Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

No what I am and have been saying is that its easy to keep finding excuses every season for our disappointing starts to the season. The hard part is making a decent start and not being out of the race before its properly started.

This intergration one is the best ever though, BUY NEW PLAYERS AND WE FAIL BECAUSE WE HAVE NEW PLAYERS, dont buy new players and we fail because the squad needed strengthening. A lose lose excuse.

Way too simplistic mate, buy lots of players whilst you rebuild an entire team, and there will be integration issues, without fail, this is not an excuse but a fact.

Buy a few players(1-3) to enhance an established squad, where i believe we are now, and integration is something you can't use for a lack of competing in the league.

IF there is a valid reason as to why we have had poor starts, then that is the case, whether we choose to accept it or not. Rafa is midway through a project, a project that has realised success so far.

Tbh this is too early a discussion, as our season is over on Wednesday night, but i along with the rest of us can't help but comment.

As I explained in my previous example, Chelsea managed it or can you not grasp the fact. They brought in 5 FIRST TEAM PLAYERS and still won the league after having a great start to the season.I would imagine if integration was an issue 5 first team players would be more of a problem than we had with mainly squad players.

The fact that our players haven't performed at the level expected is more of a reason than integration.

Chelsea had also bought 13 players the previous season so I think that 20 new players counts as serious rebuilding.

[LFC2007]

The trick is to buy the RIGHT players and then the success will come. If you keep buying ordinary players then you will achieve limited success, there's no way we are going to win the league with strikers who don't manage 70+ goals in a season.

I know few strike partnerships who ever managed more than 70+ goals a season!

You mean 'team' that scores more than 70+ goals a season surely.

[zarababe]

Champions League Final 23 May 2007 !!

[account deleted by request]

The trick is to buy the RIGHT players and then the success will come. If you keep buying ordinary players then you will achieve limited success, there's no way we are going to win the league with strikers who don't manage 70+ goals in a season.

I know few strike partnerships who ever managed more than 70+ goals a season!

You mean 'team' that scores more than 70+ goals a season surely.

  Dixie Dean scored 60 but I'm not sure if his partner got 10 or not. 

[LFC2007]

I mean after the dinosaur age!

[redtrader74]

#

No what I am and have been saying is that its easy to keep finding excuses every season for our disappointing starts to the season. The hard part is making a decent start and not being out of the race before its properly started.

This intergration one is the best ever though, BUY NEW PLAYERS AND WE FAIL BECAUSE WE HAVE NEW PLAYERS, dont buy new players and we fail because the squad needed strengthening. A lose lose excuse.

Way too simplistic mate, buy lots of players whilst you rebuild an entire team, and there will be integration issues, without fail, this is not an excuse but a fact.

Buy a few players(1-3) to enhance an established squad, where i believe we are now, and integration is something you can't use for a lack of competing in the league.

IF there is a valid reason as to why we have had poor starts, then that is the case, whether we choose to accept it or not. Rafa is midway through a project, a project that has realised success so far.

Tbh this is too early a discussion, as our season is over on Wednesday night, but i along with the rest of us can't help but comment.

As I explained in my previous example, Chelsea managed it or can you not grasp the fact. They brought in 5 FIRST TEAM PLAYERS and still won the league after having a great start to the season.I would imagine if integration was an issue 5 first team players would be more of a problem than we had with mainly squad players.

The fact that our players haven't performed at the level expected is more of a reason than integration.

Chelsea had also bought 13 players the previous season so I think that 20 new players counts as serious rebuilding.

As i said before, Chelsea added their first choice players, they scoured the world for the best players they wanted in the positions required. We on the other hand started rebuilding a new side that year ON A BUDGET. Rafa DID NOT get his first choice, because we could not afford them. They added 5 players to a side that finished 2nd competitively, semi CL the year before. Therefore they were ahead of us, or don't you get?
BTW that year Rafa did manage to win something....

It is far easier to integrate better players into a very good team than the job Rafa had to do. While we were faffing about all year trying to get Gerrard to stay, they were winning the league.
Some of the people here have the memory of a goldfish, the club was not even considered a challenger for any trophy, Owen was out the door and Gerrard  had his bags packed, Rafa has brought us back from the brink of joining the ranks of Everton.

Integration was only part of the reason for our poor starts, not the only reason. I don't think Rafa is beyond criticism, but to campare what he is doing to what maureen has, is naieve.

MY point in these posts has been quite simple, i will expect to compete consistently in the league when the manager can get his first choice players, which if what we are led to believe will be after this summer, until then i will bask in the glow of the trophies he has won us.
It is clear we won't agree, i hoped for us to challenge for the title, whilst you expected to, without regard for the cicumstances.

[account deleted by request]

So its not integration its the quality of the players now  As for it being one of many excuses, THAT WAS WHAT I SAID. Every team has problems its the team that overcomes their problems that wins. Or should we just accept that Chelsea have more money, the Mancs have more quality, Arsenal play better football, and go playing tiddlewinks instead? If we can beat Barcelona, Chelsea and the Mancs in the cups I would think we should be able to beat Man city, Aston Villa , Blackburn etc

The simple truth is we got it wrong this season in the league. I don't say we should have won the league but we should have challenged for it. To never be in the race is disappointing, which is the whole point of this thread.

[LFC2007]

I have to agree entirely with what Redtrader has said on this occasion.

I have made the same point before, it's as though people can't distinguish between spending £100m and £250m. They're both huge sums of money, but that extra £150m is the difference between buying SWP or Pennant, or buying Robben or Gonzales, Kuyt or Schevchenko, Essien or Sissoko. It's a different league of spending altogether.

What Rafa did in his first season, on such a budget in his first year at a foreign club, and with such a depleted squad is something unbelievable.

My point would be this, compare the feelings you had before Rafa came to the feelings you have now. My feelings are of excitement, optimism and thanks that we chose Rafa in the first place. Everything seems to be slotting into place nicely with the new ownership, that was also a crucial part of our future.

[66-1112520797]

So its not integration its the quality of the players now  As for it being one of many excuses, THAT WAS WHAT I SAID. Every team has problems its the team that overcomes their problems that wins. Or should we just accept that Chelsea have more money, the Mancs have more quality, Arsenal play better football, and go playing tiddlewinks instead? If we can beat Barcelona, Chelsea and the Mancs in the cups I would think we should be able to beat Man city, Aston Villa , Blackburn etc

The simple truth is we got it wrong this season in the league. I don't say we should have won the league but we should have challenged for it. To never be in the race is disappointing, which is the whole point of this thread.

I agree with ya Saint. 

[account deleted by request]

What has that got to do with disappointing in the league this season? We were the best team in the league last season between October and the end of the season (most points) we also won the FA cup. Surely we should be expecting to challenge for the league ? No one is saying Rafa hasnt done a good job, but he and the team have disappointed me at least, in the league. We came 3rd and then spent MORE than any other team except Chelsea. To then be out of the race before it starts is not disappointing? You must have a very poor opinion of our team if you expected us to never even make a challenge. If you expected us to make a challenge and we didn't, you must be disappointed as your expectations and hopes havent been met.

[LFC2007]

Yeh, we got it wrong in the league this season, but have we been on an even playing field financially with Chelsea or the mancs during Rafa's tenure?

Financially, Nowhere near.

We should be able to beat the likes of Man City, Villa Blackburn etc. No-one is excusing that, but Europe is a different scenario. Knock out competitions are completely different in terms of a) style of play b) tactics c) mentality.

Maybe some of the players who have come in find it difficult playing away in the Premiership, that may be an issue of mentality, confidence and character. That combined with a deficit in terms of finances, injuries and over-rotation are reasons why we have not done it in the league. We should have done better, no question about it.

All redtrader is trying to do is give a bit of perspective.

[LFC2007]

What has that got to do with disappointing in the league this season? We were the best team in the league last season between October and the end of the season (most points) we also won the FA cup. Surely we should be expecting to challenge for the league ? No one is saying Rafa hasnt done a good job, but he and the team have disappointed me at least, in the league. We came 3rd and then spent MORE than any other team except Chelsea. To then be out of the race before it starts is not disappointing? You must have a very poor opinion of our team if you expected us to never even make a challenge. If you expected us to make a challenge and we didn't, you must be disappointed as your expectations and hopes havent been met.

Of course we're disappointed, I expected a title challenge this season. I've already gone over some of the finer details of the reasons in earlier posts.

[account deleted by request]

Maybe some of the players who have come in find it difficult playing away in the Premiership, that may be an issue of mentality, confidence and character

If you read back in this thread I already used that excuse, and indirectly so did Rafa

As I have again already said Rafa has spent MORE than the Mancs since he came, but they obviously had a better starting point.

The whole point is how well Rafa has done to get us to this point where we are disappointed when we dont challenge. Under Houllier the last few years it wasn't disappointing because we knew any challenge would be fleeting.

[dawson99]

we all going round in cricles here.

we are ALL dissapointed with the league

we are ALL not dissapointed with the champs league

we have mixed feelings about the overall season.

[LFC2007]

Maybe some of the players who have come in find it difficult playing away in the Premiership, that may be an issue of mentality, confidence and character

If you read back in this thread I already used that excuse, and indirectly so did Rafa

As I have again already said Rafa has spent MORE than the Mancs since he came, but they obviously had a better starting point.

The whole point is how well Rafa has done to get us to this point where we are disappointed when we dont challenge. Under Houllier the last few years it wasn't disappointing because we knew any challenge would be fleeting.

Rafa spent more than the Mancs,but like you said they had a better starting point and they have far more experienced players who have won the league over an over, just like their manager. Spurs have spent more than the Mancs too. We are a fledgling team compared to theirs.

We know we need to improve, I'm not saying we don't. But I'm just putting this in perspective, that's all it is about.