Liverpool FC Forum

[heimdall]

when exactly was it that arsenal did that great thing ? 5 years ago before rafa arrived ? not now thou is it - playing lovely football but winning feck all . Yes they may of come out of the block first 15 mins but the game last 90 and overall we got what we deserved - the win .

Have we beaten Arsenal recently, when did that happen? WTF are you talking abut btw? Wenger was manager of Arsenal 5 years ago wasn't he, it's only really this season they've had a big dip but I am very wary of them for next season, I think they'll come roaring back with a crop of excellent young players.

we beat arsenal last season in the cl and arsenal have done nothing in 5 years - in fact its getting to the point where the fans want him out cause they think he has taken them as far as he can . Only blip this season ? couple season ago they nearly got beat by spurs for cl - in fact it was just last season where they did well but came up short .

and the bit about 15 mins was in ref to your point about the manc game

But I agreed that we played well against Manure???

Arsenal have still finished above us in the league most seasons haven't hey, anyway we are going way off topic here.

yes i think rafa is off and I am happy about that, although it will feck us up this season or what's left of it. I really really hope we beat Real Madrid but even if everything was nice and rosy at the moment I don't think we'd do it, they are playing fantastic football at the moment and I think they will give us a proper spanking tonight. 

[GYBS]

I posted this elsewhere, but think it has relevance here:

Whenever there have been new champions in our top division, here are their previous league stats.

Winners                   Pts    Previous position     Previous Pts    Pts behind winners

Man U (06/07)          89             2nd                   83                  8
Chelsea (04/05)        91             2nd                   79                  11
Arsenal (03/04)         90             2nd                  78                   5
Man U (02/03)          83             3rd                   77                   10
Arsenal (01/02)         87             2nd                  70                   10
Man U (98/99)          79             2nd                   77                   1
Arsenal (97/98)         78             3rd                   68                   7
Man U (95/96)          82             2nd                   88                   1
Blackburn (94/95)      89             2nd                   84                   8
Man U (92/93)          84             2nd                   78                   8
Leeds U (91/92)        82           4th                    64                   19

Not trying to imply anything from those stats.
I suppose what you could conclude is that it's rare to go from 4th to 1st.           

Also, the last time there was a "leap" from 4th to 1st - The Premier League was born.
End of an era.

So, looking at these stats, wasn't it a big ask for us to go from 4th to 1st in one season?

Yes it was a very big ask mate - im pretty sure most people at the beginning of the season wanted us to imporve our position and points tally this season and get near to the winners and maybe get second place . now it seems that isnt good enough anymore .

[GYBS]

when exactly was it that arsenal did that great thing ? 5 years ago before rafa arrived ? not now thou is it - playing lovely football but winning feck all . Yes they may of come out of the block first 15 mins but the game last 90 and overall we got what we deserved - the win .

Have we beaten Arsenal recently, when did that happen? WTF are you talking abut btw? Wenger was manager of Arsenal 5 years ago wasn't he, it's only really this season they've had a big dip but I am very wary of them for next season, I think they'll come roaring back with a crop of excellent young players.

we beat arsenal last season in the cl and arsenal have done nothing in 5 years - in fact its getting to the point where the fans want him out cause they think he has taken them as far as he can . Only blip this season ? couple season ago they nearly got beat by spurs for cl - in fact it was just last season where they did well but came up short .

and the bit about 15 mins was in ref to your point about the manc game

But I agreed that we played well against Manure???

Arsenal have still finished above us in the league most seasons haven't hey, anyway we are going way off topic here.

yes i think rafa is off and I am happy about that, although it will feck us up this season or what's left of it. I really really hope we beat Real Madrid but even if everything was nice and rosy at the moment I don't think we'd do it, they are playing fantastic football at the moment and I think they will give us a proper spanking tonight. 

arsenal have finished above us twice and we have finished above them twice in the four seasons rafa has been here .

How come Maureen is labeled brilliant for getting a draw against the mancs ? and rafa is labeled what ?

[heimdall]

The wins against Chelsea (first game anyway) and Utd, weren't convincing enough for me to say that the team's progressed much in that regard. As I said earlier, but for an OG and a deflection, those games are simply draws.

I can agree to say that Liverpool have "progressed" up the table (at least for now anyway) they may still end up at 4th spot, but I cannot agree that Liverpool have progressed as a team, especially in terms of playing.

But isnt the game about results at the end of the day and picking up points ? as i stated in other post would you rather we play the arsenal way and play lovely football but win feck all . man utd are playing awful football but do you think they care cause they are getting the results that matter ?

Man Utd first match we outplayed them-simple as that - if t wasnt for van der sar it would of been a lot more - same with both chelsea games - we controlled both games and outplyed them and in all three games got the result that we deserved and it was the result that mattered .

The results are what's important, yes, but a teams "progression" cannot be simply totted up by results alone.

And as far as "lovely attacking football" is concerned, yes, I would like to see Liverpool in a more positive attacking mode...and win. Likewise, I would mind seeing Liverpool playing like the current Utd team, ie badly but winning. Utd throw everything at the opposition and most of the time they get a reward for that.

Liverpool don't.

I've been saying all season that one of Liverpool' biggest failings is that they don;t get enough bodies into the box. Utd do that and even when they play badly, they snatch a goal. I'd have no problem with Liverpool playing that way...it would be...erm...progress.

The results are key - they show the progress - its 38 games in a season - where you end up shows how well you have done over the season .

So when we win like against pompey rafa gets slaughtered for it ? which is exctly how the mancs play ?

Bob is right - no matter what happens no credit will be given and no positives will be seen by a fair umber of people on here .

Who slaughtered Rafa over the Pompey win, i certianly didn't, in fact lately I haven't really been critical of rafa's in game tactics or subs at all, what I am critical of is the huge number of sub standard players we have bought, the constant washing of dirty linen through his Spanish media connections and general whiny and childish attitude. Oh yeah and also his man-management and negative tactics!

[heimdall]

when exactly was it that arsenal did that great thing ? 5 years ago before rafa arrived ? not now thou is it - playing lovely football but winning feck all . Yes they may of come out of the block first 15 mins but the game last 90 and overall we got what we deserved - the win .

Have we beaten Arsenal recently, when did that happen? WTF are you talking abut btw? Wenger was manager of Arsenal 5 years ago wasn't he, it's only really this season they've had a big dip but I am very wary of them for next season, I think they'll come roaring back with a crop of excellent young players.

we beat arsenal last season in the cl and arsenal have done nothing in 5 years - in fact its getting to the point where the fans want him out cause they think he has taken them as far as he can . Only blip this season ? couple season ago they nearly got beat by spurs for cl - in fact it was just last season where they did well but came up short .

and the bit about 15 mins was in ref to your point about the manc game

But I agreed that we played well against Manure???

Arsenal have still finished above us in the league most seasons haven't hey, anyway we are going way off topic here.

yes i think rafa is off and I am happy about that, although it will feck us up this season or what's left of it. I really really hope we beat Real Madrid but even if everything was nice and rosy at the moment I don't think we'd do it, they are playing fantastic football at the moment and I think they will give us a proper spanking tonight. 

arsenal have finished above us twice and we have finished above them twice in the four seasons rafa has been here .

How come Maureen is labeled brilliant for getting a draw against the mancs ? and rafa is labeled what ?

Didn't you yourself say a manager should be judged on more than one game?   

[GYBS]

well you said it was maureen brilliance (i think thats the word you used) that enabled them to get a draw ?

[tonyeh]

The wins against Chelsea (first game anyway) and Utd, weren't convincing enough for me to say that the team's progressed much in that regard. As I said earlier, but for an OG and a deflection, those games are simply draws.

I can agree to say that Liverpool have "progressed" up the table (at least for now anyway) they may still end up at 4th spot, but I cannot agree that Liverpool have progressed as a team, especially in terms of playing.

But isnt the game about results at the end of the day and picking up points ? as i stated in other post would you rather we play the arsenal way and play lovely football but win feck all . man utd are playing awful football but do you think they care cause they are getting the results that matter ?

Man Utd first match we outplayed them-simple as that - if t wasnt for van der sar it would of been a lot more - same with both chelsea games - we controlled both games and outplyed them and in all three games got the result that we deserved and it was the result that mattered .

The results are what's important, yes, but a teams "progression" cannot be simply totted up by results alone.

And as far as "lovely attacking football" is concerned, yes, I would like to see Liverpool in a more positive attacking mode...and win. Likewise, I would mind seeing Liverpool playing like the current Utd team, ie badly but winning. Utd throw everything at the opposition and most of the time they get a reward for that.

Liverpool don't.

I've been saying all season that one of Liverpool' biggest failings is that they don;t get enough bodies into the box. Utd do that and even when they play badly, they snatch a goal. I'd have no problem with Liverpool playing that way...it would be...erm...progress.

The results are key - they show the progress - its 38 games in a season - where you end up shows how well you have done over the season .

So when we win like against pompey rafa gets slaughtered for it ? which is exctly how the mancs play ?

Bob is right - no matter what happens no credit will be given and no positives will be seen by a fair umber of people on here .

Where you end up simply shows you got more points than your opponents. It doesn't show you how the team got those points.

Rafa got "slaughtered" not because we won against Portsmouth, but because he took un-necessary and silly risks with Liverpool's title ambition in that game and the result was touch and go because of it. Benitez deserved every ounce of criticism he recieved for that.

People will point out the positives, but not every post can be a fine ballance of positive and negative.

[GYBS]

But isnt it the whole aim of the game t end up with more points than your opponents ? isnt that what is it all about ?

[taff]

On sky sports news betting on Rafa leaving has been suspended.  This looks like tonight might be his last game

[GYBS]

I think thats becasue of all the rumours being spread around by people mate and then putting bets on - are we as a club that stupid to get rid of a manager at this crucial stage in the season ? if so then that is a very sad state of affairs we are in right now and we imo go in freefall.

[tonyeh]

That's not point GYBS.

We're talking about the teams "Progression" and that cannot be assessed on results alone. There are other factors involved.

[Effes]

On sky sports news betting on Rafa leaving has been suspended.  This looks like tonight might be his last game

Taff, they were running a very small book in the first place.

All the internet rumours doing the rounds had people placing bets.
Their maximum bet was only small anyway, so a small book which had to be closed as everyone
reading the rumours on the internet put it out of balance.

I wouldn't worry about it.

[GYBS]

how can it be assessed then ?

[taff]

I am shocked by this but rumours are flying in now.  I think it would be a huge mistake and if he does go then the yanks and Parry will have difficulty getting a top class manager to work with them.

[GYBS]

I am shocked by this but rumours are flying in now.  I think it would be a huge mistake and if he does go then the yanks and Parry will have difficulty getting a top class manager to work with them.

yep spot on - no chance of getting maureen - he fell out with a guy who gave him the chance to buy anyone he wanted - chances of him working with the yanks ? nil in my eyes