Liverpool FC Forum

[Sabre]

without rose tinted specs, that first 11 is still behind chelsea's and utds first 11.

No, IMHO the squad has less depth, but I think than in a UEFA CL semifinal you put your best over two legs to try to reach the final, and Liverpool went through.

Manchester away game was a disgrace, we played very badly, and they played better. Manchester in Anfield? Liverpool was better than them and I disagree saying that is having rose tinted spectacles.

[112-1077774096]

oops just read back and saw forlan is old news. sorry

[Sabre]

The hysterical as schoolgirls is your perception of the world and I cannot argue about how you see things.

But I can discuss about football.

No one said Alonso was cr@p but many people including myself thought that if money was tight they would prefer Eto'o, rather than buying a second rate striker and keeping Alonso.

It was said, and correct me if I'm wrong, that selling Alonso could be a blessing in disguise.

That he was less compatible with Gerrard, that wasn't necessary because we now have Mascherano, and that he might be a good coin of exchange for Eto'o.

In my view, when you include a player in a swap deal, he's a secondary player. A player you want to get rid of. A Nuñez in the Owen deal. And the facts has instead said what's the true importance of the player in Rafa's view, a five year contract. Enough said about that, I don't have to say anything more to prove my point.

I can understand the arguement of "let's have money from other places and buy Eto'o".

But Why Alonso? he's a key player. You could get easily 10M from other players, and people was wanting to sell Alonso for 20?

I don't understand. And I don't understand thinking of the benefit of the club.

[account deleted by request]

without rose tinted specs, that first 11 is still behind chelsea's and utds first 11.

No, IMHO the squad has less depth, but I think than in a UEFA CL semifinal you put your best over two legs to try to reach the final, and Liverpool went through.

Manchester away game was a disgrace, we played very badly, and they played better. Manchester in Anfield? Liverpool was better than them and I disagree saying that is having rose tinted spectacles.

4 Games you mention, and we scored 1 goal. Maybe thats why we need a quality forward

[maguskwt]

without rose tinted specs, that first 11 is still behind chelsea's and utds first 11.

No, IMHO the squad has less depth, but I think than in a UEFA CL semifinal you put your best over two legs to try to reach the final, and Liverpool went through.

Manchester away game was a disgrace, we played very badly, and they played better. Manchester in Anfield? Liverpool was better than them and I disagree saying that is having rose tinted spectacles.

but we got to remember that it's our premiership form that we need improving not CL. we're dealing with a very different class of fish when it comes to premiership teams...

man u just won the premiership and they added 3 very good players...they improved their squad...which we need to do...

I can live with our backline for now...

and the CM as well

but our wingers are right now...and in the striking department we need 1 quality striker...that's it that's all i ask for...

we need to at least bring in 1 quality striker and 1 quality winger...

right now it's just not good enough...

[account deleted by request]

The hysterical as schoolgirls is your perception of the world and I cannot argue about how you see things.

But I can discuss about football.

No one said Alonso was cr@p but many people including myself thought that if money was tight they would prefer Eto'o, rather than buying a second rate striker and keeping Alonso.

It was said, and correct me if I'm wrong, that selling Alonso could be a blessing in disguise.

That he was less compatible with Gerrard, that wasn't necessary because we now have Mascherano, and that he might be a good coin of exchange for Eto'o.

In my view, when you include a player in a swap deal, he's a secondary player. A player you want to get rid of. A Nuñez in the Owen deal. And the facts has instead said what's the true importance of the player in Rafa's view, a five year contract. Enough said about that, I don't have to say anything more to prove my point.

I can understand the arguement of "let's have money from other places and buy Eto'o".

But Why Alonso? he's a key player. You could get easily 10M from other players, and people was wanting to sell Alonso for 20?

I don't understand. And I don't understand thinking of the benefit of the club.

Alonso was mentioned because the rumours at the time were about Alonso. If they had been about Sissoko my view would have been the same.

You have proved nothing, no-one except the involved parties actually knows what deal was proposed (if any) and who turned what down. All we know is that as soon as Alonso signed his new contract we hear that Rafa is having to look downmarket for a striker and is upset again.

[Sabre]

Well I do think that to improve the squad upfront we'd have to bring a real top class player and the likes of Forlan are not this kind of players.

I also think that if it's true that the Americans are going to put serious money, we should go and sign up a top class player.

But I disagree the arguement about those games. Look the final, if Kaka wouldn't have dived , it could have been a 0-0 game easily. They scored first, we risked, they made the second and we made another one. This games, and the Chelsea and Maschester games are very leveled and often will be of few goals. I agree though, that having a Henry can give you a 1-1, instead of a 0-1 defeat.


The squad can be improved, needless to say. But bringing Eto'o won't be easy. Not only because we have competition, but because he has a contract and maybe he isn't even on the market. Same for Villa.

If it was a matter of money, many players would be playing in Chelsea right now as we speak, but it's not that easy sometimes.

You have proved nothing, no-one except the involved parties actually knows what deal was proposed (if any) and who turned what down. All we know is that as soon as Alonso signed his new contract we hear that Rafa is having to look downmarket for a striker and is upset again.

It's common knowledge you don't offer five year contracts unless you are talking about a key player or somebody you want to keep in the club. Alonso had contract until *2009* so this contract, with better wages proves the importance he has. You like it or not, you admit or not, it's irrelevant. It's common knowledge.

[GRIMM599]

Diego Forlan Anybody??

I think this (if ture) is a bad idea!

[Simari]

I agree saying that those that speculated with Alonso leaving for a swap do not deserve to be called numpty for that. I think though, that those of us that said that we believed in the quotes of the player and Rafa (Alonso said at some point he wanted the premiership, and Rafa said at some point that he wanted a long term contract) didn't deserve to be called, "biased" to Alonso, neither. We all just were giving opinions sometimes, and bringing articles to comment other times.

Some of the rumourology concerning Alonso was ridiculous though. To read 40M + Alonso or Sissoko was a joke. It's a joke because that was read in the press. When I read a poster and I disagree I just think, that's his opinion, but when I read a journalist claiming that and I realise he's paid for it, it really puts my nerves on.

So 40M + Sissoko or Alonso? That's something Barcelona would get. That's saying that Alonso has a value of 20 M or so, when yesteryear a 25M offer was rejected as ridiculous. And that's saying aswell that Alonso and Sissoko have the same value. It didn't make much sense in my view. The worst part of it, is that actually some posters, and I honestly don't remember who because it was more than 6 or 7, would see that swap with good eyes. Some statements are not just logic.

All that in the mean time that the press also stated that Alonso was making ultimatums to play the final, and in the mean time that many fans were saying that we wouldn't miss him that much.

I don't like edges, mates. When I joined here, Alonso was the Mascherano. Everything he did, it was praised. He farted, he was praised. He jumped for a ball, he was praised. It was a lil bit ridiculous the Alonso praising. In my eyes, Alonso is a tougher player now, but the same fans (not one or two, but lots) say that he's not compatible with Gerrard (which is debatable), he's weak defending, which is bóllocks and we could live perfectly without him because we now have Mascherano. I'd just like some point in the middle in the praising/slashing of the players.

Mascherano? I think he's a great player, and I'm sure once the "kid with new runners" syndrome ends, I'll be defending him from people criticising his game after 2 bad games. Now I read not from 2, but from 10 or 15 that he had Kaka in his pocket in the final. Well I saw some mistakes of him aswell, and I think others were as important to keep kaka in the pocket as him. But now he's receiving the same praises Alonso was receiving. My personal position is always to not be on an edge, and both with Alonso and Mascherano many people were on an edge.

As for the signing thingy, the people is also on an edge. One day we're going to bang Barcelona and Valencia doors and bring Eto'o and Villa, and the next day we're poorer than Charlton and all is lost.

That's why I've liked a lot The Rock's post. Because he puts in perspective a couple of things, we already have a good squad, that can be improved, but even if we don't bring Villa, the world won't be finnished.

Good post Sabre.

In my opinion, most fans quickly get bored with players who do the simple things very well (e.g. Alonso and Finnan). It is perfectly acceptable for fans to *expect* exciting football. Our problem lies in the fact that we have not seen exciting football from our wingers this season - i.e. wingers who will run at defenders, cross balls and also score goals (with the exception of Gerrard, and *maybe* Kewell if he ever remains fit for a few months at a time)

This leaves the next set of players open to criticism - our midfielders. Gerrard (again!) can rouse fans in a way that Alonso can't, and so it is Alonso who must become the scapegoat - when, in fact, he has done nothing wrong. Our defensive record is not just down to the defense, but down to Alonso protecting the area in front of them, while trying to initiate counter-attacks.

If Rafa is able to assemble his preferred choice of attacking players at LFC, we will become a lot more reasonable with our assessment of defensive midfielders like Alonso and Mascherano 

[account deleted by request]

Its common knowledge that sometimes you have to sell a "valued" player to strengthen in other areas. Like it or not. Maybe Rafa thought that was the only way to persuade Barca to part with Eto'o. FFS climb down off your high horse Sabre, I am not saying Alonso's cr@p or we wouldn't miss him, I am saying that we need a striker more than a fifth midfielder.

[babu]

'blessing in disguise' does not mean anyone thought Alonso was cr@p, sabre. Blessing in disgusie just means, overall (after some time) the team could be better off. ie better striker, more goals, more wins, but we lost Xabi.

anyhoo : FORLAN CAN KISS MY H@IRY NUT SACK (again) 

[Sabre]

That's where I disagree S@int, I'd never consider ALonso a fifth midfield man. Id think of selling Luis Garcia (a Spaniard) or Sissoko first. And we'd have a decent money for them.

As for the Simari post, Alonso isn't, as you say, the only victim of this, in the other hand, quite classic attitude of football fans around the world.

Men like Finnan, Riise, Pennant, Crouch and even Kuyt do not get the credit they deserve. In the case of Kuyt, if you browse the first games here, the threads talked about "that's what we needed", "he's class" and the like. At the end of the season, he seems not good enough for many. And I think he's a very good striker, an orange international.

Eto'o is better? yes he is. Villa is better? yes he is but not that much better. But let's not forget he's a good striker after the first season.

Kovacevic scored unimpressive 7 goals in Spain, before banging 28 next season. Should the team he had him had sold him after the first season, they would have made a mistake. Some patience is always required.

[Elchris]

I agree saying that those that speculated with Alonso leaving for a swap do not deserve to be called numpty for that. I think though, that those of us that said that we believed in the quotes of the player and Rafa (Alonso said at some point he wanted the premiership, and Rafa said at some point that he wanted a long term contract) didn't deserve to be called, "biased" to Alonso, neither. We all just were giving opinions sometimes, and bringing articles to comment other times.

Some of the rumourology concerning Alonso was ridiculous though. To read 40M + Alonso or Sissoko was a joke. It's a joke because that was read in the press. When I read a poster and I disagree I just think, that's his opinion, but when I read a journalist claiming that and I realise he's paid for it, it really puts my nerves on.

So 40M + Sissoko or Alonso? That's something Barcelona would get. That's saying that Alonso has a value of 20 M or so, when yesteryear a 25M offer was rejected as ridiculous. And that's saying aswell that Alonso and Sissoko have the same value. It didn't make much sense in my view. The worst part of it, is that actually some posters, and I honestly don't remember who because it was more than 6 or 7, would see that swap with good eyes. Some statements are not just logic.

All that in the mean time that the press also stated that Alonso was making ultimatums to play the final, and in the mean time that many fans were saying that we wouldn't miss him that much.

I don't like edges, mates. When I joined here, Alonso was the Mascherano. Everything he did, it was praised. He farted, he was praised. He jumped for a ball, he was praised. It was a lil bit ridiculous the Alonso praising. In my eyes, Alonso is a tougher player now, but the same fans (not one or two, but lots) say that he's not compatible with Gerrard (which is debatable), he's weak defending, which is bóllocks and we could live perfectly without him because we now have Mascherano. I'd just like some point in the middle in the praising/slashing of the players.

Mascherano? I think he's a great player, and I'm sure once the "kid with new runners" syndrome ends, I'll be defending him from people criticising his game after 2 bad games. Now I read not from 2, but from 10 or 15 that he had Kaka in his pocket in the final. Well I saw some mistakes of him aswell, and I think others were as important to keep kaka in the pocket as him. But now he's receiving the same praises Alonso was receiving. My personal position is always to not be on an edge, and both with Alonso and Mascherano many people were on an edge.

As for the signing thingy, the people is also on an edge. One day we're going to bang Barcelona and Valencia doors and bring Eto'o and Villa, and the next day we're poorer than Charlton and all is lost.

That's why I've liked a lot The Rock's post. Because he puts in perspective a couple of things, we already have a good squad, that can be improved, but even if we don't bring Villa, the world won't be finnished.

Good post Sabre.

In my opinion, most fans quickly get bored with players who do the simple things very well (e.g. Alonso and Finnan). It is perfectly acceptable for fans to *expect* exciting football. Our problem lies in the fact that we have not seen exciting football from our wingers this season - i.e. wingers who will run at defenders, cross balls and also score goals (with the exception of Gerrard, and *maybe* Kewell if he ever remains fit for a few months at a time)

This leaves the next set of players open to criticism - our midfielders. Gerrard (again!) can rouse fans in a way that Alonso can't, and so it is Alonso who must become the scapegoat - when, in fact, he has done nothing wrong. Our defensive record is not just down to the defense, but down to Alonso protecting the area in front of them, while trying to initiate counter-attacks.

If Rafa is able to assemble his preferred choice of attacking players at LFC, we will become a lot more reasonable with our assessment of defensive midfielders like Alonso and Mascherano 

I like to see Alonso play...the way he passes the ball is juz beautiful and he's a very calm players. He holds the midfield well and dictates them. On the tackling issue i prefer to watch mascherano doing it..

[66-1112520797]

The hysterical as schoolgirls is your perception of the world and I cannot argue about how you see things.

But I can discuss about football.

No one said Alonso was cr@p but many people including myself thought that if money was tight they would prefer Eto'o, rather than buying a second rate striker and keeping Alonso.

It was said, and correct me if I'm wrong, that selling Alonso could be a blessing in disguise.

That he was less compatible with Gerrard, that wasn't necessary because we now have Mascherano, and that he might be a good coin of exchange for Eto'o.

In my view, when you include a player in a swap deal, he's a secondary player. A player you want to get rid of. A Nuñez in the Owen deal. And the facts has instead said what's the true importance of the player in Rafa's view, a five year contract. Enough said about that, I don't have to say anything more to prove my point.

I can understand the arguement of "let's have money from other places and buy Eto'o".

But Why Alonso? he's a key player. You could get easily 10M from other players, and people was wanting to sell Alonso for 20?

I don't understand. And I don't understand thinking of the benefit of the club.

Sabre I'm not jumping on your back just giving an honest opinion. Like S@int I'd still seriously consider swapping Alonso for Eto.

Thats a footballing opinion based on a couple of things that we have discussed in the past, but not because he's cr@p meerly for the better for Liverpool. IMO its a little similar to the old saying you have to spend money to make money, sometimes in football you may have to use a very good player in order to get a World class one.

The ' blessing in disguise' wasnt my comment but I can see where that came from too. You say Alonso and Gerrard can play together, unfortunately they've never shown it really and Rafa doesnt seem to confident in the idea. IMO at times making Xabi the fulcrum of the team has weakened us as a team, and on top of that he hasnt really kicked on from his previous seasons. Where I think that the little Argie looks much more compatible IMHO playing together with Gerrard.

All that said and done though Xabi isnt going which is good news, it may not sound like it after what I've just said but that doesnt hide the fact Xabi is still very good. But like Saint said I'd personally prefer Alonso in part of a swap deal with Eto, than the lookalike Sally Gunnell who has been mooted, he isnt what we should be looking at IMO.

Sabre you are right in saying there are players you just cannot buy for love nor money, Eto maybe one of them. Cash isnt enough for Barca as they'd struggle to find a replacment with all the money they have. But if they were offered someone like Xabi as part of the deal that may, make them think twice, apparently as they need someone like him. I think that deal could of gone ahead, IF Xabi did not show his intentions to resign a contract with us, I believe Rafa may have baited Barca with him in order to land Eto.

Big summer signings ........ I'd like to see them soon, I'd love to see Tevez here, Mancini of Roma and real goal poacher, maybe Hunterlaar or Klose or someone like that or that kind of calibre.

[Ydde]

And I thought I was the only one thinking we might not need 3 to 4 players.

The we only need 3 to 4 world class players to challenge for the league thinking looks good on paper, but however I do not think so for 2 reasons.

1) World class players might need time to adapt.

It's all down to the question of "Is this guy really suited for the Premiership/Liverpool?" The truth is that, no one really knows. No matter how much of a superstar/world class player he is, we don't really know. For all of the Ronaldos and Henrys, there is Ballack and Shevchenko

Yes, we can make a educated guess based on how the player performs against English team, but that guess is based on the player playing in his original team which plays differently from Liverpool style.

Also, for Ronaldo and Henry, their first seasons wasn't exactly about blazing the premiership. In fact, I think Henry kind of flopped in the first season. But they play major roles in contributing to their teams league titles in later seasons.

Therefore, even with worldclass players, we do not know for sure if they need a few seasons under their belt to start performing.


2) Too many new players(even world class) will take time to gel into the team.

My point is, it is not fair saying that with 3 to 4 superstar signings, we will win the league. Because there is too much disruption to a team. On paper, we will look fantastic. But I really do feel that a team needs time to gel. To get used to each other playing style. To adapt to the tactics of Rafa.

I agree with The Rock that we have a very good squad as it is. I believe that Kuyt will improve, Pennant is improving,  will be back for next season. But to improve, we have to keep the continuity, keep the core of the squad. Get 1, maximum 2 top quality player in. This will not cause as much disruption to the team to say 3 to 4 new players. For a good example, Manure. The last 3 years for them was about adding 1 or 2 top players each year to their core teams.

For us, I feel that a left winger is top priority. Followed by a striker.