Liverpool FC Forum

[Emerald Red]

If he's allowed to have more freedom of transfers as he wishes, then by all means stay and prove himself. If not, I think Rafa is best just walking. Having one hand tied behind your back trying to do the thing you are good at? F*ck that.

[Sir Roger]

Rafa is not going to change so why kid ourselves that anything will be any different next season.

I have seen enough to convince me that we will not win the title under Rafa Benitez.

I'd love if he proved me wrong but I doubt he'll get the chance.

Rafa to go.

This is my greatest fear
People can and do change
But he has to want to
I dont think he does

[Emerald Red]

Poor Rafa, only getting a measly £200 million to spend, times are bad.

Do you think he got that as a lump sum? Deduce the money from his CL runs. The CL win. The FA Cup win. The Carling Cup run. The flogging of dead wood. I'd say it wouldn't be a kick in the balls off the 100 million mark or maybe even lower that he's had to spend on a total rebuild of the team and reserve team. I'd love to see the players we would have gotten if he had 200 million to spend outright. I love it when people like yourself just say "oh, he's spent 200 million". It's not as cut and dry as that..

I think it's time people stop spouting the same sh*te over and over on here. I think the questions should be asked:

1) Has Rafa taken Liverpool as far as he can go? Can he take us any further?
2) Has he made us progress as a club?

1)Yes and no. For varying reasons.
2)Without question.

Your answer to the first question makes your second answer irrelevant

Not really. In context that answer refers to the past, whereas the first regards the future.

Progress means nothing without trophies

If you are saying Rafa has taken us as far as he can then there is no point in him staying?

I'm not saying he has. I'm not sure if he has. I'm leaning towards that he hasn't for the reason that we have half a dozen sh*tehawks and a clown in our board. When has Benitez every had the full backing of our board? Never. For this reason, I feel that he "may" have more to offer. We won't know that unless he gets what he's asking and gets the full backing and support without any nonsense.

You say progress is nothing without trophies? I strongly disagree. You can make progress without trophies, depending on the state of things. We're not really that far short of being a title winning outfit. We already know we can compete with the best in Europe. That's progressive.

[Sir Roger]

Poor Rafa, only getting a measly £200 million to spend, times are bad.

Do you think he got that as a lump sum? Deduce the money from his CL runs. The CL win. The FA Cup win. The Carling Cup run. The flogging of dead wood. I'd say it wouldn't be a kick in the balls off the 100 million mark or maybe even lower that he's had to spend on a total rebuild of the team and reserve team. I'd love to see the players we would have gotten if he had 200 million to spend outright. I love it when people like yourself just say "oh, he's spent 200 million". It's not as cut and dry as that..

I think it's time people stop spouting the same sh*te over and over on here. I think the questions should be asked:

1) Has Rafa taken Liverpool as far as he can go? Can he take us any further?
2) Has he made us progress as a club?

1)Yes and no. For varying reasons.
2)Without question.

Your answer to the first question makes your second answer irrelevant

Not really. In context that answer refers to the past, whereas the first regards the future.

Progress means nothing without trophies

If you are saying Rafa has taken us as far as he can then there is no point in him staying?

I'm not saying he has. I'm not sure if he has. I'm leaning towards that he hasn't for the reason that we have half a dozen sh*tehawks and a clown in our board. When has Benitez every had the full backing of our board? Never. For this reason, I feel that he "may" have more to offer. We won't know that unless he gets what he's asking and gets the full backing and support without any nonsense.

You say progress is nothing without trophies? I strongly disagree. You can make progress without trophies, depending on the state of things. We're not really that far short of being a title winning outfit. We already know we can compete with the best in Europe. That's progressive.

Rafa has bought and sold many players
Its his team now
Competing is all very well but winning is everything
I dont want a team that "competes"
I want a team that "wins"
Otherwise we accept failure

[GYBS]

100% stay and let him buy exactly who he wants and let him control the youth set up the way he wants .

[GYBS]

what about the people who insult posters because they stick up and support the manager and the players no matter what ?

[GYBS]

before rafa arrived we ended the season 30 points behind the winners . So now we are second ahead of both chelsea and arsenal and only behind the mancs people wanting him sacked right now ? Some saying he is poor and poor squad etc ? How are we second at the moment ? Only been beaten once in the league as well as beating chelsea twice and the mancs once so far . Also with regards the spending , the mancs have bought around 9 to ten player of 15 million plus , chelsea around 12 while rafa has been able to buy a grand total off - drumroll time - three ! ! . So while rafa may of spent 150 mil he has had to use that money to build a whole squad bar three players plus a whole bunch of youngsters , while the mancs and chelsea have just used the same amount of money to buy 20 mil pound stars to just bolster an already impressive squads .

[RedBlood]

i think people expect miracles from the man, he doesnt have the money chelsea or man u have to spend not even close so if we finnish second or third in the league and have a good champions league campaign hes doing a good job in my opínion

no manager is perfect but if you have the likes of ronaldo rooney tevez and berbatov spear heading your attack you aint gonna need much managment skills are you?

the facts are were closer to the arsenals tottenhams aston villas when it comes to spending on players since rafa came and hes out doing them every year, only chelsea and man utd have won more trophies since hes been here and had a higher average league position

we dont need a new manager we need better investment from those yanks and to say rafa has only bought well in alonso and torres since he came is an absolute joke: mascherano agger skrtel reina are all great players with years ahead of them no one can argue that, plus hes turned carra and gerrard into better players

rafa should stay and get the money he needs to turn us into the real deal, anyone who thinks winning the premiere league is down to managment skills is deluded

[Effes]

its not necessarily the fact that we may finish second, thats great, in fact if that was offered before the start of the season I would have taken it. But the manner in which we are there is what annoys me, we could very easily be top but our failure to be able to break teams down (particularly at Anfield) has cost us dearly. We've beaten Chelsea twice, Man U and drawn at the Emirate. Thats a great record right there, but what does it count for when we go to lesser sides and drop points.

Id be happy with second dont get me wrong, but I'll never forget the manner in whcih it was achieved

Well said Greavsie - that just about sums it up as far as Im concerned.

I think my frustration of late has been due to where we were, and how we've "fallen away".

[heimdall]

before rafa arrived we ended the season 30 points behind the winners . So now we are second ahead of both chelsea and arsenal and only behind the mancs people wanting him sacked right now ? Some saying he is poor and poor squad etc ? How are we second at the moment ? Only been beaten once in the league as well as beating chelsea twice and the mancs once so far . Also with regards the spending , the mancs have bought around 9 to ten player of 15 million plus , chelsea around 12 while rafa has been able to buy a grand total off - drumroll time - three ! ! . So while rafa may of spent 150 mil he has had to use that money to build a whole squad bar three players plus a whole bunch of youngsters , while the mancs and chelsea have just used the same amount of money to buy 20 mil pound stars to just bolster an already impressive squads .

Can I ask you guys something, before Houllier was sacked were you guys as much behind him as you are behind Rafa now?
Personally I think Rafa is a better coach than Houllier whereas I think Houllier was a better manager.

[bigmick]

balancing the books too has Rafa.. probably only spent 30mill in real terms ..

Exactly. Or, in other words, been given that from a 3rd party to spend on players. I'd say it'd be at least double that, though.

Come on Emerald in no way shape or form does the statement that we've "probably only spent 30 million in real terms" warrant an "exactly".

The tables of net spend have been put up here on numerous occasions, plenty enough to know that Zara is way off here. At least double that doesn't come anywhere near covering it either. You know that.

[dawson99]

Half the problem is turnover though. How can a team learn to gel and play together if half the team is being sold every season?

I'm pro Rafa, but I know he's far from perfect. He needs to create some stability, and take the game by the balls sometimes to turn draws into wins.

[Sabre]

That was not my point Saint.  Ok lets cut to the chase, Lando offers abuse but when he posts a decent reply then nothing just more criticism of Rafa.  People are just not interested in debate

To be fair to S@int, we're ignoring each other for the sake of peace, as there used to be troubles when we engaged in a discussion. So most of the time it works well. So in his case that ignoring can't be deemed as something bad.

[dawson99]

What happens is... most of us know Rafa is a great manager, we all know he's making mistakes. But all it needs is that little push one way or the other and we exaggerate the pros or cons depending on where we stand.

The Pro-Rafa people know that he has to do better and do some things different

The anti-Rafa lot (Aren't even anti-Rafa, they just want something different) start turning anti-Rafa to argue with the pro-s

It's a lord of the flies situation, people choose sides and then go too far, we all do it.

Lando does swear a little too much and does post some great stuff. I take the mickey too much, Big Mick posts too much but that's his way. Kazza bites too much and Heimdell is on the blob (just kidding!!!) Sabre's translations come across bad soemtimes, s@int is getting frustrated getting his point across. Taff hardly ever posts but hes welsh. Bad Bob is just trying to keep the peace and the gals are drunk all the time (kidding again, cigs is very passionate, nanster too)

We are all fans at the end of the day, we love Liverpool, and want what's best. It's just these little tiffs are going too far as emotions are spilled.

[Sabre]

Sabre is a Stay man as well.

Stay as long as I don't see decay man.

So I'm in the stay list.