Liverpool FC Forum

[JBG]

Like many here, I sat through 90 minutes of turgid football yesterday as Liverpool and Bolton served up a sorrow excuse for Premiership football.

Both teams struggled to control the ball, the passing was terrible and both looked clueless in attack.

Hell, the dozens of plastic bags and crisp bags that blew onto the pitch provided sharper movement as the wind caught them!

I thought Liverpool deserved a draw and thought Sam Allerdyce was a bit cheeky in saying his side deserved the win.

However, in other ways, we deserved and got nothing for the pitiful and incompetent way we played the game.

We were ok in defence, despite Hyppia's injury, and I though some fans have unfairly picked on Djimi Traore, who I thought had a reasonable game.

Josemi was beaten by Pederson on the wing in a move that led to the goal, but overall I though Josemi played well and although it is early stages yet, it would appear that he will solve our right back problem.

Dudek made a decision to attack the low cross but was foiled by Stelios legitimate lunge and the rest of the defence stood flatfooted as Davies picked up the ball and whipped it home. Aside from that our defence was ok.

The real problem was in midfield and attack. We had no shape and Benitez made his first real mistake in playing Gerrard on the flanks. He is not alone in making this, as both Houllier and Erickson have done this in the past. I think these managers have erred doing this, however. Just because Gerrard can do a fairly decent job out wide doesn’t necessarily mean that we take him out the place where he does most damage, i.e. the engine room. I’m sure Patrick Vieira could do an ok job on the flanks as well but you don’t see Arsene Wenger playing him there when the Gunners have injury problems. Gerrard also has a problem in that he attacks ball in the box from the left hand side with his right foot, meaning that he often hits his volleys into the ground, volleys he would be better off trying with his left. That’s a minor problem though compared with his passing. When he is out on the left he tries to send long searching balls with the outside of his right boot towards the attacker coming in from the right flank. These balls are very easy to defend and countless of times Campo and others headed them to safety.

I think Gerrard is a great player but I have said this before and I will stand by it, he is very far from the finished article. He lacks savvy and is too eager to hit a killer ball with almost every touch. Benitez has identified this problem and has said that Gerrard has to be more economical and smarter with his use of the ball. Stevie has a lot more talent than Roy Keane but Keane’s possession game is still superior to Gerrard’s long racking passes. These passes are great when they work out and look good on Match of the Day but nine times of ten Gerrard unnecessarily yields possession. A lot of people here blamed Danny Murphy for wasting possession last year but the number one culprit is Gerrard, and that is the one area of his game that he really needs to work on.

Didi Hamman had a game to forget yesterday as well as he looked unsure when in possession and hit too many long and straight forward passes to the front men which simply ran on to the goalkeeper. Alonso had an ok debut but it was clear he lacked understanding with Gerrard and Hamman. Garcia got a shock in the first half as he was denied space to show his skills, space he invariably got in Spain. I almost felt sorry for the guy as every time he got possession you could see he had something smart in mind but was instantly crowded out by two or three Bolton players. Welcome to the Premiership Garcia! In truth Garcia improved as the game wore on and got into the pace of it, and towards the end showed flashed of genuine ability. He was denied a perfectly valid goal but at least he has shown that he is capable of getting into scoring positions, which is encouraging.

Baros had a frustrating game, often being selfish in possession, but in fairness to him and also to Cisse, the service was terrible.

It was a bad game and a bad performance, but the reaction from many fans has me flabbergasted.

Benitez has only been here a few months and already some are suggesting we made a mistake. Its funny, because last week on this very website many people were saying that Benitez would win us the league this year and that in Alonso, Gerrard, Nunez and Garcia, we would have the best midfield in the Premiership!

Two bad results (one of which was ultimately meaningless) in a week and suddenly we have made a mistake!

It just confirms my opinion that many people really don’t understand football at all.

We have changed manager and coaching staff, and are trying to rebuild a side in a short period of time. New players have come in to crucial positions. It won’t happen over night.

THERE WILL BE ANOTHER FEW BAD DEFEATS BEFORE THE ONSET OF WINTER. GET USED TO IT. WE WON’T WIN THE LEAGUE THIS YEAR EITHER, GET USED TO THAT ALSO.

Benitez needs and deserves time. Alonso, Garcia and Nunez will at least require 4 or 5 months to settle into England. There is no guarantee that Benitez is our messiah, but two defeats doesn’t make him a flop either.

You can’t judge Benitez on a middling start to the season. He must deliver real progress this season, we all agree on that, but he needs to be judged late next spring, not this August.

[mynameisred]

Agree 100%, now let this be the end of all this bullshine, ITS TOO FREAKIN EARLY FOR IT.

[LFC #1]

top post JBG, if only every1 here had the sense that you do.

[anfieldadorer]

I'll second that JBG, very well-said.
Looks like some people are getting too excited in replying and shouting.
Biscan was rubbish, people said he must go
Biscan a bit improved, people said Biscan "is the next Vieira"
Biscan rubbish again, people started to laugh him off again.

After the Bolton game, some other people started to have a go with many "should haves" at Rafa and blame particular players, which to me is a total disrespect. "Garcia should have not played" and other rubbish bla-bla-blas

However, in the end of the day, we are the biggest FC with the biggest fans with a to z opinions.
And to be honest, I start to understand and why we have this forum session (restricted).

[zarababe]

  Nice one JBG

[JBG]

We are all fans of a GREAT club at the end of the day and it hurts us all to lose to lowly Bolton, but some of the posts in the Main Forum asking whether we should sack Benitez are incredible.

The guy has a fantastic record and has a proven pedigree, but the job he faces is enormous.

I'm not asking people to have blind faith in him and he has already made a few small mistakes (such as "We have the best strikeforce in the Premiership" comment during the summer), but the problem with Liverpool won't be solved over night and Mr. Benitez deserves our support as he wrestles with this enormous task.

However, I have one demand of Mr. Benitez and that is that we make proper progress forward this year and he establishes the bones of a Championship winning side.

He has already spent almost £40million with more to follow and if he fails he must answer for that but 5 games into the season is not the time to be judging him.

Talk of emulating Newcastle and Southampton in sacking Robson and Sturrock as well as talk of a "Christmas Release Clause" drives me mental!

[simic_ie]

I think there i not gonna be much change from last season up until about Christmas to be honest... it'll take a while for things to be sorted out and for everyone to settle in and get used to a system... we might just have to go backwards a bit before we can go forward. But benitez is the man and he will bring us back wnere we belong imo.

[zarababe]

Yes.. JBG it is mind blowing when certain newbies on this forum .. start asking for the Boss' head... they're obvioulsy just crawled out of hibernation.. Eloquent post again..

[zackboxer]

Good post JBG, totally agree.

Anyone who suggest's getting rid of Benitez after a couple of poor games need to get back in touch with reality.
Guess they thought he'd just wave his magic wand and all would be well.....amazing.

[stmichael]

Good post jbg. Me and you tend to agree on most things and once again i think you're summary of the game is very fair.

I just wanted to say to all the armchair moaners out there who seem to think that anything less than immediate success from the new manager and his players is nothing short of a disaster, should just go jump on the Gooners bandwagon and be happy there. The EPL is a marathon not a sprint.

How long has it taken the Arss to get where they are?

How many wins have Mancs had so far?

How much have Chelski paid to get where they are?

Bolton are not as bad as a lot of people thought they would be this season!!!!

Personally I do not care if we are turning into Costa del Kop. All of Rafa’s signings looks like very good players at the very least. None of these players have played in the EPL before not only that they are playing in a new team with a new manager.

Things will get better just give it time I would rather see drastic change and a few bad results to get things right, than take another four years to go round in a circle!!

[The Manhattan Project]

It was disappointing to see us lose yesterday but no disaster.

It's early in the season, we'll probably lose more matches, but we have a new manager and a new team and it will take time. Some people will ge sold, new players will be brought it. We just have to do it slowly. We don't have infinite money like Chelsea who are trying to buy the league. We don't want to desperately try to gain success at all costs like Leeds United.

They gave Houllier six years to win the league and he still couldn't do it, so how can people talk about doom and gloom with Rafael when he hasn't even had a fraction of that time?

Manchester Utd and Newcastle Utd have had a bad start so nothing is over or settled yet.

[Dalglish]

A decent and well thought out post JBG.

The essential difference between those who post what I would call "Blame someone" posts and yours is that you have managed to speak the truth about the game and the ineptitude of the performance without judgement or a demand for punishment.

I was at the game , probably one of very few in the forum who actually attend games and my feelings were echoed in your post. I found myself observing the amount of litter strewn on the pitch cos the quality of entertainment on offer (for £38 a ticket as well) was desperate.

Bolton are a well organised outfit and I actually agreed with big Sam, they did deserve to win.

Liverpool were truly awful JBG. We couldn't pass the ball, we didn;'t seem to have a plan, Baros was annoymous in the first half and Gerard lookked well cheesed off to be stuck at right midfield second half to accommadate essentially 2 very similar players in Alonso and Hamann.

On a positive front , Garcia and Alonso had decent debuts and both looked comfortatble on the ball, particularly Alonso, Carragher was IMO our best player and Josemi impressed again.

Like the previouis Tuesday too many players failed to show. Rise ,Hamann,  Baros and Cisse all had poor games.

Finally a funny moment from the game ......"Some 75 mins into the game , Cisse attempts a 1-2 with Baros but didn't receive the ball back, to which he jumped up and down like a schoolkid angry and frustrated............ To which a Liverpool Fan shouts "What you getting frustrated about ? You have only been here 4 games , we've been here all our lives !!!

[woof woof !]

After the departure of Houllier and the eventual arrival of a 2 times la liga winner ,some people expected a bright new era to arrive with instant effect.
Naturally many are now disappointed and are venting their frustration. Calling for the Managers head after a month in charge is the extreme reaction to this dissapointment and such calls should certainly be ignored.
What cannot be ignored is that the team / squad has a helluva lot more work to do if we are to have any chance of remaining amongst the top 4-5 teams in the premiership . With vital games against Monaco and Manure just around the corner Rafa's "honeymoon" period with many fans could come to an end if the team are unable to put in some dramatically improved performances.
We've dropped more points than we've picked up and lost at home in the CL to a side that we should have brushed aside after winning the first leg 2-0 .
I agree with the sentiment that more time is necessary for everything to click into place, unfortunately time is something we are running out of .

[azriahmad]

Rafael Benithez is not from the British Isles and like anybody else, he needs some time to adjust and adept.

I fully believe that Liverpool have made a good decision by hiring him and I really believe that he will take us forward. He is a proven winner in the la liga, twice. He won his first la liga in his first season at Valencia and many believed that he will take Liverpool to the premiership immediately. People forget that he had been in Spanish football for sometime before he got to Velencia and that Valencia under Cuper reached the CL final twice, so he basically had a good squad to work with.

Liverpool have stagnated for a couple of years, playing very dour defensive football and never had a decent passing game before Benithez came. There is some rebuilding to be done, and believe it or not, Liverpool has fallen behind Arsenal, Mancs and Chelski a on a playing and financial level. For all of his criticism, Moores and Parry are trying to take Liverpool forward by hiring Benithez.

Benithez is in a new league, and although he is a winner at Valencia, he is like any human being who is on a learning curve at a foreign country. Give him some time. The Liverpool board are prepared to give him time and I think we should also give him time. Benithez also has to work with so many players who have little heart and talent and I think he is doing his best to try and take us forward.

There are some bright things - youngsters who came from the academy or the reserve squad are given opportunities and it is heartening to see Warnock being comfortable on the ball. Josemi has been a good buy, Alonso looks comfortable on the ball. Our defense need some tightening work, our forward needs to be sharper. Against Bolton, the midfield could do better. The goalkeeper is the weakest link at the moment.

I believe Benithez will do well, just give him some time and don't expect instant miracles just because he was a two time la liga winner at a Spanish club with a smaller budget than Real Madrid and Barcelona.

[fivecups]

However, I have one demand of Mr. Benitez and that is that we make proper progress forward this year and he establishes the bones of a Championship winning side.

I am happy to wait a few seasons longer for the success that we all wish for, and am sure the board see the current widespread change as a longterm investment, not a quick fix.

I agree that there must be evidence of improvement by the end of the season. We have a long way to go. The current Arsenal players are one of the best teams I've seen in my lifetime. They are clearly good enough to win the Champions League this season.

One caveat to all of the above though.

Stevie Gerrard has not looked happy or settled so far this season. If strong evidence of improvement is not apparent by January '05 he may be susceptible to the potential for success elsewhere. He said he's commited to the club over and over again but sometimes I cant help feeling he's trying to convince himself as well as ourselves.