Liverpool FC Forum

[Dalglish]

If you want to be respected for your content learn to deliver it with a touch more grace hey 

The lad's joined the forum and OK hasn;t made the most auspicious start but jumping all over him like a cheap suit is poor form IMO 

Hey Dalglish man, the kid neads a speaking to all right. Coming on here raving about Cisse and Kewell and bashing Crouch. And then you try to lecture me? And respect, who cares, as long as I'm right. LOL[/quote]
Fair comment so if your that concerned about the "kid" then perhaps a PM would have done the trick or do you like picking on kids and scoring a  few cheap points ? 


Well ? which is it to be Bully Boy ? 

 

[zarababe]

'Bully Boy' .. naa he ain't logged on yet

[banana]

What about the cheap suits thing man. I ain't here to talk about heute couture. Let's stick to the ball game and we all be fine. And I'm no bully boy. I don't think it is insulting for this Aus%/%, whatever, to be told that he is a kid. Because I think he is. Men like fight and hard work, and dislike lazyness and selfishness. Prime virtues in Kewell and Cisse, although I must admit that they seem to be coming around a bit ( at least Cisse that is, Kewell should go back to Australia and work on his tan as it is the only work he is willing to do)

[Red Soul]

Hmmmm.

Cisse - I simply don't think he's the striker that Rafa is looking for. I believe that Rafa's master plan is to build a squad that can put out a team to exploit opponent's weaknesses and combat their strengths. Rather than having a constant first team, with lesser quality back-ups for each position, he's concentrating on having as many options open to him as possible, so he can put out a tailor-made side. In this plan, there is obviously a requirement for a pacy striker, but for me Cisse doesn't quite fit the bill. There are far better out there. Cisse's pace and shot power seem to be his sole outstanding attributes, whereas his first touch, ball control, shot accuracy, passing and work ethic appear to be lacking. I think that Rafa doesn't see Cisse as a long-term answer to the position, yet the other forwards are definitely part of his plans. I think this is why they're getting extended runs in the first team, allowing them to build up a partnership with each other and an understanding with the other players, whereas Cisse is not. Crouch, although his goals return hasn't been too good, is proving excellent as a focal point for our attacks. He gets onto every ball lofted into the box, is adept at keeping the ball until midfield support arrives, and is very good at drawing defenders to allow other players to exploit the gaps they leave behind. Crouch will run all day for the team, albeit not as fast as Cisse.

Kewell - I'm hoping Kewell can come good this season. He's short of match fitness, and seems to have a bit of a mental barrier at the moment, probably because of his injury. Others are slating him for not chasing lost balls or making important tackles, but I'm of the opinion that this is not because of a lacking workrate, but of a very real fear that sudden changes of direction and acceleration, as well as challenging for the ball physically, could put more stress on his persistent injuries and cause a relapse, plonking the poor lad firmly back at square one. I think it'll take quite a few more games before Kewell is confident of how much a battering his body can take, especially in a league as physical as the Premiership.

Flo Po - he's definitely one for the future, but he's not quite the finished article yet. He's just returned from injury, and is a little short of match fitness. I think the best way he can learn is to continue to be on the bench, I'm afraid - he'll gain the experience he needs, little by little, but there'll rarely be a time when we're depending on him to squeak us out a result, which will take a lot of the pressure off him.

[A.B.]

Cisse has said various times in papers how much he loves this club and the fans but he's yet to show that on the pitch where it matters most. His attitude on the pitch stinks for a player whose wearing the Red shirt,[especially #9 shirt] complaing when a ball is not perfect at his feet despite having a first touch of a wall. He needs to start working for the team like he said he was going to [which is something Benitez also pointed out to him] and start using his brain on the ball.

If you remember correctly, Kewell was given a start in the Champions League final. To me that says that Benitez still rates him and believes in him. He needs to start showing that consistantly before he earns a place in the squad. Simple things matter i.e. going after a hopeless ball, fans like to see players show determination.

Benitez has dismissed the rumours regarding Pongolle, and at the beginning of the season he played in a lot of games until he ran out of form. He too needs to show a little bit more than he has .

And if Benitez doesn't like ''flash'' then why the hell is Luis Garcia part of this team then?

[TheoRacle]

Banana

Humour me I'm in a good mood today and there is no disrespect intended!

You seem to be sufferring from a conditioned reflex to Mssr. Harry Kewell. 

Whenever I see Kewell play I get angry because his lazy attitude and his unwillingness to work for the team.

Do you get these feelings as soon as you see "Kewell" on the team sheet or does he actually have to touch the ball first?

It seems to me that the majority of contributors to the forum although not falling over themsleves in the rush to praise Kewell do in fact acknowledge that so far he seems to be tracking back and making the kind of effort we expect.

Admittedly he still has a lot to prove however, whilst I recognise that Crouch (who you seem to rate highly)is indeed a fan's favourite, and does contribute to our game I dont quite see that there is any real gulf in the levels of contribution from either player. He (Crouch) has worked his off in the final third of the pitch and short of actually scoring a $hitload of goals has linked play well.

Kewell's done similarly IMO, displayed good vision, excuted a few slick interchanges, held up and distributed the ball intelligently and covered where he needed to.

Yes, he's fluffed a corner and a free kick but I'm sure anybody that wanted to be critical could find a miskick attributable to Crouch or Gerrard or Alonso for that matter.

Relax a bit, let the new guy express his opinon and try to see other's point of view.  You may not agree with it as is your right, but there is no sense in antagonising fellow supporters be they old or new.

[banana]

Banana

Humour me I'm in a good mood today!

You seem to be sufferring from a conditioned reflex to Mssr. Harry Kewell. 

Whenever I see Kewell play I get angry because his lazy attitude and his unwillingness to work for the team.

Do you get these feelings as soon as you see "Kewell" on the team sheet or does he actually have to touch the ball first?

It seems to me that the majority of contributors to the forum although not falling over themsleves in the rush to praise Kewell do in fact acknowledge that so far he seems to be tracking back and making the kind of effort we expect.

Admittedly he still has a lot to prove however, whilst I recognise that Crouch (who you seem to rate highly)is indeed a fan's favourite, and does contribute to our game I dont quite see that there is any real gulf in the levels of contribution from either player. He (Crouch) has worked his off in the final third of the pitch and short of actually scoring a $hitload of goals has linked play well.

Kewell's done similarly IMO, displayed good vision, excuted a few slick interchanges, held up and distributed the ball intelligently and covered where he needed to.

Yes, he's fluffed a corner and a free kick but I'm sure anybody that wanted to be critical could find a miskick attributable to Crouch or Gerrard or Alonso for that matter.

Relax a bit, let the new guy express his opinon and try to see other's point of view.  You may not agree with it as is your right, but there is no sense in antagonising fellow supporters be they old or new.

Well lad. I've just apologized to the Aus-dude and he has accepted my apologiez. Anyway, I don't dislike Kewell just like that. I just don't respect him He must earn my respect, and a first step would be starting to move round a little more and help out in defence. Several times after he came on he let his man go past him without a fight, without effort. And I think that is unacceptable. Kewell used to have good skills on the ball and he was able to go past his man every now and then. But that is all gone. So now he should try to make up his lack of flair and dribbling by some hard honest work. And he should cut that gay pony tail and loose a few pounds. Maybe we should put him on the same diet as Crouchie. I read that he was only 74kilos. I bet Kewell is 10 inches shorter and 15 pounds heavier.

[TheoRacle]

I do hear where you are coming from Banana... let's hope he gets his confidence and sharpness back.

I wonder how of much or Redsoul's comments below are on the money?

I'm hoping Kewell can come good this season. He's short of match fitness, and seems to have a bit of a mental barrier at the moment, probably because of his injury. Others are slating him for not chasing lost balls or making important tackles, but I'm of the opinion that this is not because of a lacking workrate, but of a very real fear that sudden changes of direction and acceleration, as well as challenging for the ball physically, could put more stress on his persistent injuries and cause a relapse, plonking the poor lad firmly back at square one. I think it'll take quite a few more games before Kewell is confident of how much a battering his body can take, especially in a league as physical as the Premiership.

[Sabre]

He must earn my respect, and a first step would be starting to move round a little more and help out in defence

I feel pretty much like Banana on this statement. I don't have anything against Kewell but respect is earned on the pitch.

While watching the comments of the game I read things like "good skill from Kewell" from the Aussie guys. Yes, he has a good ball control, yes, he does have a flexible waist to dribble, but as far as I have seen he doesn't play for the team. In it's agenda seems to be precisely to show this individual skills in order to show his value, and I think that's wrong.

Examples: heeling the ball, where there were better options. Making a very difficult control of a ball that was coming fast (and he stopped it completely! remarkable) only to try to do a innecesary driblling and lose a dangerous ball, if he'd given the ball to a mate once controlled... so yes, the Aussie player is good, great potential, but still has to remove the "I'm the most important guy in the team" attitude, he's not playing for Australia here.

Good news is that this attitudes can be learnt, and I hope he'll do so.

[Kukilon]

I wasn't a big fan of Crouch in the beginning but I have to agree upon that he does a lot for his team and that is what is most important. Liverpool has always been a team and not a cirkus show like Real Madrid. He is our best player upfront in all honesty though he hasn't been scorring a lot. And what is up with all of this BS about one goal? He has scorred twice and I don't care about what the media says about that.

I think that Cisse should get a little more playing time though in his natural position. If he doesn't change his attitude he is out of the team. He doesn't seem to want to play for Liverpool... or he wants to play for Liverpool in his terms.

Kewell has been playing a little bit better but he has still a lot to prove to get my respect.

[Ace Ventura]

Hmmmm.

Cisse - I simply don't think he's the striker that Rafa is looking for. I believe that Rafa's master plan is to build a squad that can put out a team to exploit opponent's weaknesses and combat their strengths. Rather than having a constant first team, with lesser quality back-ups for each position, he's concentrating on having as many options open to him as possible, so he can put out a tailor-made side. In this plan, there is obviously a requirement for a pacy striker, but for me Cisse doesn't quite fit the bill. There are far better out there. Cisse's pace and shot power seem to be his sole outstanding attributes, whereas his first touch, ball control, shot accuracy, passing and work ethic appear to be lacking. I think that Rafa doesn't see Cisse as a long-term answer to the position, yet the other forwards are definitely part of his plans. I think this is why they're getting extended runs in the first team, allowing them to build up a partnership with each other and an understanding with the other players, whereas Cisse is not. Crouch, although his goals return hasn't been too good, is proving excellent as a focal point for our attacks. He gets onto every ball lofted into the box, is adept at keeping the ball until midfield support arrives, and is very good at drawing defenders to allow other players to exploit the gaps they leave behind. Crouch will run all day for the team, albeit not as fast as Cisse.

Kewell - I'm hoping Kewell can come good this season. He's short of match fitness, and seems to have a bit of a mental barrier at the moment, probably because of his injury. Others are slating him for not chasing lost balls or making important tackles, but I'm of the opinion that this is not because of a lacking workrate, but of a very real fear that sudden changes of direction and acceleration, as well as challenging for the ball physically, could put more stress on his persistent injuries and cause a relapse, plonking the poor lad firmly back at square one. I think it'll take quite a few more games before Kewell is confident of how much a battering his body can take, especially in a league as physical as the Premiership.

Flo Po - he's definitely one for the future, but he's not quite the finished article yet. He's just returned from injury, and is a little short of match fitness. I think the best way he can learn is to continue to be on the bench, I'm afraid - he'll gain the experience he needs, little by little, but there'll rarely be a time when we're depending on him to squeak us out a result, which will take a lot of the pressure off him.

A very good post mate, and imo right on the money regarding Cisse.

[tubby]

What everyone has to remember is that Cisse was here by the time Rafa took over anyway. Perhaps Cisse doesnt fit into his plan. I have a feeling though that come Jan Cisse could be off and perhaps even Morientes come the summer. Despite the lack of goals his all round game is good (Crouch) and after yet another convincing clean sheet worthy performance thats is enough for me.

What people have to look at is the facts. Weve so far exceeded the amount of clean sheets all last season.

Were third in the league, a position we havent been in in years.

Were champions of Europe

Were improvming over time and people are finally taking note.

All i can say is i dont care what people think of Rafa or his tactics. If you havent heard it already make way cos Liverpool are back in the big time and there back to stay!!!!!!!!!!!

[JBG]

To address the original poster's points:

1. Despite what he said when he first arrived, I don't think Rafa would have bought Cisse were it down to him. Cisse has exceptional, freakish pace, a decent shot when gven space, but little else. His touch is only average for a forward, but his link up play and general football intelligence is appalling. He has also been a bit petulent this year, and has been talking to the press. I think that on balance, Rafa is correct on Cisse. He makes a very good impact sub, but I don't see Djbril in our long term plans.

2. I think with Harry Kewell its a case of "We're paying him £65,000 a week, we cannot find find a buyer for him, and he WAS excellent three or so years ago, so we might as well at least try to get our monies worth." I think Rafa also rates Kewell as a player, more so than many suspect.

3. Sinama Pongolle is still very raw, but he deserves a chance. If he keeps patient Rafa will eventually put him in the team more.

[lawrenson_sarah]

Whatever Rafa does i support his decisions!

If he plays Crouch, he obviously sees potential and is happy what he does add to our team then i trust his decision.

The fact that he doesnt play Cisse as much, may be down to a bad attitude? People dont know. Im not too sure about Cisse now. I recon Rafa will sell him if another striker becomes available!

None of our strikers are actually preforming to the best of their ability, or achieving what they should be

[Leonmc0708]

To address the original poster's points:

1. Despite what he said when he first arrived, I don't think Rafa would have bought Cisse were it down to him. Cisse has exceptional, freakish pace, a decent shot when gven space, but little else. His touch is only average for a forward, but his link up play and general football intelligence is appalling. He has also been a bit petulent this year, and has been talking to the press. I think that on balance, Rafa is correct on Cisse. He makes a very good impact sub, but I don't see Djbril in our long term plans.

2. I think with Harry Kewell its a case of "We're paying him £65,000 a week, we cannot find find a buyer for him, and he WAS excellent three or so years ago, so we might as well at least try to get our monies worth." I think Rafa also rates Kewell as a player, more so than many suspect.

3. Sinama Pongolle is still very raw, but he deserves a chance. If he keeps patient Rafa will eventually put him in the team more.

To respond to JBG's post (and I promise not to flirt audaciously like Zbabe and Daggers earlier)

1. On the money, Rafa would not have bought him, but was stuck with the deal. He does not rate him, and at the earliest opportunity he will be on his way. (I think we should give him to Marseille in exchange for Frank Ribery).

2. Kewell took Rafa's eye some years back, when Rafa came over to England whilst he was studying football training etc.. He was a guest of Sir Alex at Old Trafford, and it was a Leeds V Man Utd game where Benitez was in the stand. He reckons during that game, and in his subsequent following of Kewell that he decided Harry was one of the best attacking wingers he has seen.
I know Kewell is a good player, and stand by him to the extent that he will prove himself this year without doubt.

3. Pongolle has the ability, and is indeed raw, but to get his chance he really does need to score a goal, he is after all a forward.