Liverpool FC Forum

[Owzat]

I'm sure some, most or all of you heard the stat that we haven't won our opening three games to the season since 1994/95. Well how good is this start compared to our previous Premiership starts?

First Four games

08/09 WWDW = 10
07/08 WDWW = 10
06/07 DWLL = 4
05/06 DWDD = 6
04/05 DWLW = 7
03/04 LDDW = 5
02/03 WWDD = 8
01/02 WLLW = 6
00/01 WLDW = 7
99/00 WLLW = 6
98/99 WDWW = 10
97/98 DLDW = 5
96/97 DWDW = 8
95/96 WLWW = 9
94/95 WWWD = 10
93/94 WWWL = 9
92/93 LWLD = 4

So already Rafa has picked up as many points from the first four games as any previous season, but before people get too excited it has happened three times previously and not been converted to the holy grail. To win the Premiership I reckon you need 27 wins, the most games any side has won in the Premiership is 29 and the least is 21 - the mancs drew 12 games as well and ended up on 76 points, three points ahead of Newcastle. The average is 26 but, since and including Arsenal's "invincibles" season, the wins have been 26, 29, 29, 28 and 27. It might be less this season, only two sides remain unbeaten four games in and there's a lot more money around among the rest of the Premiership

So what would it take for this season to be the best Premiership start ever? Well a win obviously, but would that top previous seasons?

First Five games

07/08 WDWWD = 11
06/07 DWLLW = 7
05/06 DWDDD = 7
04/05 DWLWL = 7
03/04 LDDWW = 8
02/03 WWDDD = 9
01/02 WLLWW = 9
00/01 WLDWW = 10
99/00 WLLWW = 9
98/99 WDWWL = 10
97/98 DLDWW = 8
96/97 DWDWW = 11
95/96 WLWWL = 9
94/95 WWWDL = 10
93/94 WWWLW = 12
92/93 LWLDD = 5

A win would do it, a draw would not. Not a bad game to have in Stoke at home, and on the previous three occaisons Liverpool have picked up 10 points from the first four games in the Premiership, the fifth game was drawn or lost. In fact Liverpool lose or draw the fifth game half the time in the Premiership

First game : P17 W10 D5 L2
Second game : P17 W9 D3 L5
Third game : P17 W5 D7 L5
Fourth game : P17 W11 D4 L2
Fifth game : P16 W8 D4 L4

Amazingly Houllier only ever won the second game of the season once (3-0 vs Southampton home, 02/03), and the same goes for the third game of the season (4-1 vs Newcastle away, 98/99) As it goes we don't often lose the first or fourth games of the Premiership, shame about the other 36!

[Effes]

We should defo do Stoke - if we can follow that up by winning at Everton, it'll
be a tremendous start. Long way to go tho.

[tubby]

I think we can win at Everton as well as Stoke. Everton are not as solid as they were a few years ago and Rafa should have plenty of knowledge on that Fellani guy from when we played S Liege. I just hope 1) we stay injury free after midweek and 2) our midweek performance isnt affected.

[bigmick]

The thing is with Man Utd playing Chelsea next, as I keep saying we have a huge opportunity here to build ourselves a little cushion. Of course we should beat Stoke at Home, and then we should be putting out or strongest team each and every week to keep the pressure up. It's worth remembering that we haven't really got into anything like top gear yet, and if we can be a few points clear before we actually find it then anything could happen.

I just hope and pray we've learnt the lessons of fixtures such as Portsmouth away and Reading away last season. If, and it's a big if, we can forget about the wholesale styling and keep it simple, we maybe about to have our first genuine and sustained challenge for the title during Rafa's tenure. I do think the team is good enough to go extremely close if given the opportunity and given an even run of luck, as I have for the last three seasons.

[Owzat]

Just done a bit of research, posted this in another forum so this is a copy and paste job.



I had a look at Arsenal's start to last season and it was better than Chelsea and Liverpool's this season. Liverpool's start to this season is their best ever to a Premiership season, two points better off after 13 games than in the ill fated 2002/3 season.

So I decided to have a look at a few Premiership starts, selecting the best points tallies in the Premiership, Arsenal's unbeaten 03/04 season and a few selected others including a fantastic start to the season by........................................... Newcastle

Off To A Flyer? (Final Points In Brackets)

05/06 Chelsea (91) P13 W11 D1 L1 PTS 34
06/07 Man Utd (89) P13 W11 D1 L1 PTS 34
93/94 Man Utd (92*) P13 W11 D1 L1 PTS 34
95/96 Newcastle (78) P13 W11 D1 L1 PTS 34

03/04 Arsenal (90) P13 W10 D3 L0 PTS 33 (UNBEATEN SEASON)
07/08 Arsenal (83) P13 W10 D3 L0 PTS 33

04/05 Chelsea (95) P13 W10 D2 L1 PTS 32
08/09 Chelsea (??) P13 W10 D2 L1 PTS 32
08/09 Liverpool (??) P13 W10 D2 L1 PTS 32

06/07 Chelsea (83) P13 W10 D1 L2 PTS 31

07/08 Man Utd (87) P13 W9 D3 L1 PTS 30
04/05 Arsenal (83) P13 W9 D3 L1 PTS 30
00/01 Man Utd (80) P13 W9 D3 L1 PTS 30
02/03 Liverpool (64) P13 W9 D3 L1 PTS 30

01/02 Liverpool (80) P13 W9 D2 L2 PTS 29

99/00 Man Utd (89) P13 W8 D3 L2 PTS 27
05/06 Man Utd (83) P13 W8 D3 L2 PTS 27
94/95 Blackburn (89*) P13 W8 D3 L2 PTS 27

*42 game season, positioned according to points x 38/42



A good start doesn't always count for much mind, Arsenal finished 3rd in 07/08 after a good start and the mancs rose to the top despite losing more games than Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea. The mancs didn't win any of their first three games, still ended up with 30 points after 13 games which is only two points worse off than the current top pair. There's no guaranteeing there hasn't been a better start than those above so don't take the list as comprehensive, it would take a fantastic start to better those though.

So by my reckoning, unless someone else went t1ts up bigtime and didn't even make 80 points after a start of 35+ points in 13 games, that should certainly identify the best starts to a Premiership season. Another 64 points by either of the top two would see a record Premiership points tally, in fact a record top flight points tally of 96. One way of getting there would be P25 W20 D4 L1 PTS 64, that would be a mammoth achievement. Chelsea managed just one point less than that in setting the current best of 95 with the same record as both Liverpool and Chelsea currently have - 32 points from 13 games

[Rush Job]

Good stuff.

Just keep plugging away and keep the presure on chelsea and the mancs for that matter because if they go another three points behind they`ll not win it this season IMO.

[aCe']

in terms of quality of players and consistency of results ... the title is surely Chelsea's to lose this season...
they have a winning mentality and very valuable experience when it comes to winning when needed and dealing with a title challenge and all the pressures involved... we quite simply dont...
Winning against our direct rivals is going to be vital for any sort of title challenge because quite simply i think the best chance of Chelsea dropping points is going to be when they play the likes of Manutd and Arsenal... NEVER forget about Manutd... another team with a great squad and a winning mentality... can beat the smaller sides easily and cant see them dropping many points now that their main players are back and playing...
Our best chance in ages and ill only start considering us as serious title challengers when we start looking confortable in beating the smaller sides ..