Liverpool FC Forum

[Lando_Griffin]

Edit- Dunno why it quoted you lando.

I've had to read all the optimism (some realistic, much more unrealistic) too, but I am not complaining.

Its works two ways, just because one is happy and the other isn't doesn't mean the happy talk is acceptable.  From a neutral stand point the Rafa lovers treat the people who dont like rafa pretty negatively, even though they try to have a discussion.  And FACT, it is clear that most rafa supporters will insult and go to swearing during a discussion, while not even mentioning the other sides points.  This is clear.  Clearly.

And for the record, I'm not a doom and gloomer or a happy clapper.  There was not one point in this season I thought we were out of the race until the City game.  (We can still win, but its up to United to decide if we win it or not.)

Although, a lot of the luck talk does get on my nerves.  United has been lucky all season, but yet only we are lucky?  Its the people who are narrow minded (on both sides) are the ones that get to me.

You insult the gaffer, I insult you.

You insult the Gaffer, I insult you.

Say it with me...

You insult the Gaffer, I insult you...

[Lando_Griffin]

The shear arrogance of you people is astounding ,

Forgive us lord for we have sinned, how dare we DISCUSS the situation at the club we support and refer to us as "you people"

I think it's arrogant for someone to tell a whole forum what is and isn't arrogant, acceptable etc. And how arrogant of you to look down and tell us we should get behind the team when we do, just because we discuss it in a forum doesn't mean we don't.

Maybe it's arrogance on your part, maybe it's ignorance. I don't care. But don't presume to tell any of "us people" what to do and how to do it 

F*ck off Owzat. We've all listened to the whinging scum on here for too long.

Shut it, the lot of you.

Moaning b*stards.

Why the fck arent you banned ?

All you do is ruin discussions with sht posts like the one I quoted and pretty much every other post you make in a footie thread...

FFS atleast try to argue your case once in a while instead of just throwing around insults, your fcking boring and your sick jokes arent even funny !

I'm that boring you follow me around, quoting me every f*cking day.

Go away, you wretched weasel, and take your negativity with you.

You bemoan the fact that I don't counter the "points":

Is there any wonder? Are you really suprised that I can't be bothered when this is the reaction to a draw?

"You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink."

If I led the anti's to water, I'd drown the f*cking lot of you in it.

[bigmick]

Funnily enough the forum hasn't even been that negative. That's the good thing with title challenges,things happen gradually and people have had plenty of time to get used to the idea that it might not be our year. I said it somewhere else and it was true, we didn't lose our title capabilities against Man City. In truth, they aren't a bad side particularly given their window purchases. My view is that they're probably around Evertons level if not slightly better, so it's no disgrace to not manage to beat them.

That's the rub though, the negativity isn't because of one result, and neither is our lague position. We're second because we've done well and only lost one match. Unfortunately though, we're also second and a fair way back now not because of this result, but because of lots like them.

[aCe']

The shear arrogance of you people is astounding ,

Forgive us lord for we have sinned, how dare we DISCUSS the situation at the club we support and refer to us as "you people"

I think it's arrogant for someone to tell a whole forum what is and isn't arrogant, acceptable etc. And how arrogant of you to look down and tell us we should get behind the team when we do, just because we discuss it in a forum doesn't mean we don't.

Maybe it's arrogance on your part, maybe it's ignorance. I don't care. But don't presume to tell any of "us people" what to do and how to do it 

F*ck off Owzat. We've all listened to the whinging scum on here for too long.

Shut it, the lot of you.

Moaning b*stards.

Why the fck arent you banned ?

All you do is ruin discussions with sht posts like the one I quoted and pretty much every other post you make in a footie thread...

FFS atleast try to argue your case once in a while instead of just throwing around insults, your fcking boring and your sick jokes arent even funny !

I'm that boring you follow me around, quoting me every f*cking day.

Go away, you wretched weasel, and take your negativity with you.

You bemoan the fact that I don't counter the "points":

Is there any wonder? Are you really suprised that I can't be bothered when this is the reaction to a draw?

"You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink."

If I led the anti's to water, I'd drown the f*cking lot of you in it.

wtf are you on about... this was a good thread before u dragged your fat a$s in and decided to enlighten us all with your bullsht.. give it a break no one here is insulting the manager or anything... its a discussion.. its what civilized people do so i wouldn’t expect you to understand... only insults I see thrown around are by you and apparently towards everybody who doesn’t agree with your opinion...

[aCe']

Ronaldo would have cut it anywhere to be honest... even with Rafa here and all.. probably would have taken him longer and would never have scored as many as he did with united but he still would have been recognised as one of the best in the world sooner or later...

whats more worrying to me are all the less obvious talents... the Babels, Keanes and Cisses that we seem to sign every summer... are they well and truely playing to their full potential ? empirical evidence says no.. the rafa supporters beg to differ and its all a matter of opinions end of the day...

[Lando_Griffin]

People mouth off insults, because the don't have an intelligent reply to offer for an argument they don't like/want to hear.

It's that simple.

You only have to look at some of the replies on here by some people to see that they just do not have a reasoned response for their position formed in their head.

The inane ramblings of an idiot.

I don't counter dim-witted arguments as no matter where you're from, bullsh*t baffles brains.

You aren't here to learn. You aren't here to form opinions.

You're here to GIVE opinions.

Once a poster with all the intellectual agility of a carrot has made their amoeba-like mind up, all the reasoned and informed debate in the World won't change it. That is "FACT." (Said by you, no doubt, in a sort of post-counseling "I love me" way, hinting at the troubled childhood where you were shunned by those around you, only to find your one true purpose of being "The Village Idiot", meaning you would forever be tarnished with the disdainful looks of faces past, and a faint odour of rotting pilchards.)

Tell me, though, if you are able:

How do you counter; "Rafa is a c*nt and I want him sacked"?

I await your response with baited breath...

[taff]

To answer Bigmicks topic, its human nature in a way to have a go when things are going bad for you.

But I feel I have to make some sort of stand here as its not crazy pro Rafa people going mad.  I have joined debates to discuss football and the anti Rafa lot have been equally as guilty and do ignore any resemblance of a football debate to go for insults.  I feel that the situation is almost untenable on this forum at this moment in time mainly because both parties just do not think that they are wrong or the opposition might have any decent points at all.

The other thing is that people are passionate about their clubs and sometimes just dont care about logical debate.  I like Rafa and think hes having a bad time from every angle and its hard sometimes to not have a go at people who clearly want him gone or to undermine him with stats and digs etc.  In all honesty if people cant see that then they have either had a sheltered life when it comes to being a football supporter or just dont understand British football culture.  This is not to say that the abuse given out has any justification on an internet forum as we are not in a pub and we have no form of recognising a grin or someones tone etc. 

My concern for this site however is that it becomes a bizaro rawk where everyone just hates Rafa as the pro Rafa lot dont post much if you havent noticed and its not the loss of a debate rather the despair at not being listened to and abused by certain members.  Or is that how the anti Rafa lot feel as well

[LegBarnes]

The shear arrogance of you people is astounding ,

Forgive us lord for we have sinned, how dare we DISCUSS the situation at the club we support and refer to us as "you people"

I think it's arrogant for someone to tell a whole forum what is and isn't arrogant, acceptable etc. And how arrogant of you to look down and tell us we should get behind the team when we do, just because we discuss it in a forum doesn't mean we don't.

Maybe it's arrogance on your part, maybe it's ignorance. I don't care. But don't presume to tell any of "us people" what to do and how to do it 

F*ck off Owzat. We've all listened to the whinging scum on here for too long.

Shut it, the lot of you.

Moaning b*stards.

Why the fck arent you banned ?

All you do is ruin discussions with sht posts like the one I quoted and pretty much every other post you make in a footie thread...

FFS atleast try to argue your case once in a while instead of just throwing around insults, your fcking boring and your sick jokes arent even funny !

I'm that boring you follow me around, quoting me every f*cking day.

Go away, you wretched weasel, and take your negativity with you.

You bemoan the fact that I don't counter the "points":

Is there any wonder? Are you really suprised that I can't be bothered when this is the reaction to a draw?

"You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink."

If I led the anti's to water, I'd drown the f*cking lot of you in it.

[LegBarnes]

Go bye bye .....

[Effes]

Taff, Ive been critical of Rafa, but wouldn't say Im Rafa out (yet   )

But I think the "pro-Rafa's" have been more abusive. E.g.:

The shear arrogance of you people is astounding ,

Forgive us lord for we have sinned, how dare we DISCUSS the situation at the club we support and refer to us as "you people"

I think it's arrogant for someone to tell a whole forum what is and isn't arrogant, acceptable etc. And how arrogant of you to look down and tell us we should get behind the team when we do, just because we discuss it in a forum doesn't mean we don't.

Maybe it's arrogance on your part, maybe it's ignorance. I don't care. But don't presume to tell any of "us people" what to do and how to do it 

F*ck off Owzat. We've all listened to the whinging scum on here for too long.

Shut it, the lot of you.

Moaning b*stards.

[taff]

Effes I cant disagree about that being abusive   But my point about that is in my post.  And I dont really want to trawl through posts quoting insults from anti Rafa people and whatever you think they are certainly there, lots in fact.

Lando does however reinforce a view of mine that thank the lord we dont have these discussions in a pub on matchday

[Lando_Griffin]

OK - for the benefit of healthy discussion, and to once again disprove this pathetic notion that I never post anything to do with football, and that I am not bright enough to debate. (With a bunch of people who would lose a battle of wits with a rottweiler! )

Here goes:

The reasons I feel that Rafa should keep his job, by Lando Griffin:

Once upon a time, there were 3 be... Hang on - let's get out of fairytale mode...


15th May 2004. Just after tea time. About 5 o'clock.

Owen has just scored in a 1-1 draw at home to Newcastle United to bring to an end the 2003-04 season with a bang even the most alert bat would miss from 2 yards. Over the course of those 38 games, we won only 16 times, drawing 12 and losing 10. We finished 4th with an average home attendance of 42,677. We went out in the 5th round of the Cup to Portsmouth, were booted out of the league cup in round 4 by Bolton at Anfield, and departed the UEFA cup at the same stage to Didier Drogba's Marsailles.

Houllier's problem was that he became too close to his players, and often allowed his heart to rule his head when making decisions about the team. He was a good man. (Even if he DID sell God.)

He walked on 24th May 2004 by mutual consent, leaving behind a World-renowned striker who had had his head turned by the bright lights of Madrid, a Captain who was disillusioned, and a squad lacking any real ability to challenge for the Micky Mouse cups, let alone the big stuff.

And then Rafa came. Before a ball was kicked in anger, he had to jet off to the other side of the World to plead with 2 players he had never met before and ask them to stay at the club and believe in him.

One did, and went on to become one of the best midfielders in the World.

The other one? Well he's currently plying his trade at a second-rate club, fighting relegation and failing to get a game for his Country, having previously been first-choice for so long.

Anyhoo...

With a relatively tight budget compared to his main rivals, Rafa made a few observations of his current squad and realised very quickly that the squad was full of under-performing slackers and punks happy to rot in the reserves as long as they received their cheques every week. He also rapidly established there were was a total lack of class in midfield. Following Josemi, who unarguably pushed Steve Finnan to become one of the best leftbacks in the Country, Rafa swooped to sign Xabi Alonso, a relative unknown in English football, who would go on to become one of the finest passers and controllers of the game in the Premiership.
Several years of playing with a nail and a whippet up front meant that the middle of the park was constantly being by-passed as the defence tw*tted long-ball after long-ball upfield in the vein hope that the nail would head it down, and the whippet would run through and score.
Rafa bought Luis Garcia, an enigmatic goalscoring attacking midfield midget who would force the defence to pass along the ground more often, and who would offer the element of the unknown to our strike force. Ranging from utterly brilliant to terrifyingly cack, this 2' imp had people choking on their pies at both ends of the stadium.

Benitez made 3 major signings in his first season, despite having lost Owen. 2004-05's results went thus:

Played 38. W17, D7, L14. We were knocked out in the 3rd round of the FA Cup away at Burnley, but we reached the league cup final, losing in extra time following a Steven Gerrard own goal.

Oh, and we also won the Champions' League in thrilling fashion, beating the most fancied teams along the way.

In 2005-06, he won the FA Cup and European Super Cup. We completely dominated the final of the World Club Championship but could not find the net, losing to a late sucker-punch from the 18' Brazilian CB who's name escapes me. Lucas? Lucil? That tw*t who plays for Benfica anyway...
We also welcomed back God. For free.

League record: W25 D7 L6.

In 2006-07, we got to another Champions' League final, and dominated throughout. Unfortunately, AC Milan got their revenge and we went home potless. Hang on - no - we won the Charity Shield, beating Chelsea.

League record: W20 D8 L10.

In 2007-08, a semi-final appearance in the Champions' League, and only the freakish Riise own-goal prevented us from riding roughshod to yet another final.
League record:

W21 D13 L4.

2008-09. Top for quite a while, beating Man Utd and Chelsea twice along the way. Currently second with 12 games to play, 7 points off Man Utd. Our highest points total at this point since the year after we last won the title, and all this despite a long-term injury to our best striker, and on-going internal disputes.
Currently awaiting a Champions' League encounter with Real Madrid having finished top of our group unbeaten.

2008-09 record so far:

P26: W15 D10 L1.

There has been progress in the style and shape of the team since Rafa's arrival. I am unapologetic in my damnation of this ridiculous trend of saying "Take the Champions' League progress out of it...". That is like saying "Take Ferguson's league titles away, and he's not good enough..." - it is pathetic, it is disrespectful and it is not going unnoticed on MY watch, let me tell you.

We drew our 10th match on Sunday against the richest club side in the World with Gerrard and Alonso missing and Torres at 70%. It was not a bad result in those circumstances.
Lapses in concentration, fluke goals, good opposition play and sheer bad luck have all contributed to those 10 draws. To suggest it's negative tactics is naive, as we have been caught out in the majority of times at set pieces or when we were on the attack.

I honestly believe that we just need a few adjustments here and there, and we will be a force to be reckoned with.

I also honestly believe that if Rafa leaves, we will be up the proverbial in a barbed-wire canoe.

[bigmick]

Good post Lando. Total b0ll0cks of course you fecking c... (thought we'd have a bit of role reversal ), but good post anyway.

[Lando_Griffin]

The shear arrogance of you people is astounding ,

Forgive us lord for we have sinned, how dare we DISCUSS the situation at the club we support and refer to us as "you people"

I think it's arrogant for someone to tell a whole forum what is and isn't arrogant, acceptable etc. And how arrogant of you to look down and tell us we should get behind the team when we do, just because we discuss it in a forum doesn't mean we don't.

Maybe it's arrogance on your part, maybe it's ignorance. I don't care. But don't presume to tell any of "us people" what to do and how to do it 

F*ck off Owzat. We've all listened to the whinging scum on here for too long.

Shut it, the lot of you.

Moaning b*stards.

Why the fck arent you banned ?

All you do is ruin discussions with sht posts like the one I quoted and pretty much every other post you make in a footie thread...

FFS atleast try to argue your case once in a while instead of just throwing around insults, your fcking boring and your sick jokes arent even funny !

I'm that boring you follow me around, quoting me every f*cking day.

Go away, you wretched weasel, and take your negativity with you.

You bemoan the fact that I don't counter the "points":

Is there any wonder? Are you really suprised that I can't be bothered when this is the reaction to a draw?

"You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink."

If I led the anti's to water, I'd drown the f*cking lot of you in it.

Dear LegBarnes,

I was most thrilled to read your emphatic response to that nasty Lando Griffin character. I thought your use of prose, reason and rhetoric was masterful, and I almost died laughing when I caught sight of that cheeky little retort!

I must say that I find your points of view positively riveting, and I do hope you continue to post your innermost thoughts for the rest of the World to digest.

Yours forever,

Gladys.
Chairperson for the Royal Institute of the Geriatric Hospital Treasury and Care Unit's National Trust. (R.I.G.H.T.C.U.N.T.)

[Lando_Griffin]

The shear arrogance of you people is astounding ,

Forgive us lord for we have sinned, how dare we DISCUSS the situation at the club we support and refer to us as "you people"

I think it's arrogant for someone to tell a whole forum what is and isn't arrogant, acceptable etc. And how arrogant of you to look down and tell us we should get behind the team when we do, just because we discuss it in a forum doesn't mean we don't.

Maybe it's arrogance on your part, maybe it's ignorance. I don't care. But don't presume to tell any of "us people" what to do and how to do it 

F*ck off Owzat. We've all listened to the whinging scum on here for too long.

Shut it, the lot of you.

Moaning b*stards.

Why the fck arent you banned ?

All you do is ruin discussions with sht posts like the one I quoted and pretty much every other post you make in a footie thread...

FFS atleast try to argue your case once in a while instead of just throwing around insults, your fcking boring and your sick jokes arent even funny !

I'm that boring you follow me around, quoting me every f*cking day.

Go away, you wretched weasel, and take your negativity with you.

You bemoan the fact that I don't counter the "points":

Is there any wonder? Are you really suprised that I can't be bothered when this is the reaction to a draw?

"You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink."

If I led the anti's to water, I'd drown the f*cking lot of you in it.

wtf are you on about... this was a good thread before u dragged your fat a$s in and decided to enlighten us all with your bullsht.. give it a break no one here is insulting the manager or anything... its a discussion.. its what civilized people do so i wouldn’t expect you to understand... only insults I see thrown around are by you and apparently towards everybody who doesn’t agree with your opinion...

No, it wasn't a good thread. It was another pitiful excuse for people to have another dig at the boss.

It's tiresome. Just like you.