Liverpool FC Forum

[tel]

Rafa's is taking the pi$$ with his contract. Any manager that wants to win a title doesnt speak to the media about his contract and make it news headlines.

He's got his eye on the madrid job, and its payback for Klinsman.

Too bad he wasnt a bigger man

[kazza]

There has already been far too many threads like this one, started by people who's ego was so big they thought that their opinion deserved it's own thread.

One of two things happened here. Either you missed the irony of my post completely, or you got it and thought it was hilarious. Given the fact that you've omitted half of the initial line (and indeed the bit which made it ironic) and given your history, I suspect it's the former.

Read it again, and pay specific attention to the part where I said to the bloke that he could have quoted mine from a month ago. If you read that one (you should it's a good thread) you'll note that one or two people told me off for starting a thread simply because it was MY opinion. They were right too.

Hence the reference here. Ironic innit? Magnified of course by you taking it as you did and the smiley. You couldn't make it up really.

Not just once Mick, you do it all the time (something about the pot calling the kettle black) but I guess when you live in a fantasy world you can do what you want . How's the weather in Mickland anyway, I hear it is chilly this time of year

[kazza]

Just because one wants to criticise the manager, let's not make things out to be which they're not....

1. Gerrard is my favourite player... but let's be honest here he's not the best player in the world

2. Reina is not the best keeper in the Premier League

3. Mascherano is one of the best holding midfielders in the game but he's not the best

4. Torres is one of the best strikers in the world but he's not the best.

5. We do not have a creative player in the mould of Robinho

6. We do not have the best wingers in the league

7. Because of all of the above we do not have the best squad in the league

We are where we are suppose to be IMO and this is not because Benitez doesn't know how to use the best player in the world and the best squad in the league. I do blame him for some of the acquisitions he made mainly this season's except for riera... and he has to take responsibility in that. But he is still a very very good manager, the kind of which it is very hard to find these days. Scholari came to Chelsea with a big reputation, and his squad is arguably stronger than us, but we managed to overcome them twice in the league and currently better positioned than them. What benitez is up against is a manager who has been dominating the premier league for more than a decade. This person has the full support of the board, his squad is better than ours, winning the league is like bread and butter for him and they can spend more money than us. Give the manager 2 more seasons. We are finally challenging for the title and most of you said that if we challenge you wouldn't mind benitez staying on. now you've changed your tunes...

I agree 100%, good post

[stmichael]

I'll be amazed if he's here next season if I'm honest.

[loopyliverpool]

I actually don't blame Raffa for not signing his contract, he wants control over the transfer issues, which is fair enough, it aint going to happen though with our current financial predicament being so precarious. I just think he's run his course as our manager, we're a considerable distance behind the Mancs. Yeah we beat them and if we played like we did then, we would still be challenging but we haven't! Second is an improvement on previous seasons but both Chelsea and Arsenel are having particularly poor seasons. For me Raffa's an instinctively defensive manager and it is proving not good enough to cut at the very top. After five seasons you would only keep Torres, Alonso, Skertel, Reina, Mascherano out of the players he has brought in, his five year plan should have yeilded more than that by anybody's standard!

[stmichael]

In all seriousness though, it does my head in that we have one of these threads everytime we don't win a game.

The alternative to Benítez staying isn't worth contemplating. We are Liverpool not Chelsea. The only ones who need to go from the Club are the owners and the CEO.

[Owzat]

I actually don't blame Raffa for not signing his contract, he wants control over the transfer issues, which is fair enough, it aint going to happen though with our current financial predicament being so precarious. I just think he's run his course as our manager, we're a considerable distance behind the Mancs.

I think Rafa needs to rethink his stance on the new contract, if he doesn't sign one then he's could save the club a wad of compensation and cost himself it. Maybe he doesn't think like that, but the fact is he's had a few years and still not troubling the mancs unduly.

[heimdall]

Anyway like I say, credit to those who know they're goign to be in the minority for a time for showing themselves.

As if I care being in a minority.



Let me play your little game of guessing what the antis are thinking, and let me tell you I don't think you're  interested in reading our input at all. Rather, I think that you're finding that gloating against someone is more fun than gloating alone. It's as if you buy a Ferrari and you don't have a neighbour to show your new car, the fun is not complete. If I'm being unfair I'm sorry, but it's unfair aswell you pretend to think why someone doesn't post.

Because I think you know perfectly well that someone doesn't change his opinion on a manager in 3 weeks, and if 3 weeks ago I thought this manager was making us progress, I won't come up with something different because we had been battered by injuries and an annoyingly and incredible Manc run of won games.

I don't have a dimmer switch of support of the manager depending if we're one, three, five points away, I don't have an opportunistic nature (I couldn't be a striker).

I don't change my global position if in 3 weeks we suffer from injuries like the one of Gerrard or Manchester is overrunning their rivals either with good football, or ref help. I don't post my position on the manager when I look at the table and I deem it safe.

So unsurprisingly my position is the same of one month ago and the last summer, if you're truly interested on that.

So, by all means, enjoy yourself, do all the gloating you wish, but do not pretend to know why the pros don't post, as probably each of them have their own reason. My reason is that I can't read that shhhh to Liverpool fans is funny and telling Ferguson a couple of truths is arrogant without getting too annoyed. So instead of posting insults, and giving more work to the mods than they already have, I preffer silence. The requested self moderation, if I posted these days I'd be brutally honest, and the other day the ladies overreacted a bit when I posted what I think about Owzat's posts here (not Owzat the guy). So self moderation and silence is the best I can offer this forum right now. You don't have to say thanks, I will be happy if you just don't pretend to know why I've stopped posting.

But I still have my own position, and all, I don't have a dimmer switch in my position depending on the league table, I just look at Rafa's reign and believe he has made us progress and can take us further. I'm a minority in that? See if I care.


P.S. Just to complete your suggestions, besides RAWK, The Rattle is also a place in which saying shhhh to Liverpool fans is an insult, and telling a couple of truths to Ferguson is right or wrong, but not arrogant.

Do you mean gloating like what you did when I was temporarily banned Sabre?

Sabre I actually respect you as a poster as you seem fairly knowledgable but surely the defense of Rafa is getting harder and harder isn't it?

From my perspective he has assembled a squad which is way behind many of the other teams in the prem as was demonstrated yesterday when we were without Gerrard and Alonso and seemed to run out of ideas, and without basic skills like being able to pass a ball or build up an attack seemed to go missing.

[Sabre]

Haummmmmmmmmmm.

Meditation. Self control.

Haummmmmmmmmmm.

[Owzat]

In all seriousness though, it does my head in that we have one of these threads everytime we don't win a game.

The alternative to Benítez staying isn't worth contemplating. We are Liverpool not Chelsea. The only ones who need to go from the Club are the owners and the CEO.

Yeah right, let's carry on finishing third or fourth and winning the occaisional trophy.

How many of the trophies that Rafa has won have been won in 90 mins in the 'final'?

Champions League - extra time and penalties
FA Cup - extra time and penalties
UEFA Super Cup - 3-1 after extra time
Community Shield - 2-1 in 90 mins

He's consistently shown a lack of ability to win games, even three of his four trophies have been draws that had to be decided on the day/night. How many times have us fans almost given up hope? 0-2 down vs West Ham, 0-3 down vs AC Milan, 0-1 down and 1-2 down against Pompey, 0-2 (away) and 0-1 (home) against Man City, 0-2 down against Hull. Is that your idea of a great manager?!?!? I think most of us feared the worst, end of cup hope or end of league ambitions.

Add to that his inspirational signings, tactics and substitutions and I'm surprised any of us can be optimistic. I think relief is a more common feeling at some of the salvage jobs than confidently expected. We've won no trophy for two seasons, this could well be three in a row. Much better to blame the owners and CEO for the problems, nothing whatsoever to do with a manager who can't win home games and has assembled a squad that has not depth or much quality.

I think maguskwt's a bit harsh on Gerrard, Torres, Reina etc, they don't have to be THE BEST, but they are good enough that any team in the Premiership would want them. The problem is, while our squad isn't the best, it is beating supposedly weaker squads that is our problem.

vs Man Utd/Chelsea : P3 W3 D0 L0 PTS 9
vs Arsenal/A Villa/Everton : P4 W1 D3 L0 PTS 6
vs Hull/WBA/Stoke : P4 W1 D3 L0 PTS 6
vs Everyone else : P15 W10 D4 L1 PTS 34

We've picked up maximum points against last season's top two, dropped as many points as we've picked up against sides who normally push for 3rd, 4th or 5th, dropped as many points as we've picked up against the newly promoted sides and dropped points in 1/3 of the games we've played against the rest. We've no excuse on not having the best squad regards playing most of the rest of the Premiership, Rafa simply doesn't make most of what he's got and ties his own hands with some of the signings. I've read all about how he doesn't get his first choice of this, that and the other. Maybe he should go to Real Madrid and then he'll get his way. But that doesn't excuse signing Lucas, Degen, Voronin, Keane, Dossena, Babel, Benayoun etc, spending lots in signing them and then not even getting them to fulfil their potential. We paid £8m for Riera, £7m for Dossena, £6.7m for Pennant, Degen for free, £2.6m for Arbeloa, £10m for Kuyt, £11.5m for Babel and £5m for Benayoun - has Rafa resolved the LB, LM, RM or RB positions properly? That's about £50m spent on those positions alone, you can't tell me a top quality manager can't spend £50m and find someone capable of doing a very good job - even if he can't get his absolute first choice in any position. Kuyt does a job, gets a lot of stick because he's not the best footballer in the Premiership or on the right side of midfield and it shows. Ironic really that arguably our best LB(s) are picked behind Dossena.

[Scottbot]

I think that most are probably feeling too depressed to post at the moment. I know I am. I've never particularly liked this 'pro's' and 'anti's' talk but it's hardly surprising if those who fully support the manager are subdued this morning. I don't recall seeing too many posts from the likes of Peewee or the Rock (and others who aren't keen on the manager) when we were beating Chelsea to go top of the league.

[stmichael]

In all seriousness though, it does my head in that we have one of these threads everytime we don't win a game.

The alternative to Benítez staying isn't worth contemplating. We are Liverpool not Chelsea. The only ones who need to go from the Club are the owners and the CEO.

Yeah right, let's carry on finishing third or fourth and winning the occaisional trophy.

How many of the trophies that Rafa has won have been won in 90 mins in the 'final'?

Champions League - extra time and penalties
FA Cup - extra time and penalties
UEFA Super Cup - 3-1 after extra time
Community Shield - 2-1 in 90 mins

He's consistently shown a lack of ability to win games, even three of his four trophies have been draws that had to be decided on the day/night. How many times have us fans almost given up hope? 0-2 down vs West Ham, 0-3 down vs AC Milan, 0-1 down and 1-2 down against Pompey, 0-2 (away) and 0-1 (home) against Man City, 0-2 down against Hull. Is that your idea of a great manager?!?!? I think most of us feared the worst, end of cup hope or end of league ambitions.

Add to that his inspirational signings, tactics and substitutions and I'm surprised any of us can be optimistic. I think relief is a more common feeling at some of the salvage jobs than confidently expected. We've won no trophy for two seasons, this could well be three in a row. Much better to blame the owners and CEO for the problems, nothing whatsoever to do with a manager who can't win home games and has assembled a squad that has not depth or much quality.

I think maguskwt's a bit harsh on Gerrard, Torres, Reina etc, they don't have to be THE BEST, but they are good enough that any team in the Premiership would want them. The problem is, while our squad isn't the best, it is beating supposedly weaker squads that is our problem.

vs Man Utd/Chelsea : P3 W3 D0 L0 PTS 9
vs Arsenal/A Villa/Everton : P4 W1 D3 L0 PTS 6
vs Hull/WBA/Stoke : P4 W1 D3 L0 PTS 6
vs Everyone else : P15 W10 D4 L1 PTS 34

We've picked up maximum points against last season's top two, dropped as many points as we've picked up against sides who normally push for 3rd, 4th or 5th, dropped as many points as we've picked up against the newly promoted sides and dropped points in 1/3 of the games we've played against the rest. We've no excuse on not having the best squad regards playing most of the rest of the Premiership, Rafa simply doesn't make most of what he's got and ties his own hands with some of the signings. I've read all about how he doesn't get his first choice of this, that and the other. Maybe he should go to Real Madrid and then he'll get his way. But that doesn't excuse signing Lucas, Degen, Voronin, Keane, Dossena, Babel, Benayoun etc, spending lots in signing them and then not even getting them to fulfil their potential. We paid £8m for Riera, £7m for Dossena, £6.7m for Pennant, Degen for free, £2.6m for Arbeloa, £10m for Kuyt, £11.5m for Babel and £5m for Benayoun - has Rafa resolved the LB, LM, RM or RB positions properly? That's about £50m spent on those positions alone, you can't tell me a top quality manager can't spend £50m and find someone capable of doing a very good job - even if he can't get his absolute first choice in any position. Kuyt does a job, gets a lot of stick because he's not the best footballer in the Premiership or on the right side of midfield and it shows. Ironic really that arguably our best LB(s) are picked behind Dossena.

Owzat, I agree Rafa has many flaws. The timing of his substitutions is one of my pet hates but to suggest that he is the real problem at the club is complete nonsense.

Out of all the people involved in senior positions at the club Rafa is the least of the problems.

[redbeergoggles]

The shear arrogance of you people is astounding ,Liverpool are second and the closest team to the Mancs not because there an exceptional team ,but because we have an extremely astute manager and tactician , Who most teams with any aspirations would proffer their own granny in exchange.
I suggest instead of utilising your vast knowledge and obviously huge intellect in posting disparaging remarks you get firmly behind the team and the manager ,and maybe, just maybe enter the place we less learned posters call reality .
The need to be heard is becoming tedious, posters vanity  should have no place on this forum ,put simply I hazard a guess this forum in its present guise would not exist if the manager and the team were successful.
As for the posters that deem Martin O'neil as a possible replacement hang your heads people .
Benitez is currently running this famous club of ours under incredible duress ,the present owners have some heinous plans for Liverpool and should be the target of your vitriol and abuse ,the underlying fact that they are not the sole target is a sad indictment of the naive nature of the majority of posters.
I hasten to add this is not a pop at any particular poster this is now a wide spectrum of contributors  ,Liverpool fc has a new head and its the head of a serpent ,these people should be our nemesis not the manager.........

[Owzat]

Owzat, I agree Rafa has many flaws. The timing of his substitutions is one of my pet hates but to suggest that he is the real problem at the club is complete nonsense.

Out of all the people involved in senior positions at the club Rafa is the least of the problems.

Our position has changed from seven points ahead of the mancs after same games played, to seven points behind the mancs after same games played.

To suggest a manager who hasn't won a game convincingly since December 2008 isn't "the real problem at the club" is either naive, or relating to a completely different issue altogether. Deflecting focus onto the owners who don't pick the team, signings, tactics etc isn't all that clever, the same manager who beat Chelsea and Man Utd and can win games is using the same players who can't beat Wigan, Man City, Hull, Stoke (home or away), the bitters etc.

Or if you're implying that Rafa's comments about "control" and possible constraints are true and that's affecting him, then isn't that him being unprofessional? He's paid to do a job, if he doesn't like the conditions then he should do what a couple of other managers have done this season and back up words with actions. I'm not overly happy about the owners and the risks, but I'm not going to use that to excuse Rafa as a manager.

Neigh, neigh and thrice neigh. I agree with whoever said that Liverpool won't win the Premiership while Rafa is at the club, even if it was that brum plank Collymore who said it. It's no wonder Rafa airs so many of his views in public, he has a willing audience lapping his words up. We're not worse off in terms of a football team than before, we've not had to sell our best players and bring in the rubbish Rafa has on the cheap (which they weren't) He has the means to beat teams we're not, and he's not. I'm not that interested in off-pitch politics, I won't accept their use to excuse a manager who has shown many failings - some more provable than others

[loopyliverpool]

We should have been attacking City earlier on in that game. Rafa thinks safety first, always! He has consistently played with just one up front whilst stocking the midfield. Invariably we scrape by with wins but we are never going to be world beaters playing this overtly negative style. Our attacking options are very limited and were totally exposed yesterday. You have to question why he off-loaded Keane and even Pennant at such a crucial time of the season. The championship is the holy grail and for him to release players while not bringing any new faces in, shows his over confidence in a threadbare squad. Rafa needs a reality check. Without Gerrard we are an average team, with him we are a good team but, are we a great team?