mate. It happens.

And your not deemed a "kid" because somebody has views that are priority to them.

The intellectual content of a posters opinion is neither here nor there. I'm stating that, in producing a grammatical mistake or two - that alone does not decide whether or not said poster is infact 'stupid'

Anyway...

I find it more sensible to show the imperfections of a would be WUM rather than to join them in a slanging match, in this case, the arguments raised for one party is that he is dealing with minds of adolescents, A mind he criticizes as to being lesser than his own and trying to gain the other hand, I simply pointed out how similar his mind is to a "kids" mind.

You wouldnt let it lie.

[banana]

i have read som of the posts in here and I'm absolutely shocked by the lack of knowledge and wisdom of some people. I suppose they're just "kids" after all so why should I even care?

Quite an insult to the posters from someone who cannot recognise that "i" should be "I" as in a word in its own right and the fact that "som" should have an "e" on the end. I can abide kids, its stupid people I cannot abide.

You don't have to be deemed stupid in making the odd error composing a post mate. It happens.

And your not deemed a "kid" because somebody has views that are priority to them.

The intellectual content of a posters opinion is neither here nor there. I'm stating that, in producing a grammatical mistake or two - that alone does not decide whether or not said poster is infact 'stupid'

Anyway...

I find it more sensible to show the imperfections of a would be WUM rather than to join them in a slanging match, in this case, the arguments raised for one party is that he is dealing with minds of adolescents, A mind he criticizes as to being lesser than his own and trying to gain the other hand, I simply pointed out how similar his mind is to a "kids" mind.

You wouldnt let it lie.

So what. If I made a mistake writing "i" where I should have written "I". That is surely really important.

And "kids"; yes I suspect that there are a lot of kids writing in this forum. Thay have probably not so much knowledge as the older posters. I don't think a 13 year old know as much as I do about Liverpool. What is wrong with stating the obvious?

It is crazy to read some of these posts. So little wisdom and so little understanding of the game and the financial aspect of it.

Bored with Benitez you are. But you loved Evans, Souness and Houllier I suppose?

[JoeTerp]

ok back to the Benitez and limited funds thing. I would thing if we really were in a a great depression of sorts at the club with zero money given by the owners (almost impossible I know) we could still make off well because of how many assets we have.

Unless Dossena turns out to be a total flop in pre-season, I think we can get away with selling Aurelio (which I know wont bring in a lot of cash, but we are desperate at the moment apparently). That would leave us with record defensive signing Dossena, shut down Messi playing out of position in his first game with the club Arbeloa, and U 20 world cup champion Insua as Left back options. I would hope that would be adequate.   

This also means that we could sell Finnan for a few scraps leaving liverpool through and through Carra, Arbeloa, and Degen as the three possible options with Arbeloa getting the majority of the games (unless Degen turns out to be more than expected, which I suddenly and for no good reason have some decent hopes for these days)

If we stick with a formation that is at the very least a close cousin to the one we played last season, I cannot see Pennant making an impact on the team. Especially with Crouch gone, the need for a winger to bomb in the crosses all day long is not that necessary. Plus Rafa really likes whatever it is that Kuyt brings to that right side. And for me it was down to one of pennant or yossi leaving, and although I do rate pennant, and he bring something to the team that not really anybody else does, yossi is more versatile and more adept to the way we played at the end of the season (his move that created Torres goal at the bridge). If Bently gets sold, I think Pennant to Blackburn could be some decent business (anyone fancy santa cruz ? think he would be a brilliant 3rd striker to have after Torres and Keane. 

And I don't think we need a 4th striker, so sell Voronin for a bag of crisps. if things get desperate we could have Babel and Kuyt as 4th and 5th.

Now the central midfield conundrum. It looks like Barry is coming and that we are going to get effed on the price tag, although I hope we don't. Which SURELY MUST MEAN that someone in the central midfield has to leave. It ain't gonna be Gerrard or Mascherano. The obvious answer points to Xabi, but Bigmick has recently brought up Lucas.  Considering that either one of them would most likely start most games on the bench watching masch, gerrard and barry, then it makes sense to sell the one you can get the most money for, which is Xabi. Although Xabi offers more than lucas, the difference between quality is minimized by the fact that either way they will have less time on the pitch to show it, so you might as well get the best value.  A part of me think we can get away with selling both. If in a pinch, we can play with two CM with any two out of Barry, masch and gerrard being able to form a good enough partnerhsip to work together in something like a 4-4-2. If masch got hurt, I would think Plessis would take his place over Xabi or Lucas anyway because he is more defensive minded. If Barry went down, other than switching to a masch gerrard in the middle, you could play Guthrie.  Don't laugh at that. Guthrie was in a bolton squad that drew 2-2 at the Allianz against Bayern Munich, and he was in the team that beat Manchester United. He played in 25 league games last year and that was after going the first two months without getting a chance. If we are going to sell Xabi anyway, and we have open competition for the CM spot after Gerrard, masch and Barry, I think Guthrie would beat out Lucas from a fit for the league viewpoint.  And if Lucas is going to be that far down the pecking order, might as well get 7 or 8 for him.

to recap:
To sell:
Riise         4
Crouch      9
Finnan      2
Aurelio      3? 4? 5?
Pennant     5? 6?
Voronin      3?
Xabi         13
Lucas        7
Carson      5
Itandje      2
Total:      50-55ish


Dossena:      7
Barry:         18
Cavalieri      3
Youngsters (all combined):   2

Just enough for about a 20M player like a Robbie Keane, but if there was even 10M in the bank we could get David Villa instead if that what we wanted.

[NANNY RED]

Nice little insight into what Rafas thinking for next season here

Rafa Benitez looking to the wings for answer to title prayers

Jul 11 2008 Ian Doyle



WHILE the Beatles have once again commanded the attention in Liverpool this week, for Rafael Benitez the focus has been on wings.

As his team suffered a second successive season without a trophy, the Anfield manager earmarked the flanks as a major area for improvement.

The end result of months of hard work scouring the market was officially unveiled yesterday when full-backs Philipp Degen and Andrea Dossena were presented to the media at Melwood.

Switzerland international Degen, a 25-year-old right-back, was snapped up on a free transfer from German Bundesliga outfit Borussia Dortmund.

Dossena, meanwhile, has made a £6million move from Serie A side Udinese with the 26-year-old becoming the first ever Italian international to pull on a Liverpool shirt.

Benitez expects both to provide serious competition for places in defence while allowing greater flexibility going forward down the flanks, and provide another dimension to the team.

"We want to use two or three systems during the season," says the Anfield manager. "The key isn’t the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn’t matter if it’s 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it’s the role of the players that counts.

"At the beginning of last season we were doing well with 4-4-2, so if the players can read the game and understand things, then it’s easier to change the system.

"Now we have more options at full-back, with Degen, Finnan and Arbeloa on one side and Dossena, Aurelio and Insua on the other. We have players with different qualities.

You can’t use too many systems – two or three maximum – and the key is to teach the players how to adapt to each system.

"We will continue looking for good players but not necessarily a ‘proper’ winger. We’ll look for good players and maybe adjust the system. Don’t forget, we have some very good players here already, players we have signed over the last 12 months."

Benitez admits the high cost of bringing recognised top-class wingers to the club had forced Liverpool to be creative in the market.

"We knew we were creating a lot of chances last season but everybody was talking about the wide areas," he says. "If you go to the market and want to sign a top-class right-winger, they will be in the top sides and the price will be crazy. To sign two full-backs with an offensive mentality can give us more quality out wide."

While Degen will take the number 27 shirt, Dossena has been assigned the number 2 shirt most recently occupied by Alvaro Arbeloa.

The left-back, a direct replacement for John Arne Riise, who has made the move in the opposite direction by swapping the Premier League for Serie A by joining Roma for £4m, comes with a fearless reputation after twice being sent off last season.

And Dossena reckons his "half English, half Italian" mentality can help him settle into his new surrounds.

"Even from training, I realise English football is different," he says. "It’s all about possession and the ball seems to move quicker.

There is also a great determination among the players in training, but these are all qualities that are characteristic of me too. In this way, I feel half English, half Italian.

"Of course I’ll feel very strong emotions when I wear the shirt at Anfield for the first time but after the first few seconds these will be replaced by a focus on what I am doing."

Dossena was particularly impressed by Liverpool’s run in the Champions League last season, and one victory in particular. I must admit I enjoyed their win over Inter Milan in the European Cup last season," he says. "And I definitely believe this team can challenge for the title. I believe Liverpool played the best football in Europe last season."

Dossena adds: "I have been very impressed with the facilities and also with the very good atmosphere in the dressing room.

"The talks I have had with Benitez have mostly been about tactics. He has explained that he wants a four-man defence but that the most important thing is that the balance on the pitch is never broken. There must be balance between the left and right-backs."

Dossena earned his so far only cap for Italy against South Africa last October, and believes his move to Anfield can help his international ambitions.

"The Premier League is followed and it will be up to the national manager to watch the players abroad," he says. "I am aware, though, that I am at the most prestigious team in England. There are other players who play abroad who are getting caps, like Luca Toni."

Both Degen and Dossena will hope to follow in the footsteps of Fernando Torres, who capped a magnificent campaign at Anfield by netting the winner for Spain in their European Championship final against Germany in Vienna last month.

And Benitez believes Liverpool can reap the benefits of the striker’s summer experience.

"We knew about the mentality and quality of Torres," he says. "Some people in the Spanish press were criticising him during the tournament, so I was really pleased when he got he goal in the final.

When you have players winning trophies, that’s important for their mentality. Sometimes you can see a good player who isn’t winning trophies, and you have doubts about his mentality. Now the Spanish players have shown they can win trophies.

"Here, a lot of players are new or young, and they need to give something more to show they have that mentality."