Liverpool FC Forum

[Roger Red Hat]

People mouth off insults, because the don't have an intelligent reply to offer for an argument they don't like/want to hear.

It's that simple.

You only have to look at some of the replies on here by some people to see that they just do not have a reasoned response for their position formed in their head.

The inane ramblings of an idiot.

I don't counter dim-witted arguments as no matter where you're from, bullsh*t baffles brains.

You aren't here to learn. You aren't here to form opinions.

You're here to GIVE opinions.

Once a poster with all the intellectual agility of a carrot has made their amoeba-like mind up, all the reasoned and informed debate in the World won't change it. That is "FACT." (Said by you, no doubt, in a sort of post-counseling "I love me" way, hinting at the troubled childhood where you were shunned by those around you, only to find your one true purpose of being "The Village Idiot", meaning you would forever be tarnished with the disdainful looks of faces past, and a faint odour of rotting pilchards.)

Tell me, though, if you are able:

How do you counter; "Rafa is a c*nt and I want him sacked"?

I await your response with baited breath...

How about "yeah you have a point there"   

Lando will you please stop attacking people, you're a smart guy, please try and debate instead of just belittling and bullying people all the time!!

I do actually worry about you sometimes because you seem so very angry, it's not healthy in the long run.


Ok just read your second post and although I disagree with you I'm happy to see you actually posting with just a little bit of snideness included, good post.

who died and made you 'post supervisor/forum police' you fking bellend? 

[coban]

I was tellin you that we are not going to win the title with this manager. I was tellin these things even when we were 3 points clear. I was tellin that because it was obvious and clear. Me and Legbarnes  were talking to emerald that if you want to win the league you must play some good football. He then spoke about football being gladiators fight,hahaha.

No really,NANNY RED(I think that she saw anfield only on the postcard) said in this topic that Dossena is a Right Back,Lando was saying that we are in progress. Surely it is easy to see clueless people.

How can someone be sooo clueless  to think that Rafa makes good subs,great line ups,great signings,great tactics. MAN RUINED EVERY OUR CHANCE of being good team and not with his rant or stupid interviews. He ruined it this way...

He did NOT bring here CREATIVE attacking midfielder. He did not bought enough fast, skillful youngsters. He made Liverpool sooo boring to watch,but as a Fan I watch Liverpool of course. He rotated every fookin player for his first 3 and a half years(laughable). He bought so much shitt players,unbelievable number of them. He plays with 2 defensive midfielders at home against everybody. He can NOT help any of young players to develop into a good player. He ruins young,creative players. Our wingers are not allowed to change sides during the game. Our players have no freedom during the games. We have Yossi on the RM and J Pennant is at Pompy. JOKE. HE IS HERE FOR 5 FECKIN YEARS AND   some idiots still defends his line ups ,subs,tactics.

But I quit from discussion with them because they don`t KNOW this beautiful game.



Listen to Petar???

[Roger Red Hat]

I was tellin you that we are not going to win the title with this manager. I was tellin these things even when we were 3 points clear. I was tellin that because it was obvious and clear. Me and Legbarnes  were talking to emerald that if you want to win the league you must play some good football. He then spoke about football being gladiators fight,hahaha.

No really,NANNY RED(I think that she saw anfield only on the postcard) said in this topic that Dossena is a Right Back,Lando was saying that we are in progress. Surely it is easy to see clueless people.

How can someone be sooo clueless  to think that Rafa makes good subs,great line ups,great signings,great tactics. MAN RUINED EVERY OUR CHANCE of being good team and not with his rant or stupid interviews. He ruined it this way...

He did NOT bring here CREATIVE attacking midfielder. He did not bought enough fast, skillful youngsters. He made Liverpool sooo boring to watch,but as a Fan I watch Liverpool of course. He rotated every fookin player for his first 3 and a half years(laughable). He bought so much shitt players,unbelievable number of them. He plays with 2 defensive midfielders at home against everybody. He can NOT help any of young players to develop into a good player. He ruins young,creative players. Our wingers are not allowed to change sides during the game. Our players have no freedom during the games. We have Yossi on the RM and J Pennant is at Pompy. JOKE. HE IS HERE FOR 5 FECKIN YEARS AND   some idiots still defends his line ups ,subs,tactics.

But I quit from discussion with them because they don`t KNOW this beautiful game.



Listen to Petar???

we may as well get rid of him then, he sounds a right knb head (rafa that is not coban)

[hello_red]

Stay.

I would like to finish in the top 6 next season.

[Greavesie]

Dundalk stick me on the undecided mate

[Judge]

The shear arrogance of you people is astounding ,

Forgive us lord for we have sinned, how dare we DISCUSS the situation at the club we support and refer to us as "you people"

I think it's arrogant for someone to tell a whole forum what is and isn't arrogant, acceptable etc. And how arrogant of you to look down and tell us we should get behind the team when we do, just because we discuss it in a forum doesn't mean we don't.

Maybe it's arrogance on your part, maybe it's ignorance. I don't care. But don't presume to tell any of "us people" what to do and how to do it 

F*ck off Owzat. We've all listened to the whinging scum on here for too long.

Shut it, the lot of you.

Moaning b*stards.

Why the fck arent you banned ?

All you do is ruin discussions with sht posts like the one I quoted and pretty much every other post you make in a footie thread...

FFS atleast try to argue your case once in a while instead of just throwing around insults, your fcking boring and your sick jokes arent even funny !

I'm that boring you follow me around, quoting me every f*cking day.

Go away, you wretched weasel, and take your negativity with you.

You bemoan the fact that I don't counter the "points":

Is there any wonder? Are you really suprised that I can't be bothered when this is the reaction to a draw?

"You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink."

If I led the anti's to water, I'd drown the f*cking lot of you in it.

wtf are you on about... this was a good thread before u dragged your fat a$s in and decided to enlighten us all with your bullsht.. give it a break no one here is insulting the manager or anything... its a discussion.. its what civilized people do so i wouldn’t expect you to understand... only insults I see thrown around are by you and apparently towards everybody who doesn’t agree with your opinion...

No, it wasn't a good thread. It was another pitiful excuse for people to have another dig at the boss.

It's tiresome. Just like you.

love it 

[Reg]

Mods, pls zap this thread and all the boring anti rafa whinging threads as well.

How are we going to attract fesh blood into this forum when all we do is slg off the team, the manager, eachother, parry, Moores, the owners etc... its tedious lads, freakin tedious.

[Sabre]

We have a new Sudoku today, with new numbers

Our league form has shown signs of improvement in the last two seasons, but we've only really become consistent in that we are difficult to beat rather than winning enough games. Premiership Champions win around 70%+ of their games, here's Rafa's record :

04/05 44.74%
05/06 65.79%
06/07 52.63%
07/08 55.26%
08/09 57.69%

Is that improvement? It's not even close to what we need to be doing. If league titles were awarded for least defeats then he'd be in with a shout

04/05 36.84%
05/06 15.79%
06/07 27.03%
07/08 10.53%
08/09 3.85%

As you can see the first array of numbers is given a lot of importance to talk about progress, and the second array of numbers is given less importance. The point being made with this set of numbers is "Is that progress??"

But the truth is that the more victories percentage you have the better, and the less defeats you have the better, so we could define a function "Progress" P, which would be a substraction between the percentage of wins and the percentage of defeats.

That is P=V-D. It's Obvious that the more Vs you have and the less defeats you have, the more you progress in points.

This new combined array of numbers, let's see what they say.

04-05 --> 44.74-36.84=7.9
05/06 --> 65.79-15.79=50
06/07 --> 52.63-27.03=25.6
07/08 -->55.26-10.53=44.3
08/09 -->57.69-3.83=57.9

Can you believe it? A set of numbers brought by a happy clapper saying something positive about the team? Incredible, no?

My indicator of progress (P=V-D) says that the season in which we beat our league record of points had the best P indicator of the last years. Which is true.

My indicator of progress (P=V-D) also indicates that this is being our best season of the last years, and so can be read both in the league table points and the P indicator.

My indicator of progress (P=V-D) also indicates that we have made progress under Rafa.

"But Draws give less points than victories! P=V-D is not valid"!!!!

Well, then think of P2, a new function. P2=3*V-D, which reflects with accuracy how much more points give a victory than a draw.

The new indicator P2 also says we have made progress.

It's so easy to arrange a couple of numbers to say something you like. Perhaps I should do more often. But I couldn't take myself too seriously if I did. It's bóllocks.

Hey Lando, do you like my "stats"  ?

[maguskwt]

I totally respect anyone's opinion if they say "give the man three more years" or whatever else, but it'd be far easier if they said they simply believed in him and his methodology rather than dreaming up these daft excuses all the time.

yessssss... give the man three more years...

[account deleted by request]

since Rafa's arrival. I am unapologetic in my damnation of this ridiculous trend of saying "Take the Champions' League progress out of it...". That is like saying "Take Ferguson's league titles away, and he's not good enough..." - it is pathetic, it is disrespectful and it is not going unnoticed on MY watch, let me tell you.

We drew our 10th match on Sunday against the richest club side in the World with Gerrard and Alonso missing and Torres at 70%. It was not a bad result in those circumstances.
Lapses in concentration, fluke goals, good opposition play and sheer bad luck have all contributed to those 10 draws. To suggest it's negative tactics is naive, as we have been caught out in the majority of times at set pieces or when we were on the attack.

I honestly believe that we just need a few adjustments here and there, and we will be a force to be reckoned with.

I also honestly believe that if Rafa leaves, we will be up the proverbial in a barbed-wire canoe.

I will stick my neck out and say most Liverpool fans want the league and couldn't give a feck about the Champions League. There's no such thing as "cup progress", that's ridiculous. You don't get closer to winning a cup, you either are in contention or not, win it or not. Take fergie's leage titles away and he isn't good enough, but he has TEN and we've had most of our success in the cups while seeking just ONE league title.


Take away just ONE league title from Rafa and he hasn't been good enough, no wait, there isn't one to take away so..................


Our league form has shown signs of improvement in the last two seasons, but we've only really become consistent in that we are difficult to beat rather than winning enough games. Premiership Champions win around 70%+ of their games, here's Rafa's record :

04/05 44.74%
05/06 65.79%
06/07 52.63%
07/08 55.26%
08/09 57.69%

Is that improvement? It's not even close to what we need to be doing. If league titles were awarded for least defeats then he'd be in with a shout

04/05 36.84%
05/06 15.79%
06/07 27.03%
07/08 10.53%
08/09 3.85%

We've lost only 7.81% of our games since the 2007 Champions League Final. What have we to show for it? Improvement is one thing, but there is a goal at Liverpool FC and I bet the owners, board and fans won't simply accept perceived "improvement". They want trophies, they want "the big one". As with a cup campaign, you either win it or you don't. Runners-Up is close, but no cigar.

As for justifying a poor result, citeh travel poorly (one away win in the league) and we can't rely on having Torres fully fit and Gerrard and Alonso available to win home games - we beat the other side of manchester without Torres and mostly without Gerrard, didn't hear that excuse used then. What excuse the other five games we haven't won at home? It's funny how "unlucky" we are while the mancs cruise onwards to their umpteenth Premiership title, possibly a second European Cup and Premiership Double, another Treble or maybe even a Quadruple. Cue the excuse about money, ownership wrangles or Rafa only getting his 99th choice players......................

Interesting stats those Owzat, which really show how important it is to win games rather than just not losing many games.

Now all you have to do is produce stats that show how the Hicks Parry and Gillett factor can have no effect when we are riding high in the prem but as soon as we stumble and the poor results start to flow its those b@stards that are to blame.

[bunglemark2]

Ehhhhhh, sorry to say it, but "stats, me hoop !"
There, I said it !
Don't care about stats - only silverware....

[Sir Roger]

I dont consider myself to be a pessimist
I am an optimist and a realist

I can say that realistically we will come second and get to at least the semi final of the CL
I think I am being optimistic when I say that

However, people being angry because I tell it like I think it is doesnt bother me in the slightest

I am old enough and wise enough to see the big picture and the strengths and weaknesses of our manager
People are often angry because theyre frightened : its a natural response. They dont like people talking bad against the manager because they fear it will unsettle him, the team and lose us games.
I disagree. I think the biggest problem is caused when people are made to be quiet. To shut up. Told not to criticise. Rafa needs, if he hasnt been already, to be told to shut his trap in public and pick a team to win games. I dont know if theres anyone brave enough or strong enough to do that at the club?

Unless and until he does these two things we will always be second best

[taff]

Excellent post by Sabre and Lando earlier on but apart from Bigmick ignored or attacked by the anti lot who in a topic asking why they are attacked actually do the attacking or ignore well thought out posts so they can get their points across to each other   

cue anti brigade posting stats nobody reads 

Mad eh when people answer for you, annoying it is.

[Sir Roger]

Owzat, I agree Rafa has many flaws. The timing of his substitutions is one of my pet hates but to suggest that he is the real problem at the club is complete nonsense.

Out of all the people involved in senior positions at the club Rafa is the least of the problems.

Our position has changed from seven points ahead of the mancs after same games played, to seven points behind the mancs after same games played.

To suggest a manager who hasn't won a game convincingly since December 2008 isn't "the real problem at the club" is either naive, or relating to a completely different issue altogether. Deflecting focus onto the owners who don't pick the team, signings, tactics etc isn't all that clever, the same manager who beat Chelsea and Man Utd and can win games is using the same players who can't beat Wigan, Man City, Hull, Stoke (home or away), the bitters etc.

Or if you're implying that Rafa's comments about "control" and possible constraints are true and that's affecting him, then isn't that him being unprofessional? He's paid to do a job, if he doesn't like the conditions then he should do what a couple of other managers have done this season and back up words with actions. I'm not overly happy about the owners and the risks, but I'm not going to use that to excuse Rafa as a manager.

Neigh, neigh and thrice neigh. I agree with whoever said that Liverpool won't win the Premiership while Rafa is at the club, even if it was that brum plank Collymore who said it. It's no wonder Rafa airs so many of his views in public, he has a willing audience lapping his words up. We're not worse off in terms of a football team than before, we've not had to sell our best players and bring in the rubbish Rafa has on the cheap (which they weren't) He has the means to beat teams we're not, and he's not. I'm not that interested in off-pitch politics, I won't accept their use to excuse a manager who has shown many failings - some more provable than others

How much more control does he want?
He is a control freak!
Its his squad playing his tactics in his formations as his team
For .s sake its not working!
If it was we wouldnt be having this conversation because we would have STILL been top of the league and in the FA cup
Rafa should show some humility. I know its hard to admit youre wrong but you will be a bigger man
His selections and preparations are embarrassingly inept and useless.
He should just pick his strongest winning team and just say: "get out there and beat this shower of .e"

See if that works?

[Sir Roger]

Excellent post by Sabre and Lando earlier on but apart from Bigmick ignored or attacked by the anti lot who in a topic asking why they are attacked actually do the attacking or ignore well thought out posts so they can get their points across to each other   

cue anti brigade posting stats nobody reads 

Mad eh when people answer for you, annoying it is.

We all know about statistics
For all those who dont want to or cant be ars.ed looking at loads of stats Ill give you two to look at:
Our position in the league and the points difference
They are undeniable