Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

I agree with Ace that Maxi needs to be used more. He'scompletely undervalued imo. Yes he may be a bit lightweight but the gauy has better movement and football intelligence than the rest of our midfield combined at times. He's also always likely to nick you a goals. He got into double figures last season.

[aCe']

I cant believe that KK would buy players who he didnt think were good enough to play for LFC
At the minute things arent working but I dont think its because the players are sh'ite. If what some are saying, that KK has wasted tens of millions on duds and players with no quality, then it must be logical to conclude that KK is a clueless idiot who has spent foolishly and has ended any hopes of a CL place.
Five games in and were already fu'cked.
I think not

Im not even sure this is worth replying to but Ill give you the benefit of the doubt. For starters, Im sure Kenny believed and probably still believes that Adam, Henderson, Carroll..etc are good enough to not only get us into the top4 but possibly be valuable members in a side that challenges for the league. All 3 of the players above have age on their side and they might all turn out to be world beaters in 3 or 4 seasons but sadly that trust means fck all for our chances this season unless they can start producing in the next few games.

Second thing is this whole attitude that some fans have of dismissing the mere notion of Kenny ever making any mistakes. To be perfectly honest it makes you look like an idiot when you sit there and reply to every post with : "so you think you know more than Kenny ?" or "are you saying that kenny is clueless ?" Give it a rest .

Last thing, 5 games or even 1 game in doesnt mean that every post where someone suggests something even remotely critical or negative is a knee jerk post. Similarly, not everything can be resolved through the genius concept of 'give it time'.

But then again, if you've got little to add then I guess its 'logical' that you just comment on what others have to say rather than add what you think is going wrong or could be done...

[mart]

If what some are saying, that KK has wasted tens of millions on duds and players with no quality, then it must be logical to conclude that KK is a clueless idiot who has spent foolishly and has ended any hopes of a CL place.

Why? Every single manager in the world makes mistakes in the transfer market. Why cant Kenny do the same?

[aCe']

Call me sentimental but I don't think Carragher deserves the pasting some have given him in this thread, having a go at him for the 4th goal ! for f'ucks sake who cares, we were down to 9 men and well beaten by then.

Yeah he's past his best, he's not the quickest and he hoofs stuff, he also reads the game better than most and would f'ucking die for us !  Was it his fault he had Skrtel at RB, a once again FRAGILE Agger alongside him and a non existent central midfield (Lucas & Adam) in front of him ?

Sorry Cig, think you're out of order to throw the sink at Carra, but do agree with much of the other stuff you've said.

Adam, looked good for Blackpool, now that the spotlight is on him looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights

Henderson, one for the future perhaps ? just don't understand why he's getting so much game time now

Carrol,  I said six months ago he "looked like a lump, we may as well plant a lamp post up front and bounce balls off it" , my opinion hasn't changed.

Finally, admittedly one of our more talented players BUT am I the only one that thinks Suarez needs to shut the f'uck up, and instead of falling down at every opportunity instead tries to stand up and get on with it ?

Car crash of a performance from the team as a whole, we were never in it. Could continue to moan about individual players they were sh'ite, but ultimately the blame rests at the managers door.

Gotta agree with that especially the Carra part..
As a team, we arent looking too comfortable defending through the middle and for me that has much more to do with the midfielders positioning than it does the CBs making mistakes.
Another thing regarding the hoof comments, the manager surely understands that CBs when short of options are better off playing it long rather than gambling possession in dangerous areas. For me, Lucas, Adam and the fullbacks need to show more (or better) for balls from the back to get attacks started. Thats were Johnson for me becomes a key player in the side and a large part of the reason why Adam's lack of mobility holds us back when he plays in a deeper role.

On Suarez, while I understand why hes frustrated with the players around him, its never nice seeing players going to the ground easily or protesting decisions too much. For me its not that big an issue; as soon as we starting dominating games again and beating sides he'll get over it imo..

[stmichael]

Why? Every single manager in the world makes mistakes in the transfer market. Why cant Kenny do the same?

Kenny made mistakes at the weekend and it won't be his last. The man is not immune from criticism. However maybe it's just me but I'm willing to wait more than 5 competitive games before writing off transfers as a "mistake".

I trust the King to have learned from the weekend. It's when he starts not learning from his mistakes on a regular basis I'll be worried. I don't think we'll ever see Skrtel at right back again (touchwood) and I expect to see 3 maybe 4 changes for the Norwich game from the eleven that played at Spurs.

[Thommo's perm]

I cant believe that KK would buy players who he didnt think were good enough to play for LFC
At the minute things arent working but I dont think its because the players are sh'ite. If what some are saying, that KK has wasted tens of millions on duds and players with no quality, then it must be logical to conclude that KK is a clueless idiot who has spent foolishly and has ended any hopes of a CL place.
Five games in and were already fu'cked.
I think not

Im not even sure this is worth replying to but Ill give you the benefit of the doubt. For starters, Im sure Kenny believed and probably still believes that Adam, Henderson, Carroll..etc are good enough to not only get us into the top4 but possibly be valuable members in a side that challenges for the league. All 3 of the players above have age on their side and they might all turn out to be world beaters in 3 or 4 seasons but sadly that trust means fck all for our chances this season unless they can start producing in the next few games.

Second thing is this whole attitude that some fans have of dismissing the mere notion of Kenny ever making any mistakes. To be perfectly honest it makes you look like an idiot when you sit there and reply to every post with : "so you think you know more than Kenny ?" or "are you saying that kenny is clueless ?" Give it a rest .

Last thing, 5 games or even 1 game in doesnt mean that every post where someone suggests something even remotely critical or negative is a knee jerk post. Similarly, not everything can be resolved through the genius concept of 'give it time'.

But then again, if you've got little to add then I guess its 'logical' that you just comment on what others have to say rather than add what you think is going wrong or could be done...

Thanks for the condescension but I dont know whether I really deserve it?
You seem to be contradicting yourself. On one hand youre saying Adam, Henderson and Carroll arent good enough:
"The transfers for me were the biggest problem and aside from Enrique and Suarez (30mill or so combined) we wasted around 90mill on players who are either not good enough or arent suited to our style of play. From day1 when we were linked to all of Carroll, Adam and Henderson, their shortcomings were pretty obvious to everyone who had ever seen them play and it was always going to be difficult for Kenny to get them to up their games enough for it to be acceptable for a club of our size." Which would lead us to think that those who bought these inferior players, "we" i.e. KK hadnt a clue what they were doing?
Secondly if you read my posts again you will see that I quite clearly state that he made a mistake in his team selection and hope that he learns from it. Plus, as far as I can remember I have never said "so you think you know more than Kenny". So it is you who should "give it a rest"

Lastly, wishing that things happen over night doesnt necessarily work in the real world, so sometimes patience has to be applied for things to work out the way you want them. I have said what I think is going wrong many times and I have also sugested what should be done. Maybe you missed it?
Which is logical if you dont look properly...

[Dundalk]

Call me sentimental but I don't think Carragher deserves the pasting some have given him in this thread, having a go at him for the 4th goal ! for f'ucks sake who cares, we were down to 9 men and well beaten by then.

Yeah he's past his best, he's not the quickest and he hoofs stuff, he also reads the game better than most and would f'ucking die for us !  Was it his fault he had Skrtel at RB, a once again FRAGILE Agger alongside him and a non existent central midfield (Lucas & Adam) in front of him ?

Sorry Cig, think you're out of order to throw the sink at Carra, but do agree with much of the other stuff you've said.

Adam, looked good for Blackpool, now that the spotlight is on him looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights

Henderson, one for the future perhaps ? just don't understand why he's getting so much game time now

Carrol,  I said six months ago he "looked like a lump, we may as well plant a lamp post up front and bounce balls off it" , my opinion hasn't changed.

Finally, admittedly one of our more talented players BUT am I the only one that thinks Suarez needs to shut the f'uck up, and instead of falling down at every opportunity instead tries to stand up and get on with it ?

Car crash of a performance from the team as a whole, we were never in it. Could continue to moan about individual players they were sh'ite, but ultimately the blame rests at the managers door.

Well said

He seems to be the scapegoat for all of this for some reason, we were totally overrun in midfield yesterday because of Henderson and Adam. Spurs had so much space that by the time the got to our back four our defenders had pushed forward to try and squeeze the space.

Is Gerrard the answer to all of this ?

NO. Simply because we need him playing the role sitting behind Suraez and playing through ball to him, just like he did with Torres. We really could end up missing Mieriles.

[redtrader74]

Blaming Carragher is so far off the mark it's ridiculous, he is just as committed, as quick or slow and as good a defender he was 2 or 3 years ago, we just played in a different manner then. We had players in the midfield that held onto the ball, Alonso, Gerrard, mascher (yeah even him), and a team that defended as a unit. Add Kuyt to these three and you had an 8 man defence.

Our problem is that we have replaced top class players, with decent players who have very little athletic ability, and poor touch, Henderson Vs     Meireles for example. Adam is at best a squad player, how can someone  who wasn't even the best at a relegated Blackpool be a pivotal Liverpool player? The saddest thing is that he, along with the totempole up front have not even bothered to have their fitness, strength and weight at the levels expected for a Premiership player, let alone one at our Club, and Kenny needs to take his share of the blame here; ffs I train with people at my gym who are in better condition. This is one of the reasons I have always respected Kuyt, he may not have the talent others possess, but at least he squeezes the maximum out of himself.

Going back to basic for me means a defense where central defenders play in their correct positions; carra, skrtel, Agger, Coates fighting it out for two spots, Kelly, flanagan, johnson, Enrique, for their positions.

A midfield with Lucas sitting, with Gerrard and Maxi, one of our more talented players who links up very well with Suarez and stupidly underused, in the middle of the park. A front 3 of Downing, Suarez and Kuyt would be fluid and energetic and a side that can defend well.

Henderson i still have hope for, he looks like a guy devoid of confidence and someone who would hugely benefit from playing with Stevie, and finding a set of nuts. Adam and Carroll need to ask themselves if they want to be at Liverpool, as their lack of fitness is unacceptable. Thing is does Kenny have the balls to bench £60m of 'talent' and admit he has made a mistake?

[stmichael]

maxi being used in a central 3 is an interesting notion that I hadn't even considered if I'm honest. Didn't he play there for Argentina in the World Cup?

Whatever the case I agree that he's been underused. And this is yet another player who a little over a year ago was being absolutely slated by the majority of our own fans in the way half the new signings are now. Only Kuyt scored more league goals for us than Maxi last season.

[redtrader74]

maxi being used in a central 3 is an interesting notion that I hadn't even considered if I'm honest. Didn't he play there for Argentina in the World Cup?

Whatever the case I agree that he's been underused. And this is yet another player who a little over a year ago was being absolutely slated by the majority of our own fans in the way half the new signings are now. Only Kuyt scored more league goals for us than Maxi last season.

Maxi is talented, but not a player who can take a game on, unlike Stevie. He needs clever players around him who have good touch, vision and movement and why he came into his own when he linked up with Suarez and Meireles; like minded players, and why he always looked good with Argentina.

We can utilize him well in the centre of the park with Downing, Stevie, Kuyt and Suarez buzzing around, as they all like to take the ball, can hold onto it and most importantly like give and go, 1-2s. if a player is not used to maximize his talent he will look ; with Adam behind him and Carroll in front we'd make Xavi look ordinary.

[Thommo's perm]

Ive calmed down a bit now and having watched the game again we were very poor
No cohesion or fluidity. I have to confirm that KK got it wrong and we virtually handed them the game from the begining.
But. Just to put things into perspective, we werent battered by a great team. We were 1-0 down after 7 minutes, had a man sent off in the 28th minute, but spurs didnt score their second until after Skrtel got sent off and we were down to 9 men. Then they scored two more goals (68th and 93rd minute) against what was effectively a team that was there for the taking. We either defended very well or they werent good enough to score more.
I am disappointed with the manner we were beaten rather than the score and although Im not someone who moans about referees I have to say that the pr'ick who reffed yesterday was one of the worst Ive seen for a long time. Six yellows and two reds! Do me a Fu*king favour. He was a fussy, bitchy little gobsh'ite who was on an ego trip waving his little coloured cards for the hell of it. I bet he came in his shorts after he totted up his handywork.
W@nker of the highest order who shouldnt even be involved with kids leagues never mnd the PL

[ethanr]

Call me sentimental but I don't think Carragher deserves the pasting some have given him in this thread, having a go at him for the 4th goal ! for f'ucks sake who cares, we were down to 9 men and well beaten by then.

Yeah he's past his best, he's not the quickest and he hoofs stuff, he also reads the game better than most and would f'ucking die for us !  Was it his fault he had Skrtel at RB, a once again FRAGILE Agger alongside him and a non existent central midfield (Lucas & Adam) in front of him ?

Sorry Cig, think you're out of order to throw the sink at Carra, but do agree with much of the other stuff you've said.

Adam, looked good for Blackpool, now that the spotlight is on him looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights

Henderson, one for the future perhaps ? just don't understand why he's getting so much game time now

Carrol,  I said six months ago he "looked like a lump, we may as well plant a lamp post up front and bounce balls off it" , my opinion hasn't changed.

Finally, admittedly one of our more talented players BUT am I the only one that thinks Suarez needs to shut the f'uck up, and instead of falling down at every opportunity instead tries to stand up and get on with it ?

Car crash of a performance from the team as a whole, we were never in it. Could continue to moan about individual players they were sh'ite, but ultimately the blame rests at the managers door.

Gotta agree with that especially the Carra part..
As a team, we arent looking too comfortable defending through the middle and for me that has much more to do with the midfielders positioning than it does the CBs making mistakes.
Another thing regarding the hoof comments, the manager surely understands that CBs when short of options are better off playing it long rather than gambling possession in dangerous areas. For me, Lucas, Adam and the fullbacks need to show more (or better) for balls from the back to get attacks started. Thats were Johnson for me becomes a key player in the side and a large part of the reason why Adam's lack of mobility holds us back when he plays in a deeper role.

On Suarez, while I understand why hes frustrated with the players around him, its never nice seeing players going to the ground easily or protesting decisions too much. For me its not that big an issue; as soon as we starting dominating games again and beating sides he'll get over it imo..

Is a bit harsh on Carra.  I think bringing the bad parts to the table, Carra has been making a lot of mistakes, and he does just hoof the fooking sh!te out of the ball every time he touches it, but if he weren't there I worry there would be no leader at defense.  He knows what he's talking about and know's how to control the others.  Coates and him need to play together now because he can teach Coates how to be a great player, just like he taught Flanno, Kelly and Robinson.  I'm not saying any of them are, but the way he helped them adapt to the games they played in was incredible.

On Suarez, I also agree.  It bothers me when he goes down too easy, but to be honest he really doesn't get much from the refs.  Part of that is probably because they think he just dives all the time, when in reality he likes to make a meal of the smaller fouls.  Then, when he really gets fouled badly or in the box, refs don't believe him even tho he's clearly fouled. 

Twice now he's gotten cards for his mouth, and that's just stupid.

[eds]

Unfortunately, our problems this season are pretty much our own doing. The transfers for me were the biggest problem and aside from Enrique and Suarez (30mill or so combined) we wasted around 90mill on players who are either not good enough or arent suited to our style of play. From day1 when we were linked to all of Carroll, Adam and Henderson, their shortcomings were pretty obvious to everyone who had ever seen them play and it was always going to be difficult for Kenny to get them to up their games enough for it to be acceptable for a club of our size. We got the whole established in the PL nonsense from some and others went on about how Henderson is the next Beckham or how we did better than ManUtd in the market but it was all obviously nonsense.
To make matters worse, we sold our best player last season (imo) to potential rivals and sent our most creative midfielder out on loan for no obvious reason.

Heres the gist of things, our problems began before a ball was kicked with all the wrong transfers from Kenny. It was always going to be absolutely vital for the future of the club that we get the transfers right when we spend big, and unfortunately we didnt. A couple of weeks ago, it became pretty much clear to me that we were back to being a one man team with Suarez being relied on to be the creative force as well as score the goals. Its not promising regardless of his form that we'd look as such given the spending on revamping the squad.

Solutions? Unfortunately, we've left ourselves a little exposed in the middle by gambling the way we did on Adam and Henderson doing the business. Neither is anywhere near the quality required for a top side (although Adam could prove a decent buy if his role is modified) an they both need to be dropped as soon as possible. Leaves us with a bit of a gap in the middle if they are both absent but if Gerrard is back and stays clear of injuries then we might have a fighting chance of getting that 4th spot. I think we need to get Spearing in the starting 11 at least until Jan to stabilize the  defensive side of things, and start using Downing on the left flank where he is most effective while bringing Kuyt back to the right flank where he's always been effective at least in terms of goals. I also feel strongly about giving Maxi more game time than hes had so far. I think hes done very well in recent times when given the chance, and it must be disappointing for players like him and Meireles finding their opportunities limited because inferior players who offer much less are preferred by the manager.

Kenny needs to stop being so stubborn about his selections if not tactics. Because atm, things arent looking good for the side and I expect things to get worse before they get better. Gerrard's return will give the side a boost but in Jan we'll need to try and rectify our mistakes in the transfer market by bringing in a dominant CM and a creative attacking player.

Pretty much sums up where we are at the moment.

Really don't understand the obsession with this "British is best bulls**t" that continues to be sprouted all over this forum.

We bought good players that will get us results here and there, whether we can challenge for 4th spot or any cups this season is a different matter altogether.

What is worrying is the amount of money spent on good but not great players...................

[Kharhaz]

this thread cracks me up.

One minute we are over the moon with everything, and a couple of defeats later we in serious trouble and need more signings !   All in a thread started by someone we havent seen when things were going well. Doom and gloom merchant thread? yeah, without a doubt.

[Reg]

Ive calmed down a bit now

You're too emotional mate, you need to get in touch with your feminine side.....