Liverpool FC Forum

[Scottbot]

What I'd love to see more of in these situations are clever one-twos at the edge of the area.  Crouch and Gerrard showed they are capable of this last season.

Spot on. We saw it time and time again last season: Crouch on the edge of the box with his back to goal, Gerrard pings the ball into his feet, Stevie bombs on, instant return ball, bang! it's in the back of the net. much of the credit for Gerrard's season last year should go to Crouch. Things are different this year though with Stevie back in the middle (and doing a very good job i may add) he has rediscovered the defensive part of his game and is playing with more discipline. However, he isn't roaming the pitch in that free-role (and that's essentially what it was) and getting on the ball in the final third anywhere near as often as last season so haven't seen anything like the same goal return this time out.

[Ola Mr Benitez]

Thanks Bob.  I think I have quoted one goal from 10 shots somewhere, so I wasn't far off.

Cheers

[Ade]

I said recently that stats are often manipulated and used out of context, but in such cases as these they do serve some constructive purpose. I don't believe, based on what I already know, and what I've found, that this magical "20 goal a season" striker is absoultely essential in reaching your targets. However, a team that overpowers, and beats it's opposition comfortably, definitely is.

This might surprise a few people here, but our strikers are doing almost identically to Utd's. Yet man utd have scored about 20 goals more. Our top League scorer is Kuyt with 9. Theirs is Rooney with 10. Next for us is Bellamy with 7. They have Saha on 8. Crouch is on 6 for us, with solskjaer also on 6.

Infact, Drogba, ironically, is far and away the biggest source of goals for his team of any of the top clubs, yet Chelsea are having their least productive season for three years. Arsenal have 2 games in hand over us, yet have scored 6 goals more, despite only being in fourth place. Even Reading have outscored us so far. Scoring's definitely not something we do freely yet. Though just attributing that to the strikers is somewhat unfair.

Now it's difficult to use such stats to prove any one thing for certain... however, one thing that really should stand out, as it did for me, is the inconsistency of it all.

That's where the answer lies in my opinion.

Drogba has scored 17 goals.... chelsea are in second....henry and van persie have scored 20 between them, arsenal are in fourth, man utd have scored shitloads, but their top scoring striker has only the same amount as ours...

None of it means a thing..... except this - the top teams are the ones that do well overall.

Man utd, out of all the clubs mentioned, are the only ones who's displays week in week out are constantly overwhelming opponents. Put simply, their goals are coming from everywhere. Ronaldo has chipped in with an amazing 15 so far, taking the tally for Utd's midfielders to 30 goals. More than double our paltry tally of 13. Add to that the decent contributions of rooney, saha, and solskjaer, and that's why you're looking at the probable league winners for 2007.

If Ronaldo is still at utd next season, I don't expect him to equal his goal scoring feats of this. But when he goes off the boil, Rooney has all the talent to make an equally impressive contribution, and if he's not firing on full cylinders, then scholes or saha are always likely to make something happen.

Put simply, if you rely on one aspect of your team to provide, you're always likely to hit a bump in the road when they don't step up. We need all round quality. Something we still don't have. And especially we need quality out on either flank.

In my opinion, our strikers are good quality, but the attention placed on them missing a chance or two is far greater because, as you say, there are less likely contributors elsewhere. Garcia being injured is obviously a massive blow for us because you could always guarantee him getting double figures in the goalscoring stakes every season.

I bet man utd have won a fair few games by one goal instead of two because rooney or saha's missed a sitter.

Kuyt or Bellamy do that and it's a draw or a loss unfortunately.

That's the difference between champions and also rans.

Liverpool

Crouch - 13 (6 prem, 1 league cup, 6 european/other)
Kuyt - 10 (9 prem, 1 league cup)
Bellamy - 8 (7 prem, 1 european/other)
Fowler - 5 (1 prem, 2 league cup, 2 european/other)

Total Goals From Strikers = 36 (23 prem)

Arsenal

Henry - 12 (10 prem, 1 FA, 1 Euro/other)
Van Persie - 13 (11 prem, 2 Euro/other)
Baptista - 7 (0 prem, 6 league cup, 1 euro/other)
Adebeyor - 10 (6 prem, 2 FA, 2 LEague Cup)

Total = 42 (27 prem)

Manchester United

Rooney - 12 (10 prem, 2 FA)
Saha - 12 (8 Prem, 4 Euro Other)
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer - 9 (6 Prem, 1 fa, 1 LC, 1 euro/other)
Larson - 2 (1 league, 1 FA)

total = 35 (25 prem)

Chelsea

Kalou - 3 (2 prem, 1 league cup)
drogba - 26 (17prem, 2 fa, 2 league cup, 5 euro/other)
Shevchenko - 10 (3 prem, 2 FA, 3LEague cup, 2Euro/other)

Total = 39 (22 prem)

I still firmly believe though that one clinical finisher with a bit of pace added to the squad would make a huge difference. I like Villa but ultimately Rafa will make his choice. If you add a creative wide man who can cross and score some goals it would be a massive addition. Man U have got 16 goals this year from their first pick right winger we have got 1. Just my opinion!

Good post, totally agree. I like Alonso, but he doesn't chip in with enough goals. Pennant never will, Gerrard can't bang in 23 every season, Sissoko won't get more than 3 or 4 a year, and neither will the Monster Masch.

Hence we need to stop over-emphasising the value of hardworking forwards and sign a goal machine

The problem with that it's just one goal-machine. When that goal-machine doesn't play we're back to square one.

The problem is our players aren't scoring enough goals. Not just strikers, but everyone in general.

Chelsea's and Man Utd's defenders chip in with the goals.

Ours don't do enough of that. Carragher has scored once this season and probably wont score for another 14 years. Finnan, as much as I love his attitude,commitment, and the fact that he's improved when going forwards, he still has only scored one goal since he's signed with us.

Alonso is capable of scoring more and should score more if possible. The problem is that we don't have wingers who offer goal threat. Where as Man Utd and Chelsea[used to] do.

We need to do more than just sign one particular player.

Yep, of course we need to sign more than one player, we need to sign 3, maybe four at the most, but one of those needs to be a goal machine, because we don't have one. We need a balance in our strike force, and with Kuyt, Bellamy and Crouch we have the hard worker, the pacey man and the big guy with the hold-up skills. But where's the 20-goal a season striker? It wouldn't unbalance the side to have one.

If we were to go for heinze, villa, ashton and Alves we'd be in clover next season.

[club_Levis]

I definitely agree with St. Mick, AB and Ace: we need more goalscoring and goal creating from the midfield.  With Stevie having an off year by his standards and with Garcia and Kewell injured, we're really suffering in terms of goals from midfield.

I would also mention that both United and Chelsea are more productive at scoring from set pieces (I don't have the stats but I'm sure they'd bear me out on this).  Vidic and Terry are a goal threat from corners.  Ronaldo and Lampard get a fair few of their goals from free kicks etc.  Our set pieces have been generally woeful the past few seasons...especially as Sami sees fewer minutes (Agger's got a nice strike from distance but doesn't offer the same aerial threat from set pieces).

As for our strikers missing chances, I'd say that while that's true in some recent games (Newcastle and Blackburn away, for instance) generally, they've converted at a decent rate.  More concerning to me is our lack of ideas when teams sit deep and try and shut up shop against us.  The strikers have no space in which to operate in those situations because we don't have the creativity in wide positions to stretch the defense and open holes in and around the the area.  A world-class winger who can take a fullback on, put in a decent cross, pick out teammates in good positions and chip in with 8-10 goals per season is a must buy this summer, IMO.

[B]A world-class winger who can take a fullback on, put in a decent cross, pick out teammates in good positions and chip in with 8-10 goals per season is a must buy this summer...

I cant think any further than Ricardo Quaresma to easily fill this position IMO

[stmichael]

It's just too simplistic to say we need a 25 goal man to win the title, it's about ALL your players performing consistently well throughout the season, and the goals will flow from all positions.

Crystal Palace had Andy Johnson scoring 21 goals two seasons ago and look where they are now.

Also, I'll tell you why we struggle to score headers, we never, ever, ever get a ball across the face of goal with pace from the by-line in front of, or dissecting the first line of defence, everything is floated in, so all the power has to come from the forward and its hard to attack a ball thats coming from behind you with no pace.

Granted, Crouch will never be prolific with his head, but Kuyt could be.

Is it a coincidence that Moro struggled, despite being one of the best headers of the ball in Europe?

[redmikey]

i feel that under rafa we have played some of the best football since roy evans was boss, we attack fast and as a team with some of the best passing apart from arsenal, and it tends to be against the bigger teams as well chavski this year juve 05 etc , this in alot of ways is because rafa has employed a different mentalilty to anything we had seen before at lfc, with money rafa will achieve greatness

[A.B.]

It's just too simplistic to say we need a 25 goal man to win the title, it's about ALL your players performing consistently well throughout the season, and the goals will flow from all positions.

Crystal Palace had Andy Johnson scoring 21 goals two seasons ago and look where they are now.

Also, I'll tell you why we struggle to score headers, we never, ever, ever get a ball across the face of goal with pace from the by-line in front of, or dissecting the first line of defence, everything is floated in, so all the power has to come from the forward and its hard to attack a ball thats coming from behind you with no pace.

Granted, Crouch will never be prolific with his head, but Kuyt could be.

Is it a coincidence that Moro struggled, despite being one of the best headers of the ball in Europe?

Bingo. Signing a Samuel Eto'o won't change the fact that the rest of the squad isn't prolific enough in front of goal.

[jaytoothetee]

some good points in here. we definitely struggle against the teams whobtry to sit in (look at at today. we had utd pinned back for most of the 2nd half, but still failed to score. our one clear chance was crouch's at the end.) i know it's already been said, but we need wingers who stretch the opposition and get crosses in for dirk (again, look at today's game. every time we got wingers in down the flanks, we'd cut the ball back and float one in. against teams with tall defenders, we'll never score like this)

i think rafa's VERY close to getting it right. one or two quality wingers in for next season (ricardo quaresma and franck ribery?) and a TOP-class striker, and i think we can win the league. the question remains though, who can we sign as a striker. there are plenty of top wingers around, but teams are more reluctant to let go of a top quality goal-scorer. it'll always be that way. there's been a lot of players mentioned, ie eto'o, who personally i don't think would suit our squad, or tevez, who would drop off, and for that reason couldn't play with kuyt (our best striker imo) who is too similar. i'd love to see villa in a red shirt, if rafa could pull the deal off. imo, it's a case of tweaking the side rather than wholesale changes. we only need to believe in rafa. he's the best coach in the world right now, and has a long term plan. just be patient, and in two/three years time, i can see him building a legendary side at anfield to possibly rival the team of the 70's/80's

[Rockthekop]

I wish people would stop deluding themselves, fowler is no longer good enough and crouch is only good at one thing, missing sitters! We need top quality replacements and not more bargain basement players, which crouch is! United have Rooney, Chelsea have Drogba and Arsenal have Henry...we need at least one great striker and a top winger!  Then we might challenge for the premiership

[stoney]

Due to difficulties in the availability of signing the likes of Eto'o and Villa, I wouldn't be surprised if we went in for Adriano at Inter. Hes got all the attributes to do well in the prem. Good in the air, strong, great technique, a monster shot on him plus he has a fair amount of pace. Not to mention is very good at free kicks. Could be a great signing for us and with him being practically frozen out at Inter with crespo and zlatan ahead of him, he may be looking to leave in the summer. Might be available and at a decent price.

[Sabre]

I wish people would stop deluding themselves, fowler is no longer good enough and crouch is only good at one thing, missing sitters! We need top quality replacements and not more bargain basement players, which crouch is! United have Rooney, Chelsea have Drogba and Arsenal have Henry...we need at least one great striker and a top winger!  Then we might challenge for the premiership

Yes, United have Rooney, and what he did in that game? he didn't even manage to be in a position to fail a "sitter". FWIW, I don't think Crouch kicked that ball badly, I saw a superb save, that's all.

My point is not saying Crouch is better than Rooney. My point is that I'm fed up of the underrating of our strikers. A game like yesterday is very frustrating, because each of the sides will have few chances. And it's even more frustrating if one of our underrated strikers make a goal in one of the few clear chances and it's disallowed.

I was frustrated enough with the draw because I thought we were the team we deserved to win. But that latter goal removed even my will to come here and comment the game , even if that's not the first time I've seen that happening in football. What I think it's not fair after a game like yesterday it's to come here and underrate our strikers. Because yesterday they did a lot of job, scored a goal, and did all round a good work. If someone deserves some criticism it's Sissoko who had an awful game, I don't think our strikers need yet another slating.

[lio]

. . . I don't think our strikers need yet another slating.

well said ... 

[jaytoothetee]

. . . I don't think our strikers need yet another slating.

well said ... 

no ones saying that our forwards aren't good enough. imo, crouch, bellamy and kuyt could all compliment the likes of villa or eto'o. what people are saying is that we need someone different. none of them are ever going to be truly prolific goal scorers inside the 18yard box. we've missed someone like that since owen left. i know we have GOD, but it doesn't look like he'll be staying at the end of the season.

[The_Rock]

I have mentioned this before.... but i still don' rate kujt. I mean, he gives 100% and all but strikers are ultimately judged by the number of goals he scores...and not how many opposing player he closes down.

Once bellamy went off (who is our best striker), our attack just collasped. With no opposing players running at them with pace, the manure defenders grew in confidence and this ultimately spread to their whole team.

Rafa made a huge mistake of Subbing bellamy.....not sure why he doesn't sub kujt... If anybody needs to be benched (for not performing well or if they are too tired), it is kujt...

[kobashi]

We really need a top World Class striker.  Our strikers should have more goals and there isn an excuse for the lack of goals from them.

Saha was on the bench yesterday. I would gladly have Saha or Larsson instead of our front two.