Liverpool FC Forum

[The_Rock]

Ok...i admit i am wrong....Yeah it was a left forward role in a 4-3-3. formation when we attack and a 4-5-1 formation when we defend....at which point crouch might have to play on the wing.....

Left Wing....Left Attack....only a M0r0n will crouch there...... No other top manager in the world will play crouch on the wings.

[Lando_Griffin]

Ok...i admit i am wrong....Yeah it was a left forward role in a 4-3-3. formation when we attack and a 4-5-1 formation when we defend....at which point crouch might have to play on the wing.....

Left Wing....Left Attack....only a M0r0n will crouch there...... No other top manager in the world will play crouch on the wings.

Why not?

[Ola Mr Benitez]

Ok...i admit i am wrong....Yeah it was a left forward role in a 4-3-3. formation when we attack and a 4-5-1 formation when we defend....at which point crouch might have to play on the wing.....

Left Wing....Left Attack....only a M0r0n will crouch there...... No other top manager in the world will play crouch on the wings.

Why not?

why should crouch not play on the left wing??

No pace, no dribbling skill (is that even a real phrase) and no big lanky striker to aim at if he is on the wing (can't pass to himself can he??)

Its been a long day, I think I need to go to bed

[Paul C]

Yeah I'm worried, Everton & City are hot on our heals and although we have a game in hand we usually slip up and lose them, personally I can't see us finishing higher than fourth cos we have to play Chelsea, United and Arsenal all away, plus the fact were dropping points against the lesser teams like Wigan, etc.

[Kharhaz]

Would be interesting times, and considering our results lately most definately not unlikely. If all we made after this season was a UEFA cup spot who would be to blame? rafa or our new owners, bearing in mind rafa picks the team.

[peterc1992]

we will make top four but we will finish 15 points off the top.iv a feeling we will, as usual play well    when we are OUT of the title race,just need aone or two players in the transfer window.

[The_Rock]

Guys......and Gals..it won't be so easy as last year where we pratically closed 2 eyes and walked to the 3rd position....

Teams like eversh1t, aston villa and man city have improved. So if we still go on as if nothing is wrong with our team at the moment...we will come unstuck.

[PhiLFC]

Yeh I'm worried but on other hand the last time we were this bad we finished 5th and won the Champions League

[burjennio]

PhiLFC Posted on Jan. 07 2008,10:57
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Yeh I'm worried but on other hand the last time we were this bad we finished 5th and won the Champions League

Phil if you think we're playin as bad as 2005 someone has spiked your cornflakes fella! We lost something like 11 away games that season and 3 at home, we're on a different stratosphere to the garbage we churned out in the league that year ,altho I wouldnt say no to another champions league!!!

[JohnBull]

The massive squad we've got at the moment does not need adding to. The wage bill must be enormous as it is and to a large extent the players we've got are, potentially, good enough.

I've said before that there is something wrong with the team, apart from the stupid tactics and rotation or whatever you want to call it. We've a few players with real heart who do their best to get us out of trouble and on some days when the sun's shining and all's right with the world, they have played some lovely football as a team.
Other days you can see heads are down and the ball is treated like a hot coal. Passes are made just to get shut of the ball in case a mistake is made. Players seem to doubt each other and become critical of their team mates. Did everyone see Sammis' reaction to the miss by Kuyt ? There is bound to be a bit of "why bother" creeping in.
I honestly think that Raffa has an incredible knowledge of the game, probably more than any other coach in the Premiership. Unfortunately coaching and management are two completely different skills. I don't think that Fergie spends all day worrying over the next formation but ask him to get 100% out of a player he will and if the player doesn't respond they're gone.
We've got players who need a kick up their jacksies and others who need an arm around the shoulders. We should be coming on to the pitch thinking, make that knowing, that we are the best and that the opposition are there for the taking. The longer I watch Raffas' sides the more I am beginning to think that it is this aspect which is letting us down. I do not think he understands the importance of motivation. He appears to go into too much detail of the opposition and shows a willingness to change our players and/or tactics to suit the "strengths" of the other team. Sometimes you are better off not knowing how good the opposition are and just have belief in yourself. Along the same vein,Joe Calzaghe never looks at videos of his next opponent, he lets the other guy worry. How many stories are there of the greatest motivator of them all, Shanks, spending hours telling the team how the opposition are and then telling them that they had just beat one of the best teams after the match.
Showing too much concern over the next game can encourage doubts in some players. How else can you explain the feeble performance against the Mancs, there was no self belief.
The teams above us at the moment are good but not great sides and we are more than capable of beating them home or away and if a great motivator came in with Raffa I would say that the league is still not out of the equation. The problem is that the stubborn side is never going to allow it and the players will still be treated as if it were a Playstation game without aknowledging they are human and need different handling. Think it's called team spirit, been missing for a good while.

[66-1112520797]

The massive squad we've got at the moment does not need adding to. The wage bill must be enormous as it is and to a large extent the players we've got are, potentially, good enough.

I've said before that there is something wrong with the team, apart from the stupid tactics and rotation or whatever you want to call it. We've a few players with real heart who do their best to get us out of trouble and on some days when the sun's shining and all's right with the world, they have played some lovely football as a team.
Other days you can see heads are down and the ball is treated like a hot coal. Passes are made just to get shut of the ball in case a mistake is made. Players seem to doubt each other and become critical of their team mates. Did everyone see Sammis' reaction to the miss by Kuyt ? There is bound to be a bit of "why bother" creeping in.
I honestly think that Raffa has an incredible knowledge of the game, probably more than any other coach in the Premiership. Unfortunately coaching and management are two completely different skills. I don't think that Fergie spends all day worrying over the next formation but ask him to get 100% out of a player he will and if the player doesn't respond they're gone.
We've got players who need a kick up their jacksies and others who need an arm around the shoulders. We should be coming on to the pitch thinking, make that knowing, that we are the best and that the opposition are there for the taking. The longer I watch Raffas' sides the more I am beginning to think that it is this aspect which is letting us down. I do not think he understands the importance of motivation. He appears to go into too much detail of the opposition and shows a willingness to change our players and/or tactics to suit the "strengths" of the other team. Sometimes you are better off not knowing how good the opposition are and just have belief in yourself. Along the same vein,Joe Calzaghe never looks at videos of his next opponent, he lets the other guy worry. How many stories are there of the greatest motivator of them all, Shanks, spending hours telling the team how the opposition are and then telling them that they had just beat one of the best teams after the match.
Showing too much concern over the next game can encourage doubts in some players. How else can you explain the feeble performance against the Mancs, there was no self belief.
The teams above us at the moment are good but not great sides and we are more than capable of beating them home or away and if a great motivator came in with Raffa I would say that the league is still not out of the equation. The problem is that the stubborn side is never going to allow it and the players will still be treated as if it were a Playstation game without aknowledging they are human and need different handling. Think it's called team spirit, been missing for a good while.

Good point, good post.

[DAV]

JohnBull
Best post ive read on here in months, not more to add- spot on.
So where does this leave Liverpool FC? and where does it leave RB?
Unless something changes personnal wise one way or another. we arnt likley to make any real impact in the League.

[Bad Bob]

The massive squad we've got at the moment does not need adding to. The wage bill must be enormous as it is and to a large extent the players we've got are, potentially, good enough.

I've said before that there is something wrong with the team, apart from the stupid tactics and rotation or whatever you want to call it. We've a few players with real heart who do their best to get us out of trouble and on some days when the sun's shining and all's right with the world, they have played some lovely football as a team.
Other days you can see heads are down and the ball is treated like a hot coal. Passes are made just to get shut of the ball in case a mistake is made. Players seem to doubt each other and become critical of their team mates. Did everyone see Sammis' reaction to the miss by Kuyt ? There is bound to be a bit of "why bother" creeping in.
I honestly think that Raffa has an incredible knowledge of the game, probably more than any other coach in the Premiership. Unfortunately coaching and management are two completely different skills. I don't think that Fergie spends all day worrying over the next formation but ask him to get 100% out of a player he will and if the player doesn't respond they're gone.
We've got players who need a kick up their jacksies and others who need an arm around the shoulders. We should be coming on to the pitch thinking, make that knowing, that we are the best and that the opposition are there for the taking. The longer I watch Raffas' sides the more I am beginning to think that it is this aspect which is letting us down. I do not think he understands the importance of motivation. He appears to go into too much detail of the opposition and shows a willingness to change our players and/or tactics to suit the "strengths" of the other team. Sometimes you are better off not knowing how good the opposition are and just have belief in yourself. Along the same vein,Joe Calzaghe never looks at videos of his next opponent, he lets the other guy worry. How many stories are there of the greatest motivator of them all, Shanks, spending hours telling the team how the opposition are and then telling them that they had just beat one of the best teams after the match.
Showing too much concern over the next game can encourage doubts in some players. How else can you explain the feeble performance against the Mancs, there was no self belief.
The teams above us at the moment are good but not great sides and we are more than capable of beating them home or away and if a great motivator came in with Raffa I would say that the league is still not out of the equation. The problem is that the stubborn side is never going to allow it and the players will still be treated as if it were a Playstation game without aknowledging they are human and need different handling. Think it's called team spirit, been missing for a good while.

It's a well written post and an interesting take, I'll admit, but it raises a question: do you think Rafa motivates players in a fundamentally different way in the Champions League?  After all, we've taken some of the biggest scalps in Europe during his time at the club and the players usually seem well up for it.  If the lads can play without fear against Barca at the Nou Camp, why would they lack confidence against the Mancs at Anfield?  I can't imagine that Rafa changes his motivating approach fundamentally from competition to competition so there must be more to it than what you've suggested, right?

[LegBarnes]

The massive squad we've got at the moment does not need adding to. The wage bill must be enormous as it is and to a large extent the players we've got are, potentially, good enough.

I've said before that there is something wrong with the team, apart from the stupid tactics and rotation or whatever you want to call it. We've a few players with real heart who do their best to get us out of trouble and on some days when the sun's shining and all's right with the world, they have played some lovely football as a team.
Other days you can see heads are down and the ball is treated like a hot coal. Passes are made just to get shut of the ball in case a mistake is made. Players seem to doubt each other and become critical of their team mates. Did everyone see Sammis' reaction to the miss by Kuyt ? There is bound to be a bit of "why bother" creeping in.
I honestly think that Raffa has an incredible knowledge of the game, probably more than any other coach in the Premiership. Unfortunately coaching and management are two completely different skills. I don't think that Fergie spends all day worrying over the next formation but ask him to get 100% out of a player he will and if the player doesn't respond they're gone.
We've got players who need a kick up their jacksies and others who need an arm around the shoulders. We should be coming on to the pitch thinking, make that knowing, that we are the best and that the opposition are there for the taking. The longer I watch Raffas' sides the more I am beginning to think that it is this aspect which is letting us down. I do not think he understands the importance of motivation. He appears to go into too much detail of the opposition and shows a willingness to change our players and/or tactics to suit the "strengths" of the other team. Sometimes you are better off not knowing how good the opposition are and just have belief in yourself. Along the same vein,Joe Calzaghe never looks at videos of his next opponent, he lets the other guy worry. How many stories are there of the greatest motivator of them all, Shanks, spending hours telling the team how the opposition are and then telling them that they had just beat one of the best teams after the match.
Showing too much concern over the next game can encourage doubts in some players. How else can you explain the feeble performance against the Mancs, there was no self belief.
The teams above us at the moment are good but not great sides and we are more than capable of beating them home or away and if a great motivator came in with Raffa I would say that the league is still not out of the equation. The problem is that the stubborn side is never going to allow it and the players will still be treated as if it were a Playstation game without aknowledging they are human and need different handling. Think it's called team spirit, been missing for a good while.

It's a well written post and an interesting take, I'll admit, but it raises a question: do you think Rafa motivates players in a fundamentally different way in the Champions League?  After all, we've taken some of the biggest scalps in Europe during his time at the club and the players usually seem well up for it.  If the lads can play without fear against Barca at the Nou Camp, why would they lack confidence against the Mancs at Anfield?  I can't imagine that Rafa changes his motivating approach fundamentally from competition to competition so there must be more to it than what you've suggested, right?

i think bob it is simply just the way the team play in CL it works cos its is knock out comp but in league not .

Knock out as we know you can sit back more and let things happen naturaly but in league you have to be able to force some thing to happy in game.

Now this can be down to how attacking rafa sets up his team in league games and i like to think it is down to that but i also think you cant take away from fact that we just dont have very good creative players in team and enuff pace and skill on wingers to open up any team if they play defencive.

[Bad Bob]

i think bob it is simply just the way the team play in CL it works cos its is knock out comp but in league not .

Knock out as we know you can sit back more and let things happen naturaly but in league you have to be able to force some thing to happy in game.

But there have been plenty of instances in the Champions League where we haven't had the luxury of sitting back and letting things just unfold.  The Marseille game is obviously the most recent example where we needed to win and did so--convincingly.  But, we needed to peg Chelsea back in last year's semis and, of course, Barca scored first at the Nou Camp and we went at them and got two.  Now, if we were as defensive as people claim, would we really have gone for two in Barcelona?  Wouldn't it have been prudent to settle for 1-1 or even 1-0 and hope to nick the tie back at Anfield?

Anyway, we were discussing Rafa's skills as motivator.  I just don't buy that he's that poor, given what we've accomplished in the CL against some truly fantastic sides.  And, I certainly don't buy that he approaches motivation in a fundamentally different way in the league compared to the CL.  Honestly, I'm more convinced by those who say Rafa overcooks the tactics in the league than I am by this theory about his difficulties motivating players.