Liverpool FC Forum

[Kharhaz]

“Winning the FA Cup wouldn’t have made any difference – it was never about an individual result. It was always about taking a review of the season in full.

“The Carling Cup and The FA Cup don’t generate the revenue" 


Well Ian Ayre has just said this.  Qualifying for Europa League and even winning two cups won't be considered a success anymore.
Its all about finishing in the top 4 for the money.

With that in mind,  should the new manager just play the kids in the cups?  The likes of Suso, Sterling, Flanno, Coady etc.
Why bother trying to win them anyways?  It won't make a difference to the company.. right?

Also, what kind of message are we sending to any potential new manager?  I find it appalling that we've gone on record and said that a cup double wouldn't save a manager from the axe.

What kind of message are we sending? One with aspirations I would have thought.

The League Cup, yes fantastic to win it, always nice to pick up a trophy, but is it the biggest? no, neither is FA Cup, lets be honest here. Compared to champions league football the FA Cup produces next to f*ck all with regards to revenue, Tv etc. Dont get me started on the Europa League, that entire competition is a p!ss take, way too many games played, at stupid times, which f*cks up our season schedule. Back to Thursday and Sunday/Monday matches, how tedious.

The message is clear from the owners, they want success, how can we stop United annihilating our league wins if we are in no position to challenge them at all? Oh united won no.20? at least we are in another league cup final ! FORGET IT. I want us challenging for the league, if any potential manager is put off by that challenge then clearly they are not good enough to be employed in the first place.

Yes we are upset about Kenny getting sacked, but the owners are looking at our performance in the league, the goals we have scored, the games we have won, our final position and have determined, over 38 games, its not good enough. And it isn't.

I am upset Kenny got the sack, but looking at the league we have to accept we haven't been good enough.

[Kharhaz]

I know that Kenny is a legend and the club owe him a lot but the sheer fact of the matter is he did not deliver in the league. I distinctly recall people muttering that Rafa should leave in 2005 as we finished 5th, despite the CL win. Legend does not mean infallible and Kenny, like all managers, is subject to scrutiny over his performances. Over £100m spent on a large amount of rubbish was his downfall. Out of all of his signings Suarez and Enrique have been the only real successes.

It's not good enough, and that's the reason he's been sacked. We need to move on from his backwards mentality that his weaknesses should be overlooked because of who he is. Forgiven - yes. Blindly ignored - no.

Kenny is too old fashioned in his thinking and if Rafa doesn't come back where he belongs I think Martinez is an awesome candidate and definitely my 2nd choice behind Benitez.

Just noticed this, welcome back Lando ! Pretty much agree with everything you have put.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

In truth I think FSG have possibly made the worst mistake they could have possibly made ,and Ian Ayre has simply heightened  the sense of
anxiety felt by supporters by publicly stating cups are now considered nothing more than a triviality ...

In all seriousness, I cant recall a club official from any club ever stating openly and for the baying media that the FA cup was no longer considered
a viable option when the success of a season is measured .

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

“Winning the FA Cup wouldn’t have made any difference – it was never about an individual result. It was always about taking a review of the season in full.

“The Carling Cup and The FA Cup don’t generate the revenue" 


Well Ian Ayre has just said this.  Qualifying for Europa League and even winning two cups won't be considered a success anymore.
Its all about finishing in the top 4 for the money.

With that in mind,  should the new manager just play the kids in the cups?  The likes of Suso, Sterling, Flanno, Coady etc.
Why bother trying to win them anyways?  It won't make a difference to the company.. right?

Also, what kind of message are we sending to any potential new manager?  I find it appalling that we've gone on record and said that a cup double wouldn't save a manager from the axe.

What kind of message are we sending? One with aspirations I would have thought.

The League Cup, yes fantastic to win it, always nice to pick up a trophy, but is it the biggest? no, neither is FA Cup, lets be honest here. Compared to champions league football the FA Cup produces next to f*ck all with regards to revenue, Tv etc. Dont get me started on the Europa League, that entire competition is a p!ss take, way too many games played, at stupid times, which f*cks up our season schedule. Back to Thursday and Sunday/Monday matches, how tedious.

The message is clear from the owners, they want success, how can we stop United annihilating our league wins if we are in no position to challenge them at all? Oh united won no.20? at least we are in another league cup final ! FORGET IT. I want us challenging for the league, if any potential manager is put off by that challenge then clearly they are not good enough to be employed in the first place.

Yes we are upset about Kenny getting sacked, but the owners are looking at our performance in the league, the goals we have scored, the games we have won, our final position and have determined, over 38 games, its not good enough. And it isn't.

I am upset Kenny got the sack, but looking at the league we have to accept we haven't been good enough.

the problem for the owners is that they have got to try and sell tickets for those cup games, what fan is going to pay top dollar to watch a cup game now?
the manager knows that winning trophies wont save his job so he`d have to be off it to risk any of his star players in a cup game.
say suarez got injured in a `pointless` game like an f.a cup semi final? something like that could cost the manager his job.

[Kharhaz]

In truth I think FSG have possibly made the worst mistake they could have possibly made ,and Ian Ayre has simply heightened  the sense of
anxiety felt by supporters by publicly stating cups are now considered nothing more than a triviality ...

In all seriousness, I cant recall a club official from any club ever stating openly and for the baying media that the FA cup was no longer considered
a viable option when the success of a season is measured .

I think Manchester United set the trend when they dropped out of it altogether.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

In truth I think FSG have possibly made the worst mistake they could have possibly made ,and Ian Ayre has simply heightened  the sense of
anxiety felt by supporters by publicly stating cups are now considered nothing more than a triviality ...

In all seriousness, I cant recall a club official from any club ever stating openly and for the baying media that the FA cup was no longer considered
a viable option when the success of a season is measured .

I think Manchester United set the trend when they dropped out of it altogether.

No sound bite though, stating how insignificant they felt their involvement in the competition would be ...seriously Kharhaz were you not the least bit
taken aback by Ayres comments ?

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

In truth I think FSG have possibly made the worst mistake they could have possibly made ,and Ian Ayre has simply heightened  the sense of
anxiety felt by supporters by publicly stating cups are now considered nothing more than a triviality ...

In all seriousness, I cant recall a club official from any club ever stating openly and for the baying media that the FA cup was no longer considered
a viable option when the success of a season is measured .

I think Manchester United set the trend when they dropped out of it altogether.

that wasnt uniteds decision, the f.a were trying to win friends and influence people over a bid for the world cup, as it turned out united got laughed at in south america and our bid got laughed at by the rest of the world

[Kharhaz]

In truth I think FSG have possibly made the worst mistake they could have possibly made ,and Ian Ayre has simply heightened  the sense of
anxiety felt by supporters by publicly stating cups are now considered nothing more than a triviality ...

In all seriousness, I cant recall a club official from any club ever stating openly and for the baying media that the FA cup was no longer considered
a viable option when the success of a season is measured .

I think Manchester United set the trend when they dropped out of it altogether.

that wasnt uniteds decision, the f.a were trying to win friends and influence people over a bid for the world cup, as it turned out united got laughed at in south america and our bid got laughed at by the rest of the world

They had a choice. World Club Championship or the FA Cup. United went with what the FA wanted, huh, that explains everything today eh?

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

They had a choice. World Club Championship or the FA Cup. United went with what the FA wanted, huh, that explains everything today eh?

according to united they didnt, apparently ferguson was fuming with the decision.
as much as i cant stand him he is a traditionalist who comes from a generation that revered the f.a cup, plus on the practical side he certainly didnt want to fly 8,000 miles to compete in a competition seen as worthless in the u.k halfway through the season.

[Kharhaz]

They had a choice. World Club Championship or the FA Cup. United went with what the FA wanted, huh, that explains everything today eh?

according to united they didnt, apparently ferguson was fuming with the decision.
as much as i cant stand him he is a traditionalist who comes from a generation that revered the f.a cup, plus on the practical side he certainly didnt want to fly 8,000 miles to compete in a competition seen as worthless in the u.k halfway through the season.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/football/384360.stm

No, they had a choice. The choice was, boost the profile of the club while gaining the favour of the FA, or compete in the FA Cup.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Tony Scott ‏@Tony_Scott11
Liverpools Ian Ayre at Aintree races tonight and is getting some uncomfortable questions from #LFC fans about Martinez

Nowhere to run ....

[Kharhaz]

Tony Scott ‏@Tony_Scott11
Liverpools Ian Ayre at Aintree races tonight and is getting some uncomfortable questions from #LFC fans about Martinez

Nowhere to run ....

So naturally its assumed the few represent the many?

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

They had a choice. World Club Championship or the FA Cup. United went with what the FA wanted, huh, that explains everything today eh?

according to united they didnt, apparently ferguson was fuming with the decision.
as much as i cant stand him he is a traditionalist who comes from a generation that revered the f.a cup, plus on the practical side he certainly didnt want to fly 8,000 miles to compete in a competition seen as worthless in the u.k halfway through the season.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/football/384360.stm

No, they had a choice. The choice was, boost the profile of the club while gaining the favour of the FA, or compete in the FA Cup.

united had no choice, the sports minister at the time tony banks told them if they didnt compete in the world club challenge then england could wave goodbye to their 2006 world cup bid, banks even said in a speech that bayern munich were on standby to take uniteds place and if that happened england could definately forget it (dont forget england and germany were the 2 favourites to get the 2006 WC)
at the last minute a new sports minister was appointed, kate hoey, and she criticised united for going, the united chairman flipped on her and the labour government telling them to sort their act out, he said the only reason we are going down there is because the previous sports minister had said a world cup in england meant billions and billions to the economy and it would be uniteds fault if the nation lost the world cup.
the fact that the world cup was now being rotated around the continents and wouldnt be back in europe for another 20 years added to the pressure on united.
david davies who was working for the f.a at the time wrote in his autobiography that ferguson was dead against going, he said ferguson even said to him that the f.a cup saved his @rse at united but the f.a piled the pressure on because hosting the world cup would have been like winning the lottery to the f.a.
they were getting it from all angles.
i dont blame united for pulling out.

[Kharhaz]

united had no choice, the sports minister at the time tony banks told them if they didnt compete in the world club challenge then england could wave goodbye to their 2006 world cup bid, banks even said in a speech that bayern munich were on standby to take uniteds place and if that happened england could definately forget it (dont forget england and germany were the 2 favourites to get the 2006 WC)
at the last minute a new sports minister was appointed, kate hoey, and she criticised united for going, the united chairman flipped on her and the labour government telling them to sort their act out, he said the only reason we are going down there is because the previous sports minister had said a world cup in england meant billions and billions to the economy and it would be uniteds fault if the nation lost the world cup.
the fact that the world cup was now being rotated around the continents and wouldnt be back in europe for another 20 years added to the pressure on united.
david davies who was working for the f.a at the time wrote in his autobiography that ferguson was dead against going, he said ferguson even said to him that the f.a cup saved his @rse at united but the f.a piled the pressure on because hosting the world cup would have been like winning the lottery to the f.a.
they were getting it from all angles.
i dont blame united for pulling out.

Pressure or not, they had a choice. The choice was Man Utds, whatever pressure was put on them. They had a choice, and looking at how things have gone since then, they chose the FA's reasoning for a reason.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

united had no choice, the sports minister at the time tony banks told them if they didnt compete in the world club challenge then england could wave goodbye to their 2006 world cup bid, banks even said in a speech that bayern munich were on standby to take uniteds place and if that happened england could definately forget it (dont forget england and germany were the 2 favourites to get the 2006 WC)
at the last minute a new sports minister was appointed, kate hoey, and she criticised united for going, the united chairman flipped on her and the labour government telling them to sort their act out, he said the only reason we are going down there is because the previous sports minister had said a world cup in england meant billions and billions to the economy and it would be uniteds fault if the nation lost the world cup.
the fact that the world cup was now being rotated around the continents and wouldnt be back in europe for another 20 years added to the pressure on united.
david davies who was working for the f.a at the time wrote in his autobiography that ferguson was dead against going, he said ferguson even said to him that the f.a cup saved his @rse at united but the f.a piled the pressure on because hosting the world cup would have been like winning the lottery to the f.a.
they were getting it from all angles.
i dont blame united for pulling out.

Pressure or not, they had a choice. The choice was Man Utds, whatever pressure was put on them. They had a choice, and looking at how things have gone since then, they chose the FA's reasoning for a reason.

no they didnt, in the real world when prime ministers, sports ministers and other members of the establishment start cranking the pressure up you dont tell them no.
ferguson is a cantanckerous arl ******* but he wasnt dealing with a few suits from the f.a this time, even he did what he was told.