Liverpool FC Forum

[dawson99]

address the capitulation 

best use of a word ever!
ive calmed down now and remembered the first half again. still need to sort out something tho, i thought second half comebacks were our speciality

[Ace Ventura]

I'm as disappointed as the next fan, but I can't be ar$ed trawling through this thread because I know exactly what I'll here from the normal doom and gloom mongers, Rafa got it wrong, zenden is sh#t, zonal marking from corners blah blah blah.

I wasn't disappointed with the team selection yesterday - although I would have preferred to see Gerrard in the middle - and I think we started the game with a positive enough approach, so I don't think the manager can be faulted too much for yesterday's performance. He does need to do something about our mental fragility when we go a goal down though. I don't know what the statistics are like, but it seems like we never manage to come back when we go a goal down; especially away from home. We should have come out in the second half with all guns blazing but instead we just capitulated AGAIN. That's the one thing he needs to address most right now.

I was one of the people that thought Zenden should of started, after his MOM performance against Birmingham, and due to the fact that Pennant has been so ineffective i didnt see a better alternative.
I'd of played Warnock left back though and Riise left midfield as i just dont think Gonzalez is ready yet. Never thought i'd be saying this but we are missing Kewell, he gives the team more balance and doesnt give the ball away as often as Gonzalez or Garcia.
Like a few have said, i dont think we performed THAT bad, we were the better side for most of the first half and it was looking promising. Then the midfield switched off....allowing Flamini to break into the area unchallenged and score.
At that point Rafa should of changed it at half time....Gonzalez off Pennant on....Zenden on the left and Gerrard back in the centre. Rafa did make that change, but not until it was 2-0 and virtually game over.
Bellamys goal was onside, the left back played him on...and although it would only of been a consolation it was still a disappointing decision.
I am relieved that we have these fixtures out of the way now, (what a horrific set of away fixtures to start the season with, the worst i can ever remember btw)
I expect the away form to pick up starting with 3 points at Boro. We are easily capable of going on the same kind of runs as we did last season, so chin up eh reds.

[stmichael]

Tough as it is, I think it's important to keep some perspective here.

I'm not Steven Gerrard's biggest fan by any means. I respect him for the class footballer that he is, but I have had big issues with him ever since the Olympiakos game (reverse pyschology or not, the skipper of LFC should not be saying that) and I've never taken him to my heart since then. He spent most of that ultimately glorious season meandering around in the shadows, sulking and generally blaming everybody else for his failures.

We saw more of that yesterday and it really, really annoys me. Pointing and gesturing furiously - instead of gobbing off, go and get the ball back, it's what you do! So what, the ball wasn't perfect, or the run wasn't quite as you wanted... just try that bit harder... we're not getting that from Gerrard at the moment.

It's at this point we need to question where he was played yesterday. I heard Momo was injured when I was on holiday in Pisa - I assumed, in my head, that Pennant would start wide right and that Gerrard would move into the middle.

I think Bolo Zenden is a decent footballer and a good squad player but I do not believe that he is up to central midfield duties against a team as good as Arsenal at their place. He couldn't cope with Fabregas today and that has cost us dearly. Gerrard would have gone up against him a lot more - whether or not he would have won is a different matter, I think Fabregas is top class already.

Everything about the skip is worrying me - body language is appalling, doesn't look happy. Needs to be moved back to the middle.

But if Pennant was farmed out in January, I would be lying if I said I was surprised. Rafa doesn't fancy him at all.

[red37]

But if Pennant was farmed out in January, I would be lying if I said I was surprised. Rafa doesn't fancy him at all.

it seems on the face of it a bizarre comment to make considering Rafa brought him to the club. but in truth i dont think he would have got a look-in had the manager had his way with his first choice target - Alves.

there's little point in lamenting that fact. all that can be said is he was the best of what was available at the time. hardly an inspiration to the lad, granted. and Tbf he is taking a significant amount of flak over his performances, some of it Ott. but the majority borne out of sheer frustration toward his apparant lack of any desire to portray himself any different. he honestly demonstrates nothing to me except self-contentment over the fact that he is now in possession, metaphorically speaking, of the proverbial 'pipe and slippers'.  id be as pleased as punch for him should he step up to the grade and make his mark for Liverpool and good luck to him, if as he says, that is his aim. for the moment though its quite easy to remind ourselves of another 'unfancied' player who is currently out on loan in france awaiting his own day of atonement. anyway, ive said enough.

[LFC #1]

Until we get a mean streak and start showing some f.uckin passion we wont be winning any league in my life time.

As much as I hate to say it that's the difference between us and let's say Man United.

Their sqaud is pretty much on par with ours yet they are out in front of the league. Why? Passion, belief and also playing players in position and having a more or less soild starting eleven, i.e. no rotation.

Sorry mate, but that is utter b*llocks.

The Scum's rotation record this season is on a par with ours.

Sky SPorts put the stats up, and while Rafa has changed the team something like 19 times, Red nose had done it 17.

Rotation isn't the problem. It's all very well saying "it doesn't work in England", but if Ugg the caveman had thought "flint and dry leaves don't do anything", we could still be sh*tting in the woods today.

Have a little faith.

Fair enough, on that point you have proven my foolishness but you can't deny that they are playing with more passion and belirf than us at the moment, they get results even if they don't play so well. The table tells it's own story.

[Ola Mr Benitez]

why are people so surprised we got beat.

In my opinion we are still only the 4th best team in the league behind Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal.  You just have to look at our record since Rafa Benitez took over. I think its something like 7 point out of a possible 45.

I am still 100% behind Rafa but we need to give him more time.  Anyone who thought we where going to win the league this season is 2 seasons premature in my eyes. Yesterday, we where outclassed and outpassed. That doesn't mean we have to go back to the drawing board, it just means this year we have to accept we aint gonna win the league.

I am trying to look for some positives from yesterday, but to be honest I cant think of any...

[puroresu]

why are people so surprised we got beat.

In my opinion we are still only the 4th best team in the league behind Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal.  You just have to look at our record since Rafa Benitez took over. I think its something like 7 point out of a possible 45.

I am still 100% behind Rafa but we need to give him more time.  Anyone who thought we where going to win the league this season is 2 seasons premature in my eyes. Yesterday, we where outclassed and outpassed. That doesn't mean we have to go back to the drawing board, it just means this year we have to accept we aint gonna win the league.

I am trying to look for some positives from yesterday, but to be honest I cant think of any...

We should still be competing with these sides though.  We get beat too easily and never look like winning.  Thats not good enough.

[account deleted by request]

JAMIE CARRAGHER admitted he was 'hurt' by the lack of character shown by Liverpool as they slumped to another demoralising away setback.

The 3-0 loss to Arsenal was the fifth away defeat of the season, prompting manager Rafa Benitez to question the spirit of his players once they go behind.

Carragher agreed the team'snegative reaction to Mathieu Flamini's opening goal contributed to a poor second half.

The defender believes the Reds must now focus on reclaiming a top four position as soon as possible, and take consolation from the fact the most demanding fixtures of the campaign are, thankfully, gone.

"It's another disappointing result, but we've got to try and look ahead now," he said. "You never want to look beyond the next game, but we've got to remember what we did this time last season and put together a long unbeaten run now.

"A lot of the toughest away fixtures have gone and we know we've got to make sure we improve on our away performances.

"Obviously, we've got to start to show more character away from home, particularly when we go a goal down.

"Showing the right character is one of the qualities I've always been proud to be associated with most, so it hurts me to think people don't think we're showing enough of it now.

"In these types of game, the first goal is always so important because of the quality of the opposition.

"It's the same when we score first. It's a long time since we lost a game in which we scored first, so we've got to do more to get ourselves in front in the away games.

"Psychologically it's hurt us, and then losing another at the start of the second half has made it even more difficult against a team of Arsenal's quality."

Those who still harboured outside hopes of a Liverpool title bid will feel they've been completely diminished by the latest defeat.

Carragher says the immediate priority has to be to secure a Champions League spot.

"We'll never throw in the towel at Liverpool, but the first thing we've got to do is to get ourselves into the top four," he said.

"We had big ambitions at the start of the season, which is only right at a club like Liverpool, but we also know it's important to make sure we're in the top four as soon as possible,and then we can start thinking about what's above us.

"There's still a long way to go, and Arsenal, Manchester United and Chelsea will all have to come to Anfield during the second half of the season.

"We did well to win five games on the run after losing to United, and now we've got to put a longer winning run together."

Manager Benitez felt his side mentallycrumbled after conceding the opening goal.


"We need to show more character when we concede," he said. "First of all, we shouldn't be conceding so easy, but when you make these kinds of mistakes you need to show character and do your best.


"It's clear we are having problems when we concede, especially when we play good teams that play with the quality Arsenal have.


"The players must be really disappointed. When you win, you can be proud, but when you lose like this to a big club like Arsenal or Manchester United you can't be happy."

          -------------------------------------------
Manager Benitez felt his side mentallycrumbled after conceding the opening goal.

Says it all really!

[HOMER]

how many liverpool players would get into the arsenal team - gerrard ?
how many liverpool players would get into manure - gerrard ?
how many liverpool players would get into chelski team - ?

says it all really - no wonder we're no closer to winning he league !

[Judge]

was in preston with the woman yesterday, and i must say i wasnt impressed with liverpools performanace at all

[LFC #1]

how many liverpool players would get into the arsenal team - gerrard ?
how many liverpool players would get into manure - gerrard ?
how many liverpool players would get into chelski team - ?

says it all really - no wonder we're no closer to winning he league !

Alonso, Carragher, Kuyt, Gerrard - all more than good enough.

[Redman in wales]

from lfc.tv:

RAFA: WE MUST START WINNING  (no sh.it sherlock!)

  Rafael Benitez insists he is not thinking about the title race after watching his side slump to a 3-0 defeat at the Emirates. 
However, the Liverpool boss believes his side will now have an easier ride on their travels having already played Man United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Everton away from Anfield.
 
"I am not thinking about the title race," said the Spaniard.
 
"The only thing that matters is the next game and we need to start winning away if we are going to be closer.
 
"It is clear this is not good enough. We know we need to improve. We need to show character and show our quality.
 
"I have some ideas but I need to work with the players until the next game.
 
"Maybe now we are playing against teams away who don't have the same quality. But we need to stop talking and start winning away."
 
Benitez believes the Reds' poor away form, which has yielded just one point from a possible 18, is partly down to their inability to score first.
 
He said: "We need to score first but we are conceding first and we cannot score and go on to win games.

----------

that last bit worries me.  if he just says that to the press and knows different then thats fine, but surely the problem is not one of 'we need to score first' but surely it is one of 'if we conceed - how do we get back  into the match?' - the first goal should never decide the outcome of a match, there should always be a way of pulling one back, or going onto win

[HOMER]

alonso better than ballack, makalele, fabregas, gilberto, scholes ?
carra better than terry, carvalho, gallas, toure, ferdinand, vidic ?
kuyt better than henry, van persie, sheva, drogba, saha, rooney ?

[roey316]

Anyone ever read that Paul Tomkins fella on the LFC.tv site? I would love to see what he comes out with this week to defend that performance.
If you are going to win the title you have to pick up points at the most difficult away grounds, i.e. Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal and your derby team. We picked up, as well all know, nil point. Bolton are a bogey team of ours and a newly promoted teams first game is always a t*at of an opening fixture, but then Chelsea did it last season so there is no excuse.
Even if we beat the Top 3 and Everton at home we wont break the top 3. Looks like another season of cup runs boys.

[67-1161385641]

JAMIE CARRAGHER admitted he was 'hurt' by the lack of character shown by Liverpool as they slumped to another demoralising away setback.

The 3-0 loss to Arsenal was the fifth away defeat of the season, prompting manager Rafa Benitez to question the spirit of his players once they go behind.

Carragher agreed the team'snegative reaction to Mathieu Flamini's opening goal contributed to a poor second half.

The defender believes the Reds must now focus on reclaiming a top four position as soon as possible, and take consolation from the fact the most demanding fixtures of the campaign are, thankfully, gone.

"It's another disappointing result, but we've got to try and look ahead now," he said. "You never want to look beyond the next game, but we've got to remember what we did this time last season and put together a long unbeaten run now.

"A lot of the toughest away fixtures have gone and we know we've got to make sure we improve on our away performances.

"Obviously, we've got to start to show more character away from home, particularly when we go a goal down.

"Showing the right character is one of the qualities I've always been proud to be associated with most, so it hurts me to think people don't think we're showing enough of it now.

"In these types of game, the first goal is always so important because of the quality of the opposition.

"It's the same when we score first. It's a long time since we lost a game in which we scored first, so we've got to do more to get ourselves in front in the away games.

"Psychologically it's hurt us, and then losing another at the start of the second half has made it even more difficult against a team of Arsenal's quality."

Those who still harboured outside hopes of a Liverpool title bid will feel they've been completely diminished by the latest defeat.

Carragher says the immediate priority has to be to secure a Champions League spot.

"We'll never throw in the towel at Liverpool, but the first thing we've got to do is to get ourselves into the top four," he said.

"We had big ambitions at the start of the season, which is only right at a club like Liverpool, but we also know it's important to make sure we're in the top four as soon as possible,and then we can start thinking about what's above us.

"There's still a long way to go, and Arsenal, Manchester United and Chelsea will all have to come to Anfield during the second half of the season.

"We did well to win five games on the run after losing to United, and now we've got to put a longer winning run together."

Manager Benitez felt his side mentallycrumbled after conceding the opening goal.


"We need to show more character when we concede," he said. "First of all, we shouldn't be conceding so easy, but when you make these kinds of mistakes you need to show character and do your best.


"It's clear we are having problems when we concede, especially when we play good teams that play with the quality Arsenal have.


"The players must be really disappointed. When you win, you can be proud, but when you lose like this to a big club like Arsenal or Manchester United you can't be happy."

          -------------------------------------------
Manager Benitez felt his side mentallycrumbled after conceding the opening goal.

Says it all really!

Instead of talking the good talk, why not walk the good walk? I'm fed up of all these needless interviews with manager and player when all they do is state the obvious. If they know what's wrong why don't they do something about it?