Liverpool FC Forum

[tonyeh]

BUTS and IFS mean nothing toneyh - surely its the end result for liverpool that matters not how we get there - and in that case then we have progressed .

No...if the other teams in the "big four" have gone down a notch, but we have continued to play the same as last season (worse IMO), then that is not a sign of the team progressing.

Look...Chelsea only have to have won one of their losses and we'd be in 3rd place behind them.

It doesn't do me any good to be saying this and I'd love it if Liverpool had had convincing victories and wins against the likes of Stoke. That would indicate progress. But the simple fact is that Liverpool's season, as far as playing is concerned, hasn't been that great.

Mate I'd give up, you'd get more sense out of your pet than you would out of these guys, they have made their mind up and are not going to change it ever, well not until the new manager comes in anyway!
I totally agree with you, we may have more points this season but do we look better, do we play better, the answer for me is a big NO and that is what worries me.
I really enjoyed the game yesterday between manure and Inter, that was quality football, that was what I want to see us doing and very very occasionally we do, normally when the players seem to forget Rafa's initial turgid tactics and play to their abilities with some creativity and flair.

I enjoyed the match too last night, but mainly because Inter managed to keep Utd to a draw. Inter were absolutely dreadfull in the fist half and only because Cesar played out of his skin did the Italians keep from going 2-0 down at half time.

Ronaldo diving all over the place boiled my blood again last night. He's a blight on the game.

[GYBS]

Shall we go the arsenal route then and play lovely attacking football ? yes man utd and inter may of looked lovely last night to watch but what was the score ? was it not nil nil ? so doesnt mater one bit how they play its the end result that matters .

It may have been 0-0 GYBS but it was a hell of a lot more interesting to watch than our recent draws and also it could easily have been about 3-3. If you can't appreciate that game for it's football then I feel sorry for you because that truly was the beautiful game.

but it wasnt 3-3 was it - it was nil nil . and listening to reports on the radio it certainly didnt seem the way you suggest .

Who cares about interesting - its the result that matters .

[heimdall]

The wins against Chelsea (first game anyway) and Utd, weren't convincing enough for me to say that the team's progressed much in that regard. As I said earlier, but for an OG and a deflection, those games are simply draws.

I can agree to say that Liverpool have "progressed" up the table (at least for now anyway) they may still end up at 4th spot, but I cannot agree that Liverpool have progressed as a team, especially in terms of playing.

But isnt the game about results at the end of the day and picking up points ? as i stated in other post would you rather we play the arsenal way and play lovely football but win feck all . man utd are playing awful football but do you think they care cause they are getting the results that matter ?

Man Utd first match we outplayed them-simple as that - if t wasnt for van der sar it would of been a lot more - same with both chelsea games - we controlled both games and outplyed them and in all three games got the result that we deserved and it was the result that mattered .

You have a curious memory GYBS, didn't Arsenal go on the longest unbeaten run in the prem playing "beautiful" football, haven't they won the league quite a few more times than us recently playing "beautiful" football?
In the game against Manure they were all over us in the first 15 minutes, I was genuinely nervous of a slaughtering but we calmed down, got control and played very well in that game, one of the few times this season that the team really gelled and played good football.

[GYBS]

when exactly was it that arsenal did that great thing ? 5 years ago before rafa arrived ? not now thou is it - playing lovely football but winning feck all . Yes they may of come out of the block first 15 mins but the game last 90 and overall we got what we deserved - the win .

[heimdall]

Shall we go the arsenal route then and play lovely attacking football ? yes man utd and inter may of looked lovely last night to watch but what was the score ? was it not nil nil ? so doesnt mater one bit how they play its the end result that matters .

It may have been 0-0 GYBS but it was a hell of a lot more interesting to watch than our recent draws and also it could easily have been about 3-3. If you can't appreciate that game for it's football then I feel sorry for you because that truly was the beautiful game.

but it wasnt 3-3 was it - it was nil nil . and listening to reports on the radio it certainly didnt seem the way you suggest .

Who cares about interesting - its the result that matters .

You see there is the difference between us maybe, I enjoy football in general with a focus of course on Liverpool and Norway whereas you are completely blinkered on LFC. I suggest you actually watch the game though before saying whether it was good or not, there were a hell of a lot of chances in the game for both sides and there should have been plenty of goals. It really was a game of two halves and imo showed the brilliance of Maureen in that he took a team that were struggling in the 1st half, got them geed up changed a few things around, actually making a sub at half time, shock horror!!, and outplayed Manure in the 2nd half.

If it's true he is favourite to replace Rafa then I am very very happy.    Although I would prefer it to happen at the end of the season.

[Effes]

The wins against Chelsea (first game anyway) and Utd, weren't convincing enough for me to say that the team's progressed much in that regard. As I said earlier, but for an OG and a deflection, those games are simply draws.

That's jus well harsh - winning away at Chelsea no matter what way it was done, is an achievement.

Same with Man U.

[mistyred]

SSN have reported that all bookies have stopped taking bets on Rafa not
bieng boss by the weekend

Rumours are rife, thats all the club needs before tonight.

[heimdall]

when exactly was it that arsenal did that great thing ? 5 years ago before rafa arrived ? not now thou is it - playing lovely football but winning feck all . Yes they may of come out of the block first 15 mins but the game last 90 and overall we got what we deserved - the win .

Have we beaten Arsenal recently, when did that happen? WTF are you talking abut btw? Wenger was manager of Arsenal 5 years ago wasn't he, it's only really this season they've had a big dip but I am very wary of them for next season, I think they'll come roaring back with a crop of excellent young players.

[GYBS]

So maureen is brilliant for not getting beat by man utd and getting a draw and rafa is what for actually beating them ?

Completely blinkered by liverpool ? thats right cause im a liverpool fan first and last . simple as that . couldnt give a monkeys how beautiful the mancs play .

[tonyeh]

The wins against Chelsea (first game anyway) and Utd, weren't convincing enough for me to say that the team's progressed much in that regard. As I said earlier, but for an OG and a deflection, those games are simply draws.

I can agree to say that Liverpool have "progressed" up the table (at least for now anyway) they may still end up at 4th spot, but I cannot agree that Liverpool have progressed as a team, especially in terms of playing.

But isnt the game about results at the end of the day and picking up points ? as i stated in other post would you rather we play the arsenal way and play lovely football but win feck all . man utd are playing awful football but do you think they care cause they are getting the results that matter ?

Man Utd first match we outplayed them-simple as that - if t wasnt for van der sar it would of been a lot more - same with both chelsea games - we controlled both games and outplyed them and in all three games got the result that we deserved and it was the result that mattered .

The results are what's important, yes, but a teams "progression" cannot be simply totted up by results alone.

And as far as "lovely attacking football" is concerned, yes, I would like to see Liverpool in a more positive attacking mode...and win. Likewise, I would mind seeing Liverpool playing like the current Utd team, ie badly but winning. Utd throw everything at the opposition and most of the time they get a reward for that.

Liverpool don't.

I've been saying all season that one of Liverpool' biggest failings is that they don;t get enough bodies into the box. Utd do that and even when they play badly, they snatch a goal. I'd have no problem with Liverpool playing that way...it would be...erm...progress.

[mistyred]

So do any of you lot think Rafa's time is nearly up!!! come on
keep to the thread title guys.

[GYBS]

when exactly was it that arsenal did that great thing ? 5 years ago before rafa arrived ? not now thou is it - playing lovely football but winning feck all . Yes they may of come out of the block first 15 mins but the game last 90 and overall we got what we deserved - the win .

Have we beaten Arsenal recently, when did that happen? WTF are you talking abut btw? Wenger was manager of Arsenal 5 years ago wasn't he, it's only really this season they've had a big dip but I am very wary of them for next season, I think they'll come roaring back with a crop of excellent young players.

we beat arsenal last season in the cl and arsenal have done nothing in 5 years - in fact its getting to the point where the fans want him out cause they think he has taken them as far as he can . Only blip this season ? couple season ago they nearly got beat by spurs for cl - in fact it was just last season where they did well but came up short .

and the bit about 15 mins was in ref to your point about the manc game

[Effes]

I posted this elsewhere, but think it has relevance here:

Whenever there have been new champions in our top division, here are their previous league stats.

Winners                   Pts    Previous position     Previous Pts    Pts behind winners

Man U (06/07)          89             2nd                   83                  8
Chelsea (04/05)        91             2nd                   79                  11
Arsenal (03/04)         90             2nd                  78                   5
Man U (02/03)          83             3rd                   77                   10
Arsenal (01/02)         87             2nd                  70                   10
Man U (98/99)          79             2nd                   77                   1
Arsenal (97/98)         78             3rd                   68                   7
Man U (95/96)          82             2nd                   88                   1
Blackburn (94/95)      89             2nd                   84                   8
Man U (92/93)          84             2nd                   78                   8
Leeds U (91/92)        82           4th                    64                   19

Not trying to imply anything from those stats.
I suppose what you could conclude is that it's rare to go from 4th to 1st.           

Also, the last time there was a "leap" from 4th to 1st - The Premier League was born.
End of an era.

So, looking at these stats, wasn't it a big ask for us to go from 4th to 1st in one season?

[GYBS]

The wins against Chelsea (first game anyway) and Utd, weren't convincing enough for me to say that the team's progressed much in that regard. As I said earlier, but for an OG and a deflection, those games are simply draws.

I can agree to say that Liverpool have "progressed" up the table (at least for now anyway) they may still end up at 4th spot, but I cannot agree that Liverpool have progressed as a team, especially in terms of playing.

But isnt the game about results at the end of the day and picking up points ? as i stated in other post would you rather we play the arsenal way and play lovely football but win feck all . man utd are playing awful football but do you think they care cause they are getting the results that matter ?

Man Utd first match we outplayed them-simple as that - if t wasnt for van der sar it would of been a lot more - same with both chelsea games - we controlled both games and outplyed them and in all three games got the result that we deserved and it was the result that mattered .

The results are what's important, yes, but a teams "progression" cannot be simply totted up by results alone.

And as far as "lovely attacking football" is concerned, yes, I would like to see Liverpool in a more positive attacking mode...and win. Likewise, I would mind seeing Liverpool playing like the current Utd team, ie badly but winning. Utd throw everything at the opposition and most of the time they get a reward for that.

Liverpool don't.

I've been saying all season that one of Liverpool' biggest failings is that they don;t get enough bodies into the box. Utd do that and even when they play badly, they snatch a goal. I'd have no problem with Liverpool playing that way...it would be...erm...progress.

The results are key - they show the progress - its 38 games in a season - where you end up shows how well you have done over the season .

So when we win like against pompey rafa gets slaughtered for it ? which is exctly how the mancs play ?

Bob is right - no matter what happens no credit will be given and no positives will be seen by a fair umber of people on here .

[tonyeh]

The wins against Chelsea (first game anyway) and Utd, weren't convincing enough for me to say that the team's progressed much in that regard. As I said earlier, but for an OG and a deflection, those games are simply draws.

That's jus well harsh - winning away at Chelsea no matter what way it was done, is an achievement.

Same with Man U.

It's not harsh eff...yes Liverpool played well in both games. I didn't say otherwise. However, it still took the fortune of a Wes Brown OG and a deflection to turn those games into wins for Liverpool.

But for fortune, those games end as draws, which certainly an't bad against such opposition. I'd rather we drew or lost against them and won all our other draws.