Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

having 2 brigades is good... it makes the forum so much more interesting and dynamic while eventually evening things out... if all the posters were like saint and sitting on the fence then it'll be very boring (j/k) ... the american political system works like this... so who're the republicans and who are the democrats?

Blame Rafa or maybe the players if your that way inclined. If we had mounted a title challenge I would be firmly in the pro-rafa camp, if we had been knocked out of the CL I would be firmly in the anti-camp. So its not that I can't make a decision, its Rafa and those pesky players that are to blame.

[maguskwt]

One thing is absolutely certain and beyond dispute, had any of us "anti's" have come on earlier in the season and predicted we would have been as totally and absolutely out of the title race as we are now, out of the FA Cup and in a battle for fourth place with the likes of Aston Villa and Portsmouth we would have been slagged from pillar to post.

that is because even if you are anti-rafa you're still a liverpool supporter and you should have some faith... nothing to do with 'unfair' treatment from the 'pro-rafa's'...

[LFC2007]

The "problem" if there is one with the Rafa supporters getting a bit tetchy and the Rafa doubters being condescending is probably brought on by the way the season has gone. Had we ripped it up this season whilst employing "Rafa style" I'm fairly sure the roles would have been reversed. As it is, human nature dicatates that it's not always easy to accept that things haven't necessarily panned out the way you expected.

FWIW I actually think that under a fair amount of provocation sometimes, some of the people who came out fairly early against rotation and the Rafa methodology (and I most definately include myself in this) have done reasonably well in not always going down the "I told you so" route when under fire. One thing is absolutely certain and beyond dispute, had any of us "anti's" have come on earlier in the season and predicted we would have been as totally and absolutely out of the title race as we are now, out of the FA Cup and in a battle for fourth place with the likes of Aston Villa and Portsmouth we would have been slagged from pillar to post. I actually predicted (page 13 of the rotation thread) that we would be out of the title race "totally and absolutely" by Christmas if we continued to rotate in the style which we began the season, and picked up the usual flak for saying it. As it happens I was a couple of weeks ahead of my time, but probably not deserving of the ridicule which came at the time. More recently on the "I can't belive the lack of reaction on here" thread, a couple of posters let themselves down with one taking the opportunity to bring posters occupations into the equation which was a baffling development.

Fortunately in the main though, most people seem to be coming round to the idea that everyone is fully entitled to a point of view, even if it opposes their own. People who don't support Rafa in his rotational experiment are not necessarily fools. Those who do, the same. That's all it boils down to really, everyone has an opinion and they're entitled to it.

Those who support Rafa think that he should be given another season. If he is, my suspicion is that he'll have another go at the "Rafa style" (those who want to give him another season but hope he might change his methods are deluding themselves IMHO and I think even most of his most ardent supporters would probably agrere with that). If he does go for the rotation again, I think it'll fail. That said though, there is always the possibility it will succeed, anything is possible in football. There is aways the possibility it will eventually work, this is why the people who believe in such an eventuality are not gimps or morons. Having said that, neither are those of us who don't think it will either.

I find it odd when a result doesn't go our way, the so called 'D&Gers' rejoice at the fact that slowly more people are converting to anti-Rafa viewpoints.

If you support your club and your team, that's an unnatural and self-serving reaction. How can you react with an ounce of delight after a defeat or a draw? How? Why the anti-Rafa  when we lose or draw?, do they hate Rafa that much? Why I ask? That's not what supporting your club is about. Depressed, upset, I can understand, but rejoicing and producing lists of those who want Rafa out etc... That's not normal, and thankfully most fans aren't like that.

Some of the comments reserved for our manager by supposed 'supporters' on here, are comments that should be reserved for the likes of Everton and the Manc's. 'He's a clown.....a spanish waiter....a greedy spanish c.....t....only here for the money....'

Clowns don't win European cups, FA cups and La Ligas.

[LFC2007]

"

I haven't seen much evidence that would support that statement.

One that comes immediately to mind is your post to Heimdall "don't ever quote one of my posts again c.unt".

No doubt if I could be bothered I could supply many more

That was unrelated to football chat (I was not castigating him for his footballing opinions - THE POINT) - he quoted me in an attempt to wind me up, but if that's your point. I'll equally take your comments out of context:

"Grow up you thick tw@t"

"You're a kunt"

I'm sure I could supply many more.

Btw in the interest of historical accuracy I actually said "grow up you soft sod ", and I dont think I have ever said "your a kunt" to anyone, although I have thought it a time or two. 

"Why don't you just f.uck off"

"And you can f.ucking join him"

[bigmick]

I've seen you quote that "greedy spaninsh c...' line a couple of times now LFC, and while I don't doubt that somebody said it, I don't think to be perfectly honest it is representitive of general opinion from the "D & G ers". Similar the "Spanish Waiter" thing, or "only in it for the money". I may be wrong but I can't help thinking that we maybe making the mistake of quoting WUM's and thinking that they speak for anybody who thinks Rafa has taken the wrong course.

I actually think that the debate has taken on such a meandering course, with the divisions and trenches so deep, that often the outcome in between the main protagonists (and I include myself in this) takes on a life of it's own quite outside what goes on with the team. Obviously no Liverpool supporter will have enjoyed seeing the team finish 21 points behind the leaders last season, and probably a similar number this season, but those of us who have been (and still are) on the recieving end of all the nonstop barbed comments wouldn't be human if we didn't take a modicum of solace from the fact that in the end, we did pretty much call it right.

I think most of the anti-Rafa people are by a distance more anti the "pro Rafa" people than they are the manager himself. Peoples' individual positions have become so entrenched that I really do think sometimes that if they took the opportunity to step back and read what they actually write, they must surely see that often they have an impossible position to defend. How for instance people can say after a defeat to Barnsley that "it's down to the players" and then three days later when we overcome Inter that it's a stroke of genius management and expect to be taken seriously is something they'll have to expain because it's certainly beyond me. Similarly, after three out of four years of massive under-achivement in the League, it's knee-jerky and fickle to point it out. To rejoice after a win though, albeit after an extended bliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip is not knee jerky, it's entirely reasonable.

I've asked a couple of times in the past for Pro Rafa, pro rotatationist (if there are any left) people to keep the back slapping down a bit. Not because it bothers me overly, more because I'm a bit supersticious and think if you celebrate too early things have a habit of coming back to haunt you. We haven't beaten Inter Milan yet never mind won the Champions League, and we haven't secured fourth yet either so a little perspective is called for.

Should we all be sitting here at the end of the season with another Champions Lague under our belts and fourth place in the bag, then no doubt those who support the manager and his methodology will feel vindicated and happy. Those of us who don't support his methodology will just feel happy, which is fine by me. If it means the debate continues, that's fine by me too. If he keeps his job next season, it's all good. Lets face it, my opinion from 12,000 miles away isn't going to make a sh!te of difference to anybody involved with the club either as a fan or as an employee. If he keeps his job, I'll still support the club. I'll still though point out on a forum when I disagree with him, even if it does rile people on here. I definately won't though under any circumstances get involved in the abuse that some have this season towards me and others. There's simply no need for it.

[LFC2007]

I've seen you quote that "greedy spaninsh c...' line a couple of times now LFC, and while I don't doubt that somebody said it, I don't think to be perfectly honest it is representitive of general opinion from the "D & G ers". Similar the Spanish Waiter thing, or only in it for the money. I may be wrong but I can't help thinking that we maybe making the mistake of quoting WUM's and thinking that they speak for anybody who thinks Rafa has taken the wrong course.

A well known member of this forum, and arch anti-Rafa man has made some of the comments I quoted. Words to that effect are uttered by much of the D&G brigade. Not your best behaving self, but others.

I think most of the anti-Rafa people are by a distance more anti the "pro Rafa" people than they are the manager himself. Peoples' individual positions have become so entrenched that I really do think sometimes that if they took the opportunity to step back and read what they actually write, they must surely see that often they have an impossible position to defend. How for instance people can say after a defeat to Barnsley that "it's down to the players" and then three days later when we overcome Inter that it's a stroke of genius management and expect to be taken seriously is something they'll have to expain because it's certainly beyond me. Similarly, after three out of four years of massive under-achivement in the League, it's knee-jerky and fickle to point it out. To rejoice after a win though, albeit after an extended bliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip is not knee jerky, it's entirely reasonable.

People aren't saying it's solely down to the players when we lose, but against Barsnley the fact is, we dominated the game and the players on the pitch were more than capable of defeating them. They have to take more of the blame for not putting the game to bed. Their emergency on-loan 'keeper had a blinder, and they nipped it at the end. Rafa could well have played his absolute strongest team, but the number of chances we created didn't indicate he 'got it wrong' in that respect. Against Inter, no-one TMK has said the result was solely or overwhelmigly because of Rafa, but he has a knack of getting results in that competition, and that's just being realistic - or as you might say 'telling it as it is', 'calling a spade a spade' etc..

It's natural to be happy and upbeat after we've beaten Inter so convincingly, a team considered to be by most pundits as a relative shoo-in to go through. I don't see that as being fickle. I'd dread to think what some of the miserable bas.tards on here would be like if they were at Anfield that night.

[maguskwt]

I've seen you quote that "greedy spaninsh c...' line a couple of times now LFC, and while I don't doubt that somebody said it, I don't think to be perfectly honest it is representitive of general opinion from the "D & G ers". Similar the Spanish Waiter thing, or only in it for the money. I may be wrong but I can't help thinking that we maybe making the mistake of quoting WUM's and thinking that they speak for anybody who thinks Rafa has taken the wrong course.

A well known member of this forum, and arch anti-Rafa man has made some of the comments I quoted. Words to that effect are uttered by much of the D&G brigade. Not your best behaving self, but others.

a certain monsieur P i presume... 

[LFC2007]

I couldn't possibly say   

[Billy_5_Times]

It doesn't matter who the results are down to. We're a team, so we should win and lose as a team. Barnsley was the teams fault and Inter was the teams victory.

Plus both of those games are now in the past, they're not going to help us beat Bolton so our concentration should now be on Bolton. Not the whys and hows of losing to Barnsley and beating Inter. Look forward, not back.

[Owzat]

Actually Barnsley was their team's fault, they defended exceptionally and simply absorbed everything we threw at them. If only our defence had been half as good at their job as Barnsley's, same against boro with another couple of sloppy goals. Just as well intertoto milan came looking for 0-0

[account deleted by request]

"

I haven't seen much evidence that would support that statement.

One that comes immediately to mind is your post to Heimdall "don't ever quote one of my posts again c.unt".

No doubt if I could be bothered I could supply many more

That was unrelated to football chat (I was not castigating him for his footballing opinions - THE POINT) - he quoted me in an attempt to wind me up, but if that's your point. I'll equally take your comments out of context:

"Grow up you thick tw@t"

"You're a kunt"

I'm sure I could supply many more.

Btw in the interest of historical accuracy I actually said "grow up you soft sod ", and I dont think I have ever said "your a kunt" to anyone, although I have thought it a time or two. 

"Why don't you just f.uck off"

"And you can f.ucking join him"

Seems such a pity when people don't take good advice when its offered 

[LFC2007]

Seems such a pity when people don't take good advice when its offered 

Isn't it just 

[account deleted by request]

Seems such a pity when people don't take good advice when its offered 

Isn't it just 

"don't ever quote one of my posts again c.unt".

[LFC2007]

Seems such a pity when people don't take good advice when its offered 

Isn't it just 

"don't ever quote one of my posts again c.unt".

It was actually "you cunt"

[account deleted by request]

"Don't ever quote one of my posts again YOU c.unt"


Better?