Liverpool FC Forum

[JC_81]

If he went in for 50-50 balls and generally looked more interested and hungry, folks would have more sympathy.

He´s a squad player whether he likes it or not.

But he's a centre forward, not a mdfielder and shouldn't be called upon to make many tackles. As a striker/CF, you usually have the ball played to you.

The bottom line is that he's being played out of position and more importantly in a position he's unquestionably not suited to.

I dont remember Kenny or Rushie being pussies.

Dalglish got the boot in, but I don't seem to remember Ian Rush getting his skinny involved in too many tackles   

Cant let that go.
Ian Rush was the first line of defence and often came back into midfield to win the ball and start an attack.
I think you need to dust off some of those old videos and stop speaking sh!te about a ledgend.

Agreed Rush job.

Rushie was highly regarded in the game for his tracking back, anyone who actually watched him play will tell you.  Anyone who says otherwise obviously never watched him, simple as that.

[Dutchsky]

I Kuyt ? the 10 million clinical striker who still cant control a ball to save his life ? Kuyt hasnt improved one bit in my books... hes still a poor poor player who works hard... fact that hes scoring more goals atm is the only reason he isnt getting as much stick... as soon as they dry up everyone will get back to singling him out as a weak link... he's getting into good position now but again... as a player i dont think hes improved..

So your saying: regarding Kuyt it's ok to use different standards to judge a player?
Because all players have matches they play like #$#; Torres, Gerrard etc etc
They never get the stick as much as Kuyt.

So your waiting for Kuyt to not score, so then you can criticise him again?
Coz now he only has been 'lucky' and scores goals.
Very important goals not to forget. He made more money for Liverpool already then Liverpool payed for his transfer.

He has improven a lot. He is much stronger then beginning. More consistent, see's the game better. Adopted to the english way of play very well.
And gives his all every single match. Even if he plays like . He will always give 200% for the club.

And he copes very well with the level op play.

[puroresu]

His not a winger as its all good saying his useless but u have to ask who signed him?  Rafa spent a lot of money on a player with no real plan on how to get the best out of him.

[LFC2007]

I don't think he has long-term future with us. Having seen him over a season and a bit now, I don't think he's able to play with Torres, and he's miles behind Riera on the left. Aside from the fact that he doesn't seem to fit in anywhere, I just don't think he's good enough and no amount of coaching or man management will alter that fact. He'll probably stay until the end of the season acting almost exclusively as an impact sub before being sold back to Ajax.

[aCe']

I Kuyt ? the 10 million clinical striker who still cant control a ball to save his life ? Kuyt hasnt improved one bit in my books... hes still a poor poor player who works hard... fact that hes scoring more goals atm is the only reason he isnt getting as much stick... as soon as they dry up everyone will get back to singling him out as a weak link... he's getting into good position now but again... as a player i dont think hes improved..

So your saying: regarding Kuyt it's ok to use different standards to judge a player?
Because all players have matches they play like #$#; Torres, Gerrard etc etc
They never get the stick as much as Kuyt.

So your waiting for Kuyt to not score, so then you can criticise him again?
Coz now he only has been 'lucky' and scores goals.
Very important goals not to forget. He made more money for Liverpool already then Liverpool payed for his transfer.

He has improven a lot. He is much stronger then beginning. More consistent, see's the game better. Adopted to the english way of play very well.
And gives his all every single match. Even if he plays like . He will always give 200% for the club.

And he copes very well with the level op play.

what different standards ?
Kuyt is not a good player... he's a hard worker and he's been chipping in with the goals this season and thats why he gets credit... deservedly so.

You can't really compare him to Gerrard or Torres in terms of ability or consistency in terms of high level with end product performances... they have a one off game but their leel pf player throughout the season allows them to get way with it..

Im not waiting for Kuyt to stop coring or anything i'd love for im to go out and score a hattrick every freaggin game but i just dont think he's capable of doing anywhere near as well as you seem to believe he can... He's a striker played out of position simply because he isnt good enough to playe there... and guess what, he isnt a good right winger either so its only a matter of time before we get enough funds or whatever to go out and get us a decent right winger.... where does he go from there... id love to think he'll stay as backup but thene again i think wait... we at liverpool know he isnt the best of strikers...isnt the best of right wingers... we know we dont have buckets of many to spend (or atleast we dont think we do)... we might aswell get rid when his value is at a high...

ATM he's doing a very good job for the team... one of our best players this season simply because of the goals hes scored... if he stops scoring... all of a sudden we'r back to square one... we'r back to talking about wide player being craap and lack of quality in the squad in comparison...

If you ask me .. he hasnt improved alot... he doesnt read the game any better... he still has a poor touch and still loses good possession way too much.. he lacks flair and creativity... overall a decent striker and an averge right winger... Fletcher has scored some very important goals for ManUtd this season..i dont see the ManUtd fans talking much about him... they know he's a very limited player... and very much like Kuyt, he might once in a while go through a good spell and score some vital goals and chip in with a few important assists... but end of the day... he quite simply lacks quality to be a dependable starting 11 option...

back to talking about Babel now please this board has seen enough Kuyt debates and everyone knows all there is to know about him !

[LiverpoolMadman]

I Kuyt ? the 10 million clinical striker who still cant control a ball to save his life ? Kuyt hasnt improved one bit in my books... hes still a poor poor player who works hard... fact that hes scoring more goals atm is the only reason he isnt getting as much stick... as soon as they dry up everyone will get back to singling him out as a weak link... he's getting into good position now but again... as a player i dont think hes improved..

So your saying: regarding Kuyt it's ok to use different standards to judge a player?
Because all players have matches they play like #$#; Torres, Gerrard etc etc
They never get the stick as much as Kuyt.

So your waiting for Kuyt to not score, so then you can criticise him again?
Coz now he only has been 'lucky' and scores goals.
Very important goals not to forget. He made more money for Liverpool already then Liverpool payed for his transfer.

He has improven a lot. He is much stronger then beginning. More consistent, see's the game better. Adopted to the english way of play very well.
And gives his all every single match. Even if he plays like . He will always give 200% for the club.

And he copes very well with the level op play.

Kuyt have been a better player this season because he have been playing in the Right Midfield for the whole of last season or in other words, Rafa have been giving him 'green" light to play.

As for Babel, he's "lucky" if Rafa let him play.

Why Babel play so well in International ( Dutch National Team ) but When he played for Liverpool , he "suck" ?

[aCe']

I don't think he has long-term future with us. Having seen him over a season and a bit now, I don't think he's able to play with Torres, and he's miles behind Riera on the left. Aside from the fact that he doesn't seem to fit in anywhere, I just don't think he's good enough and no amount of coaching or man management will alter that fact. He'll probably stay until the end of the season acting almost exclusively as an impact sub before being sold back to Ajax.

He doesnt seem to fit in anywhere sums it all up really... He's a second striker imo... someone who get the ball from deep and attacks the space between the midfielders and defenders... never in a million years a striker that can be played alone upfront... the position he played against Tottenham in the cup after Torres was brought off was his natural position imo... going wide to recieve the ball from winger and bringing it deeper in with his dribbling skills and all... he was at the day but i think that coulld quite well be the only role he can play.. Sort of like Kaka with Milan or Ronaldo last year with the Mancs but with all the difference in the quality...

I still think that with good coaching he could very well turn out to be a top player... hes very direct and has pace and can dribble... only thing he lacks in my books is a brain... alot like Nani is for ManUtd... if Nani can do it for Man nuts in a few years (and i expect him to) then theres no reason Babel cant do it for us in a few years as well..

loaning him back to Ajax or to an Italian or spanish side would be very good for him and for the club imo.... But the way things stand i wouldnt mind, and wouldnt be surprised if we end up selling him end of the season...

[Bad Bob]

only thing he lacks in my books is a brain...

Which no amount of training will ever be able to compensate for.  I love how Kuyt gets pulled up (again) for his poor touch and positioning despite being in the form of his Liverpool career at the moment, yet we're somehow supposed to look past the fact that Babel picks the wrong option 9 times out of 10?  IMO, we've seen plenty to suggest that Babel will never make the grade mentally (not even mentioning his lack of bottle) and that we might strongly consider cutting our losses come summer and moving him on.

[Owzat]

He's not the only one being played out of position, in the last few games he's played on the wing, Carragher at RB and Kuyt is often camped out on the wing. Babel is lucky to get as much time on the pitch as he does

Carragher at right back was due to the fact that arbeloa was suspended and degen was out

Still doesn't detract from the fact he's a CB not a RB. We could have brought someone else in

[Owzat]

Failing that we might be able to sell him and Dossena for 15m combined and pick up Owen and a quality left back.

When are you going to give up on the Owen lad? He is never coming back and rightfully so.

Agree.....& dont want him back,far to injury prone,be just paying silly wages & not getting a good enough return!

Six goals this season isn't it, more than injury prone Torres and more than misses Keane. In fact six in just eleven games, so he gets injured a few times but then again that could be down to the Newcastle air because a lot of players go up to St Jim Jams Park and get more than their fair share of injuries.

[club_Levis]

Personally I rate Babel so much and feel he can only improve if given more time to play. Unfortunately this wont happen at Liverpool and the sooner he leaves the better for both parties.People are still ranting about how poor Cisse was/is with little footballing brain just like Babel. I wonder how he cant stop scoring at Sunderland.

[Owzat]

Personally I rate Babel so much and feel he can only improve if given more time to play. Unfortunately this wont happen at Liverpool and the sooner he leaves the better for both parties.People are still ranting about how poor Cisse was/is with little footballing brain just like Babel. I wonder how he cant stop scoring at Sunderland.

At a big club you need to be something near the finished article to be a first team regular. Babel, like so many before, probably thinks he is good enough and signed, not realising that he would have to produce something on the pitch or he wouldn't be in the first team.

He may come good, but honestly I'm thinking he probably won't. I think in the case of Babel he has pace, a few skills, but may never develop any of them sufficiently to be a top player. He's not a striker who will score lots of goals, he's not a winger. So at the moment Rafa utitilises his bits n bobs skills as a sub striker or sticks him on the wing. Unless he becomes a fantastic dribbler, able to beat players and put in decent crosses or shots on target, or scores more often, then I can't see him having a long term future at Anfield. Whether he gets fed up with his role, or Rafa gets fed up with him first is a different story.

If I were to loan him out, I'd probably make it to a Premiership club, maybe a club like Bolton or Stoke. Problem is I'm not convinced he'd be getting regular games at most Premiership clubs and that is saying something.

[DanAn]

Failing that we might be able to sell him and Dossena for 15m combined and pick up Owen and a quality left back.

When are you going to give up on the Owen lad? He is never coming back and rightfully so.

Agree.....& dont want him back,far to injury prone,be just paying silly wages & not getting a good enough return!

Six goals this season isn't it, more than injury prone Torres and more than misses Keane. In fact six in just eleven games, so he gets injured a few times but then again that could be down to the Newcastle air because a lot of players go up to St Jim Jams Park and get more than their fair share of injuries.

In addition to his good form. The argument about his current wage is irrelevant. He has 6 months on his contract so his next contract will be for what he is worth.

Regarding injuries I don't think that will be an issue either. We have Keane and Torres, he not going to have the work load he has at Newcastle.

Regarding other comments about Kuyt.  Right now he is a match winning player. He's done just that in a 1/2 dozen games already this year! and I don't think he's it's good form. I suspect this is the standard we can expect from him. Could it be that 2007 was an aberration that can be attributed to his father dieing?

But on topic Babel could benefit from a loan I think. He could be a great signing for a club like Hull who will look to consolidate on their good start. Hell he could probably start as a striker at Newcastle at the minute.

[Bad Bob]

People are still ranting about how poor Cisse was/is with little footballing brain just like Babel. I wonder how he cant stop scoring at Sunderland.

You answered your own question there.  Cisse's found his level at Sunderland because plenty of teams will fancy their chances and get forward, giving him the room he needs to run in behind. I find it interesting that his dream move back to Marseilles hasn't worked out--further evidence that he's nowhere near as good as the hype suggested (and that some still believe).  He had some skill and was lightning quick but, like Babel, he made some daft decisions and had a tendency to get mardy if things weren't falling for him.  Like Cisse before him, I don't think Babel's a terrible player but I have serious doubts about his suitability for our side given our style of play and the way most opponents set out their stall against us.  I'm happy if he comes off the bench as an impact sub but he's nowhere near ready to be a regular starter--either out wide or up top.  And, since this is Liverpool FC and not Ryan Babel FC, I'd rather we not devote all of our time and energy trying to train or 'man manage' him into readiness, like some seem to be suggesting.  If he can't find it within himself to make the step up and he's not content to be an impact sub, then he can find another club as far as I'm concerned.

[tubby]

Rafa has never let any player hold him ransom and Babel is by no means any different. One more word and he will be out.