Liverpool FC Forum

[Ciggy]

Liverpool's hand of friendship not taken by Ultras

ALAN PATTULLO


THE Juventus fans who had travelled up from places such as London, and who traded scarves outside Anfield while exchanging words spoken in better English than their Scouse counterparts, were not the problem.

It was those bussed from the airport towards the stadium in a flashing police cavalcade an hour before kick-off, who populated the front rows at the Anfield Road end and who responded with derision to each admittedly stage-managed and sometimes awkward attempt by the home club to appeal to the Italians’ capacity for forgiveness: these were the ones who gave cause for concern, and still do ahead of next Wednesday’s Champions League return match between Liverpool and Juventus in Turin.

In these coaches which flashed past such staunch Liverpool FC bars as the Arkles and the Albert were many of the hardcore Juve fans, and, no doubt, more than a few members of their Ultras hooligan sect, the splinter groups of which go by such menacing names as Drughi, Viking, and Nucleo. It was these gentlemen who were the target of condemnation in the Italian press yesterday, many reporters having been sickened by their boorish reaction to the ceremonies for the 39 dead of Heysel which took place at Anfield on Tuesday night.

A collection of extended middle fingers showed what some in the Juve section thought of the hand of friendship proffered by Liverpool FC, and their supporters. A wall of turned backs said everything about their contempt for this great effort at reconciliation. Hate has an eloquence of its own, and it proved powerful enough to persuade the Italian newspapers that something had to be said about the conduct of a minority who, worryingly, will only swell in numbers at the Stadio Delle Alpi next week.

The Turin-based daily La Stampa headlined its report on the Heysel tributes: "At the festival of friendship, ignorance wins." The efforts of the home club were praised, but it was reported that Juve supporters had insulted the mayor of Liverpool when he greeted them at the city’s airport. "It was to be the festival of friendship, a giant eraser to rub out the sins of the English at Heysel [but] the tribute of Liverpool to the Juventus fans became a diplomatic incident, an enormous embarrassment and, in practice, a disgrace," said the paper, adding that several Juventus supporters had been arrested at the airport.

Gazzetta dello Sport gave lengthy coverage to the Liverpool Echo’s front page apology for Heysel on Tuesday and reported the efforts of Liverpool fans to "embrace" the visiting Italians, and lamented its apparent rejection. "It was an embrace that died against a wall of indifference, which was unfortunately coloured black and white," said Gazzetta. The paper also reported the carrying of a memorial on to the field by former Liverpool and Juventus striker Ian Rush and ex-Juventus skipper Michel Platini.

"A numerous part of the 2,000 supporters from Italy, in the sector behind the goal, did not join in the spirit or the behaviour," added the paper. Corriere dello Sport welcomed the initiative taken by Liverpool: "Anfield Road offers a message to the Juventini - Friendship." It added the night was "one of thousands of sentiments and thousands of emotions, contrasting but certainly intense".

Inside the press box it was clear the spirit of friendship was at work. One reporter stood for the minute’s silence, a souvenir scarf from the match at Heysel - "Liverpool v Juventus, Brussels 1985" - held aloft. It was as if it had been kept in preparation for this occasion. Yet also kept in cold storage by some Italian fans was an obvious resentment, and the austere conviction that Juventus were a people wronged that night.

And despite the disapproval from sections of the Italian press, this show of indignation could only have been expected. Liverpool haven’t forgotten the horror of Hillsborough, nor forgiven the slack policing and the eagerness with which the Sun jumped to the wrong conclusion in the days after. In pubs around Anfield, posters are still displayed which demand the continued boycott of the tabloid by Liverpool supporters.

And perhaps it all became a little too intense this week. Not just the desperation displayed by Liverpool - the city, not simply the club - to atone, but also the fact that this communion between Liverpool and Juventus should come in such a high-octane environment as the Champions League.

It has taken 20 years for the clubs to once more compete against each other. Two matches in eight days is already proving exhausting for the pacifiers, seeking - perhaps over-ambitiously - a degree of closure. Perhaps in Turin the best one can hope for is a vague gesture of toleration for visitors who must avoid the temptation to believe the reconciliation process is complete.

"I’d imagine I might feel the same way had fans of Juventus killed my dad," said one Liverpool fan, Tony Dunn, in the streets around Anfield yesterday.

It is not only Rafael Benitez’s team who will be required to show vigilance in a testing second leg.

[Ciggy]

Liverpool fear revenge attacks in Turin

Dominic Fifield
Thursday April 7, 2005
The Guardian

Liverpool supporters have taken up only two-thirds of their allocation of tickets for next week's Champions League second leg at Juventus as fears grow that the deeply held enmity among Italian supporters over the Heysel Stadium disaster will spill over into violence.
Hardcore Juve fans greeted Liverpool's attempts to promote Tuesday's match at Anfield as a game of reconciliation with jeers, a significant section of the visiting support turning their backs on a pre-match ceremony which saw Michel Platini, Phil Neal and Ian Rush carry a banner with the message "In memory and friendship" from the Kop to the Anfield Road End. That reaction was widely criticised by the Italian media in the wake of the game, the Turin-based daily newspaper La Stampa headlining its report on the tribute: "At the festival of friendship, ignorance wins".


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"I cannot help what our fans did," said Platini, who played for Juve at Heysel in 1985. "They did what they decided they wanted to do and what they thought was best. I wanted to do what was right but I cannot help the other fans' reaction."
Italian commentators were equally dismayed that insults were thrown at the mayor of Liverpool as he attempted to welcome Italian fans arriving at the city's John Lennon international airport on Tuesday afternoon. Merseyside Police subsequently arrested 10 Italians involved in separate incidents in the city centre.

As a result, fears persist that next week's second leg will be blighted by crowd trouble, most likely outside Stadio delle Alpi. Those worries have been exacerbated by messages posted on Juve's ultra websites threatening revenge attacks as the two teams meet for the first time in a competitive fixture on Italian soil since 39 Juventus fans died after crowd trouble at the European Cup final in Brussels 20 years ago.

Liverpool fans have taken up only 2,500 of their 3,600 tickets for the second leg in a competition in which demand always exceeds allocation, with supporters urged not to travel independently with a view to purchasing a ticket - from touts or over the internet - to sit among home fans.

"Talk of Juventus fans looking for revenge is unsettling," said Richie Pedder, the chairman of the Liverpool independent supporters' club. "I just hope Liverpool fans are not allowed into the city centre of Turin on the day of the game and are then bussed in on the evening."

Each ticket distributed by the Premiership club through official channels includes a letter reminding supporters of where and where not to venture in Turin, though such warnings are standard for European matches. Indeed, other than marginally increasing the number of travelling stewards and police officers, Liverpool have not taken any special measures to step up security for the second leg. That stance has been matched by Juventus and Uefa, with both clubs and the authorities confident normal procedures should eradicate the possibility of any trouble.

"We're always concerned about safety and security for any game, so we always apply very strict rules in terms of ticketing and safety conditions in the stadium," said William Gaillard, Uefa's director of communications. "We're awaiting contact with the local police forces and this is done by our security force. For us, every game potentially could be a risk. We have taken that position for the past 20 years and I'm sure our security staff are liaising with the authorities to make sure the game takes place without incident."

[Ciggy]

Liverpool supporters deterred by threat of Turin 'revenge' attacks
By Oliver Kay



LIVERPOOL supporters have taken up only two thirds of their ticket allocation for next week’s European Cup quarter-final second-leg tie away to Juventus, amid growing fears that the hostility stemming from the Heysel stadium disaster 20 years ago may spill into violence from a hard core of Italian fanatics threatening “revenge”.



An olive branch was offered by Liverpool before Tuesday’s first leg at Anfield, but while it was gratefully accepted by the majority of Juventus supporters, a sizeable minority were seemingly unwilling to forget or forgive the actions that led to 39 deaths before the clubs met in the ill-fated final of the competition in Brussels in 1985. They made the symbolic gesture of turning their backs on an emotional pre-match ceremony, apparently to demonstrate their contempt for the efforts at reconciliation.

The reactions of that hard-line element among the Turin club’s followers have increased Liverpool’s concerns about the safety of their supporters on Wednesday. No public comment was made on the matter yesterday, but club officials are known to be worried about the threats of violence that have been made on websites by Juventus “ultras”. These messages carried threats to “break the bones of the red animals”. One of them read: “I want to see them covered in their own blood.”

Those concerns seem to be shared by a number of Liverpool supporters, with only 2,500 of the club’s 3,600 allocated tickets having been sold to members of its European Travel Club by yesterday afternoon. About 1,000 more are expected to travel independently — against the advice of the club and Merseyside Police — but even these figures are considerably lower than would be expected for a match of such magnitude for Liverpool, with demand usually far outstripping supply.

Richie Pedder, chairman of the Liverpool Independent Supporters Association, admitted yesterday that there were widespread feelings of concern after Tuesday’s first leg, during which the Barclays Premiership club recorded an impressive 2-1 victory. “Talk of Juventus fans looking for revenge is unsettling,” he said. “I just hope that Liverpool fans aren’t allowed into the city centre [in Turin] on the day of the game and that they are taken in on buses on the evening.” A more alarmist view was put forward by Nicola Bateman, a stewardess for the same supporters’ club. “I think there will be murder, God forgive me,” she said. “You can tell some of the Juventus fans are looking for trouble. The game at Anfield went well, but there was obviously still some bad feeling.”

Merseyside Police is in discussions with its Italian counterpart about measures to minimise the danger of violence inside and outside the Stadio Delle Alpi, but the number of supporters travelling independently, seemingly with the intention of buying tickets on the black market, is a source of concern.

“Given the sensitivity surrounding the first leg and the return match, we are doing all we can to ensure the safety of Liverpool fans travelling to Turin,” Chief Superintendent Dave Lewis said.

Uefa, European football’s governing body, has also expressed concerns, but said that no “special measures” would be taken beyond those advised by police. “We are always concerned about safety and security for any game, so we apply very strict rules in terms of ticketing and safety conditions in the stadium,” William Gaillard, the Uefa director of communications, said. “Our security force is liaising with the local police force and the authorities to make sure that the game takes place without incident.”

Ten people were arrested in connection with incidents in Liverpool city centre before the match on Tuesday, but, aside from the hostility of some Juventus fans, the atmosphere inside Anfield was “perfect”, Markus Studer, the Uefa deputy chief executive, said. “Liverpool must be applauded for the way they handled the arrangements and the fans of both clubs understood the message,” he said. “There was not a hint of trouble in the stadium. It was a very successful night for European football.”

On the pitch, too, it was compelling, with Liverpool leading 2-0 after a stunning first-half performance before conceding an away goal. Steven Gerrard yesterday described it as a “special result” but the captain added that “a lot of us are going to have to put in the performances of our careers in Turin. We know how hard it is going to be.”

The worry is that whatever Liverpool achieve on the pitch next week might be overshadowed by what happens on the terraces and outside the stadium. Twenty years on, the concern is that, in Italy, the lessons of Heysel have not been learnt.

[Ciggy]

The UEFA, Juventus and Liverpool must do everything in there power to make sure that our fans will be safe, I am exremely worried about next wednesday some of the stories ive heard and some forums ive read from the Ultras, are planning revenge.
I have to be honest I dont want any Liverpool supporters to go over there, I know they will but I hope them that are going only go with the clubs special arrangements.
From a night of sheer extacy on tuesday could be turned into another dreadful nightmare for our club.
We have had 2 major tradgedies already lets hope there is not going to be number 3.

[Starbridge42]

Agreed

[addicted norwegian]

I agree too. It`s a terrible thing that fear of a disaster overshadows the exitement that one normally would feel when qulifying for the top 4 in Europe is at stake. I believe now is the time to brush some dust of the old childhood prayers

[taff]

Anyone travelling should know the score and what to do and not to do.  Italy is a nightmare for football but the only good thing I can see is after the work and sincerity put in by the City and people of Liverpool and the reaction of a minority of juve fans then the authorities over there should now get their act together for the return leg and have our fans safety as a number one priority.

It will go pff guaranteed but hopefully the majority of Juve fans and policing will turn it into just another incident at a football match.

I pray nobody gets hurt badly and nobody wants a return to the bad old days

Stick together, dont get seperated and beware of ambushes and get the hell out of dodge afterwards.

Any Juve ultras reading, we understand your anger and the fact that you might always hate us but please respect the occasion and the fact that nobody over here wants any trouble

[addicted norwegian]

I pray nobody gets hurt badly and nobody wants a return to the bad old days

Stick together, dont get seperated and beware of ambushes and get the hell out of dodge afterwards.

Any Juve ultras reading, we understand your anger and the fact that you might always hate us but please respect the occasion and the fact that nobody over here wants any trouble

Well put Taff, I`ll "amen" to that

[andy_g]

Anyone travelling should know the score and what to do and not to do.  Italy is a nightmare for football but the only good thing I can see is after the work and sincerity put in by the City and people of Liverpool and the reaction of a minority of juve fans then the authorities over there should now get their act together for the return leg and have our fans safety as a number one priority.

The following is from an article in today's Guardian. seems like the authorities and powers that be plan to treat policing and security like any other game. although i think that the police taking an almost paramilitary presence would be highly inappropriate, i think that the'ye massively underestimating the situation here...

-

Each ticket distributed by the Premiership club through official channels includes a letter reminding supporters of where and where not to venture in Turin, though such warnings are standard for European matches. Indeed, other than marginally increasing the number of travelling stewards and police officers, Liverpool have not taken any special measures to step up security for the second leg. That stance has been matched by Juventus and Uefa, with both clubs and the authorities confident normal procedures should eradicate the possibility of any trouble.

"We're always concerned about safety and security for any game, so we always apply very strict rules in terms of ticketing and safety conditions in the stadium," said William Gaillard, Uefa's director of communications. "We're awaiting contact with the local police forces and this is done by our security force. For us, every game potentially could be a risk. We have taken that position for the past 20 years and I'm sure our security staff are liaising with the authorities to make sure the game takes place without incident."

[taff]

I see their point as raising police presence can increase anxiety and the feeling that its about to go off

But this aint a normal game as much as it should get treated that way.  Despite the animals reputation etc, Britain is probably the safest place to watch football in the main countries now due to historical problems etc and it still happens over here a lot more than people think.  I have had trouble in Italy and normally, although its a pain it is what happens but this time the Italians have stated their intent. 

Pray nothing happens and we all move on

[stmichael]

Unfortunately, the fact is, it *isn't* just this shadowy group of nutter fans that have failed to forgive us, it's a large number of the "normal" fans.

It's taken us 20 YEARS to offer the olive branch of friendship, even to proffer an apology of sorts. We haven't admitted culpability - something the match programme maintained on tuesday night - that was left to the Liverpool Echo's excellent front page.

I think people *should* be aware of the possible dangers of travelling to the away fixture - if they aren't careful, they'll get in trouble. Pictures like the one-armed salute are valuable in their own way, because if you'd just watched the TV coverage and news reports, you might think we were all best buddies again. Newsflash: WE AREN'T 

[7_Kewell]

lets hoe Ueffa work with the Italian police (could be a first )  and make sure our fans are escorted in and out with no fuss...it's a game and we don't want anymore pain than has already been caused by this whole thing

[RAFABENITEZ]

why the ****** do they hate us? the simple fact is that they were throwing missiles at the supporters, so they got charged at by some wound up reds and icf etc.. in retaliation, so really they have to take some of the blame. Were any reds shooting strting pistols? did we stab anyone in84? did we attack the riot squad an hour before kick off? no. end of.

[Ciggy]

http://ilmuro.mine.nu/

Ive been translating some things from here and its very scary indeed, there will be revenge, why are the authorities being so niave about it.

[7_Kewell]

because the Italian police couldn't give a flying fig about English football fans, thats why.  Also the fact that violence is common place in Italian football is not punished by Ueffa....


anyone remember the Ref getting hit with a bottle or something at a Roma match earlier in the season?