Liverpool FC Forum

[RedAnt]

If this is indeed a tactic, then its not one I particularly enjoy. With each passing minute we go further and further back and resort to hoofing it, which results in it coming straight back, and with interest.
In training they should work on the likes of Aspas, Sterling, Ibe and Henderson being able to hold the ball up in the oppositons half. They dont seem to understand the pressure the midfield and then the defence is under, and end up increasing that pressure through their weak and careless play.
If I am to be criticital, its not that we dont have the players to do this, its that they dont seem to know how to do it and play on as if nothing is happening.
Show them the DVD and point it out

Spot on at the end there. It's the feeling in the some players, and sometimes the bench aren't even aware of the pressure. Pretty hard to watch, especially on a TV screen, when we get spanked like a b*tch by teams we once would have been spanking. Every games like a golden goal game. It's not healthy!

[aCe']

Here's something to be considered. I think Gerrard has been doing more defensively than many seem to give him credit for. I think at times, he carries Lucas and is the one bursting a gut to get on the other side of a running midfielder. For me, as a manager, if you're concerned about the stamina of your central midfielders then you try to get a hold of the ball rather than sit back and invite pressure and give your holding midfielders more running to do. It's common sense. I dont buy for a second that Rodgers would want us playing the counter home and away in the second half of games. It's nonsense and bad management on his part whether he said he did it intentionally or not. It has cost us two points and we were lucky it didnt cost us more. Outisde Moses and the largely ineffective Sterling, we dont have much pace in the side. Our tempo is too slow and our players without Suarez (or Gerrard playing further up) arent suited to that system. Possession has become our beread and butter and the only alternative option we have in the side is Victor Moses. He isnt a top quality player and he's unlikely to be a major influence in the game but he offers something different. You look at all the side competing for a top4 spot and they all have different options and different systems/tactics that they can use within games. We desperately lack in that department. It was very obvious against Swansea that in the second half, they pushed their backline further up and made some tactical changes that Rodgers couldnt respond to. Whether its the personnel or the tactics that were the problem is irrelevant, the fact remains that for the 5th game (4th league) in a row, we fail to adjust to changes made by the opposition.

I think Gerrard on the bench in any game is a recipe for disaster. To some extent, same could be said about Coutinho. Gerrard's passing creates chances from deeper and Coutinho's dribbling and vision give us an outlet further up the pitch where the ball isn't lost right away. Both are vital especially given our deficiencies. What I would recommend is players like Aspas and Henderson making way. Both do very little in attacking terms when we dont have possession and I'd much rather have Moses and Allen/Alberto in there attempting something different.

[damjan193]

The reason I find BR to be arrogant is that his approach dosen't take the opposition into account. It's almost like saying 'if we get this tactic right, all will fall under our attacking, passing game, so we don't need to counter the opposition".

I disagree with this. He took the opposition fully into account against Aston Villa and Man Utd. We denied the space in our half for the Villa players and denied their fast build up to goal so they had to take their time in the build up which isn't exactly their main strength. While against Man U. we cut their supplies. Their midfield had no option but to pass the ball back to their defenders while their wingers were dealt with by our full-backs. They barely had half a chance.

I'm still convinced that parking the bus in the second half is part of the tactic, but it also looks likely that the team just isn't fully suited for that. It's a bit weird saying that because we've got the results so far but the performance, especially against Swansea, shows that it might not last long. I think the defenders are doing their jobs more or less, it's just the midfield that doesn't help them much at times. Might be a fitness problem because Henderson is the only one that is chasing players. We are also not good enough in our counter attacks, which is a must if we want to defend and sit back for 45 minutes.

There is one thing that I'm really wondering about. What happens if the result is still level at half time?

[RedAnt]

I'm with you on that Ace, though I think Gerrard should be played further up. It's in his blood to bust a gut and even when he plays deeper, you won't stop him bombing forwards when as captain he sees the need to. I seldom see Lucas making the numbers up front on a counter attack for example. I feel his more withdrawn role is counter-productive in that a more attacking Gerrard gives an opposition much more to think about. Aspas, Couthino, Sterling, they're too lightweight. Henderson as the drive and energy for the role, but not the technical ability. With a team such as ours, attack really is the best form of defence. For all our technical ability, we really shouldn't be using a defensive shape until we have the correct personnel on the pitch.

[jacdaniel]

I think its a forced tactic because our players aren't fit enough yet to make it through 90 minutes with the intensity of the first half.
Sturridge is unfit and has been struggling with niggling injuries.
Johnson / Toure / Allen / Agger / Cissokho / kelly have all had some kind of injury or still do.
Suarez is obviously banned and Im assuming not completely match fit. 
Sakho and Moses probably haven't got too many games under their belts. 

All of this generally points to a lack of full fitness in the team and not enough options on the bench. 

Its also been suggested on other forums that it could be a training plan were the players are working in a way that they'll reach full fitness around Dec / Jan for the 2nd half of the season.

[RedAnt]

The reason I find BR to be arrogant is that his approach dosen't take the opposition into account. It's almost like saying 'if we get this tactic right, all will fall under our attacking, passing game, so we don't need to counter the opposition".

I disagree with this. He took the opposition fully into account against Aston Villa and Man Utd. We denied the space in our half for the Villa players and denied their fast build up to goal so they had to take their time in the build up which isn't exactly their main strength. While against Man U. we cut their supplies. Their midfield had no option but to pass the ball back to their defenders while their wingers were dealt with by our full-backs. They barely had half a chance.

I'm still convinced that parking the bus in the second half is part of the tactic, but it also looks likely that the team just isn't fully suited for that. It's a bit weird saying that because we've got the results so far but the performance, especially against Swansea, shows that it might not last long. I think the defenders are doing their jobs more or less, it's just the midfield that doesn't help them much at times. Might be a fitness problem because Henderson is the only one that is chasing players. We are also not good enough in our counter attacks, which is a must if we want to defend and sit back for 45 minutes.

There is one thing that I'm really wondering about. What happens if the result is still level at half time?

With that comment I was referring more to our overall structure, shipping out the more physical players and replacing them with smaller, more technical players. All teams in the PL need to cover all bases. We should have cover for each position, but players of differing styles.

Again it's a lack of squad depth. I've already mentioned (as have others) that Aspas wasn't the right choice sub on Monday. The players on the pitch, under intense physical pressure need a body coming on. Our own flexing of muscles that makes the dominant opposition think "oh-oh..he's a hard f*cker", at the same time as our lads puffing out their chests and saying "it's f*cking on!"

It's textbook management and a big black mark against our season planning.

[supersub]

If this is indeed a tactic, then its not one I particularly enjoy. With each passing minute we go further and further back and resort to hoofing it, which results in it coming straight back, and with interest.
In training they should work on the likes of Aspas, Sterling, Ibe and Henderson being able to hold the ball up in the oppositons half. They dont seem to understand the pressure the midfield and then the defence is under, and end up increasing that pressure through their weak and careless play.
If I am to be criticital, its not that we dont have the players to do this, its that they dont seem to know how to do it and play on as if nothing is happening.
Show them the DVD and point it out

I think Brendan needs to watch the DVD and learn quickly to recify the problem.......I do think our captains role in the midfield retreat is partly to blame for the 2nd half problem ....not the player he was and he knows it

[Thommo's perm]

If this is indeed a tactic, then its not one I particularly enjoy. With each passing minute we go further and further back and resort to hoofing it, which results in it coming straight back, and with interest.
In training they should work on the likes of Aspas, Sterling, Ibe and Henderson being able to hold the ball up in the oppositons half. They dont seem to understand the pressure the midfield and then the defence is under, and end up increasing that pressure through their weak and careless play.
If I am to be criticital, its not that we dont have the players to do this, its that they dont seem to know how to do it and play on as if nothing is happening.
Show them the DVD and point it out

I think Brendan needs to watch the DVD and learn quickly to recify the problem.......I do think our captains role in the midfield retreat is partly to blame for the 2nd half problem ....not the player he was and he knows it

Agreed
I dont think the england games helped him either

[supersub]

If this is indeed a tactic, then its not one I particularly enjoy. With each passing minute we go further and further back and resort to hoofing it, which results in it coming straight back, and with interest.
In training they should work on the likes of Aspas, Sterling, Ibe and Henderson being able to hold the ball up in the oppositons half. They dont seem to understand the pressure the midfield and then the defence is under, and end up increasing that pressure through their weak and careless play.
If I am to be criticital, its not that we dont have the players to do this, its that they dont seem to know how to do it and play on as if nothing is happening.
Show them the DVD and point it out

I think Brendan needs to watch the DVD and learn quickly to recify the problem.......I do think our captains role in the midfield retreat is partly to blame for the 2nd half problem ....not the player he was and he knows it

Agreed
I dont think the england games helped him either

he won't give up England and the chance to be captain when they return home from Brazil early next year

[stmichael]

I didn't think we were that bad in the 2nd half on Monday until Coutinho went off. As soon as he was subbed we appeared clueless which was a result of us being unable to counterattack as a result. Sturridge is still not fully fit and Moses was knackered. Aspas just can't hold the ball.

[Thommo's perm]

I didn't think we were that bad in the 2nd half on Monday until Coutinho went off. As soon as he was subbed we appeared clueless which was a result of us being unable to counterattack as a result. Sturridge is still not fully fit and Moses was knackered. Aspas just can't hold the ball.

We need to instill a holding on to the ball mentality. To me they didnt seem to understand what was required of them, wich is why we kept losing posession time after time.
Rodgers needs to educate them asap

[woof woof !]

I didn't think we were that bad in the 2nd half on Monday until Coutinho went off. As soon as he was subbed we appeared clueless which was a result of us being unable to counterattack as a result. Sturridge is still not fully fit and Moses was knackered. Aspas just can't hold the ball.

We need to instill a holding on to the ball mentality. To me they didnt seem to understand what was required of them, wich is why we kept losing posession time after time.
Rodgers needs to educate them asap

Sorry mate but I think that's Bollox, despite being unbeaten so far this term. We just aren't equipped to to sit and hold onto the ball when under pressure.

We're a team built on the managers original philosophy of keeping possession whilst always looking to go forward

The minute we deviate from that idea we f'ucking disintegrate.

Attack minded players are suddenly asked to just keep possession and hold the ball 

If anything it's Rodgers and not the players who need an education here. If he really wants to "suck it up" why not bring on Toure  (great utility player) alongside Lucas at DM instead of the not prem standard Aspas ?

And before anyone blames the only flaw in Rodgers plan down to us losing Coutinho, for an extra £3 miillion we could have had Eriksen instead of Aspas coming off the bench .   

[Benny The Noon]

I think BR needs to find the balance to last season when we started slowly in games and then finished well and this season when we start with a lot of pace then die away

If its a tactic to sit deep and concede possession for 45 mins and be under the cosh for a whole half then it's a stupid tactic. We have ridden our luck well so far but it will run out. So far the GK that has made the most saves in the Prem is Mignolet - teams are creating a lot of chances against us because we no control in the game.

Fitness is a key issue - because we go at 100 miles an hour at the start pressing the opposition we burn the energy very quickly. Not many pro players can play a game at 100miles an hour. Need to balance out the energy levels through the game

[stmichael]

A feeble shot from 30 yards can count as a shot on target so that stat means nothing about Mignolet having the most saves to make. He's hardly been overworked. He had two saves to make in 90 minutes from Walters against Stoke (one penalty) and two from Benteke against Villa. Against United he had one shot to save from a Nani shot and that was it. Monday was the first time we gave up more chances than we should have but that was partly down to having a completely rejigged back four.

[Benny The Noon]

Mignolet has been the busier keeper in our games bar the first one - even then he made the more crucial saves.

Results wise we are doing well but our performances have been very shakey so far. Need to improve.