Liverpool FC Forum

[neil]

two '0's stamped on the puck? and speckly?

[Judge]

dont you love it when the bandwagon is out

im sure its a good show

[Ciggy]

The odd spliff cant kill you, its safe to say none of us here are addicks if people smoke a spiff for recreational purposes thats up to them, the only problem I have reguarding drugs are drug dealers that sell heroin and crack, as Ive lost 3 mates to heroin and have 2 cousins on crack.
But a spliff never done anyone any harm 
WTF Andy knives pmsl that brings back memories remember the plastic bottle

[Paul C]

Weed doesn't hurt you, as CGGY said it's the Class A drugs like Heroin that are bad

[woof woof !]

Never met an aggresive stoner , but have met loads of hostile junkies and drunks .

[andy_g]

it's far too oversimplified to go into a good vs bad argument over drugs, i just don't believe you can say weed is ok/good while heroin and other class As are bad. where does alcohol fit into this equation? good because it's not classified/controlled, or bad because it kills a lot of people? is ecstasy good because it gives people a lot of fun, or is it bad because the law says its illegal and it kills brain cells?

heroin in itself cannot be bad. its a powerful drug and highly addictive, though at the same time its very easy for the addicted body to deal with if it has enough. its a problem (bad?) when the body doesn't get what it needs and starts to fail in all sorts of nasty ways. so maybe its the junkies who are bad? because they're ugly and rob people and are prostitutes to get money for their evil habit? again, its not that simple. i know people who take heroin once every couple of weeks and have no problem at all, they love it. i also know a hard core addict who would never dream of hurting anyone or robbing anyone to get his fix, there are other ways.

maybe cocaine is bad? no, it just makes you look like a right wanker in the eyes of people who are not on cocaine. the obsession with having to have it at a party to prove you're one of the cool crowd is more sad than bad.

the reason why drugs policy is so fucked up in this country is because the government have always taken the 'drugs are bad' stance - if its classified/illegal its bad, if its not its fine as long as they're creaming the tax off it. the media gets the same message, amplifies it 1000 times and brainwashes all the tabloid readin zombies into the same mantra.

there's so much disgusting hypocrisy around drugs - just look at the disgusting way that kate moss is being treated. the whole cocaine infested media and fashion industry are destroying her career for having the odd line at a party and having the indecency to be snapped doing it. the same fashion industry who a few years ago made millions by selling the idea of 'heroin chic'. so much bullshit.

make your own mind up about drugs. i've tried just about every single one of them over the last 25 years. some i carried on using (at times even abusing) for some time, others i took once or twice to really see what it was all about. i spent about 3 years being a party monster and not being able to bear the thought of going out without a pocket full of tablets to 'ensure' i had a good time. now the thought of having an E is completely alien to me, i realised that i will always be a wanker on coke, spliffs make me too paranoid (though still hard to say no to at times) and that overall i've lost too much time and brain cells in the pursuit of fun through drugs.

most of the people who come out with stupid blanket statements about drugs and the people that take them or stupid, uninformed, hypocritical or all three.

(not having a go at you personally there paul)

anyway, what was the question again?

[Woollyback]

anyway, what was the question again?

short term memory loss, a classic symptom


anyway, what was I going to say....   erm.... no idea, can't remember now


ah yes, i remember; one of the major problems surrounding drug use in the uk is lack of research into the effects of various drugs, leading to ignorance not just amongst users but also legislators. the government's policy is still that funding for drug research will only go to laboratories whose specific aim is to show that a particular drug is a bad thing, rather than funding laboratories to do independent, open-minded research and find out the real truth about what we inject/smoke/snort every weekend

i don't do any drugs any more apart from the (very) occasional spliff which does me more good (it keeps me off the booze for a night) than harm   the one drug i loathe and would never try is cocaine, i have never seen anything turn a normal person into a complete and utter wanker in the space of 2 minutes. there's something bone crushingly dull and tedious about somebody on coke, continued even after the come-down when they spend the rest of the week telling you how cool coke is                       
off to cunts corner with them at once!

[Big Niall]

drugs were never really my thing (except booze) but I have no problem with people doing their own thing. they only thing that really annoys me is people that go on and on about the drugs they do. They get so boring and think they're cool when they are as interesting as a snot. A few mates I used to have ended up with every discussion being about drugs and every sentance started with "I was so wasted"

I'd rather have an evening with a bible basher, at least their story has a few twists and turns, goodies and baddies and a good ol murder.

[wrighty (not mark!)]

each to their own to be honest. However, no matter what drug you have A,B,C CLASS. It's obviously not good for you (As ale isn't either) and should be left well alone.

I believe that the Government should take a tougher stance on drugs and prevent people getting such easy access to it.
From what one person mentioned on here said, it is the drug dealers who should be locked up for a v.long time and the users who are addicted should get all the help (within reason)they need.

we've all had weed at one point, but I personally, wouldn't have it again because not only is it c.rap but ale is so much better!

Seriously though,addicts and alcoholics need some help.

2 things.
1)Punish the dealers heavily.
2)Rehabilitate the addicts

[JBG]

I think there is a bit of a misconception with smoking grass or hash. I don't think its as harmless as people make out (all things being relative of course). Smoke enough of it and lung cancer will kill you as each spliff is four or five times more toxic than a tobacco cigerrette.

I also know a few people who turned into complete spacers after becoming "addicted" to weed. It caused problems in their lives, such as forgetting to sit exams etc.

However, tobacco and alcohol are far more dangerous to drugs. People say that to drink alcohol in moderation is fine, so why can't the same be said of weed?

Like everything, there's nothing wrong with the odd spliff, but people that smoke a lot of weed can mess their lives up.

I see legalise it and ban cigarettes   (I'm still a 20 a day smoker and would do anything to stop).

[76-1115222408]

WOW, This topic has turned out to be a great read in actual fact. And there has been some great input from all angles.

The only thing I wanted to add (which came about after reading Wrighty's Post) was about the importing of drugs and the government (sorry, but you know waht I'm Like ).

Basically, if we (society) wan to curb the drug problem, it needs to start at the TOP (Gvrnmnt) and not the BOTTOM (everyday shota, sorry for the slang there, Drug dealer).

The key to the problem, is the Drugs getting into the country, if they dont get in, they cant be sold. Simple as that (though of course I KNOW it is not that simple!!).
But C'mon think about it, there is no where near as many drug seizures on the news as there used to be in the late 80s and the majority of the 90's...Why is this??  I dont know, but the influx of drugs is so large, that no matter how large a seizure they make, it will never make a huge impact on the street (at least not in London) as there are so many avenues for the dealers to 'reload' from.

Another quick point, just to say that, although the 'street seller' or 'shota' as they are called down here are on the frontline, I would definetly say, that the MAJORITY, do NOT go to schools and try and get kids on drugs as is often the misconception.
All the sellers I know/have known (Class A Im talking about here) that sell Brown (Heroin) or White (crack), sell to people that have been addicted FOR YEARS and are often in their 30's and 40's, often businessmen and women (surprise, surprise).
People usually get into drugs, through pier pressure more than drug dealers instigating it.

Dealers often get a very bad name, but the majority of the time, they are generally decent people, who happen to have made the decision to sell drugs, I know plenty that work AND 'shot'. They often get labeled murderers, but they are not forcing drugs on anyone, people (the addictees) have made their OWN decisions in life, and WANT the drugs. End Of. But it is made out to be the dealers fault, IMO, it is NOT, the people who are buying the drugs, need to be accountable for their OWN actions.
I will give an example to show how dealers are not treated the same:
We all know George Best Is an Alcoholic, but he is still frequently photographed by the paparazzi in Pubs or bars, with a drink in hand - my point is, why isnt the bartender or pub owner, given the same sort of stick as a dealer would in the same type of situation. I mean, them seving him drink, is basically killing him is it not?  I have NEVER seen the employees of said Pub/bar being mentioned in a negative light.

Let me just say, I know many lives have been destroyed and or lost (I Know because my cousin in Glasgow died two years ago through 'bad' heroin!!), but we still need to realise, that people have made their own choices (again let me reiterate there are times where this is not the case and I am by now way detracting from the brutality of such cases).
So I dont want people coming back and saying I dont care, all i will say is, You dont have a clue, as I said above I have lost a family member to the vices of Heroin, and have seen the affects of Class A drugs on many local single young mums on my estate and i just fear for the children, because if the parent/s is caught by the drug, all their attention will not be on their children, but on how to get the next 'rock' or 'bag'.

Let me also add, that i dont think that society or the government are really aware of the scale of the drugs problem. I mean there are SO MANY drug dealers in the London area, that you would think that the market would not be able to sustain so many dealers, but this is simply not the case, and they all have customers, which obvioulsy means there are many addicted people in and around London (talking Class A here btw!).
There are so many dealers as the market will allow for this - maybe we should be looking at reasons for why the drug market has become so large, why are so many people turning to Class A drugs??  Is it society, personal problems, mental problems.....I dont know, but would like to know.
We need to find reasons for this, and then this could be starting place for tackling the problem as a whole, no druggies, no need for dealers?


Personally, I think legalisation would help a lot, but also personally, I would hate that, as the qulaity (of hashish/skunk etc;) would go down, and no doubt the tax would be extortionate, as it is in general.

Wow, that went on a bit, sorry, didnt realise was so long...Sometimes I just carried away

By the way, that was a great post Andy_G!!!

[neil]

stop blaming the govenment, chill with the conspiracy s.hit, I for one do not want to live in a police/nanny state. We make our own decisions( as you say). These are the days of market forces, if the market dictates that it is financially sound to utilise 100 donkies knowing that 70 will evade detection, well people will take advantage of that, and do. I much prefer to keep my taxes down (spend it on my children), let the donkies do their thing and ensure I bring up my loved ones correctly. I used to hear your drugs conspiracy theory on 70's american drug docu-dramas and from ethnic american politicians.

[76-1115222408]

Neil, what are you talking about mate, no conspiracy here, if you read it properly all I am saying is, it is not the 'street seller' who brings it into the country, there are bigger fish in the pond that do that, and it should be the governments job to target THOSE people first in my opinion thats all I am getting at in relation to the government.

I am not saying that the Govt. is linked to the drugs trade like CIA which were, to help fund the vietnam war.

[Woollyback]

customs estimate that they sieze between 10 and 15% of the drugs that pass through our ports and airports

there is a collossal market for drugs in this country and the only way to reduce that market is to remove the demand. if you simply try to remove the supply, the demand stays the same but the price goes up that's all.

i have no idea what the solution is but the current action on drugs simply isn't working, usage increases every year without fail. the biggest problem with drugs isn't the effects of the drug itself, it's the crime that goes with it; from gun crime dealer vs dealer to the countless burglaries/street robberies that occur to help some smackhead fund his habit. whatever the solution is things need to change and we need to understand that drugs are here to stay so now's the time for the government to have a grown-up debate

[wrighty (not mark!)]

From what 'Liverpool AnyTime' said, I can see where he is coming from and the message is to 'cut the head off the snake'. However, even though it is true that we should start from the top, the problem is more fundamental than first percieved.

I do not agree completely that drug addiction is simply down to a straight-forward choice. Also, in juxtaposing an alcholic buying a pint or a spritzer to an addict buying a bag of white is poorly misguided.

Drugs are illegal and by far more addictive than alcohol ever will be. Plus, as long as alcohol is legal, we will never prevent the users of it occasionally 'slipping through the net'. Even though the social consequences are percieved to be similar to addiction and the break-down of families, it is conversley the consequences of the society that can breed addiction.

There are wide ranging measures to prevent drug abuse and I believe every one of these measures should be expoited rather than just saying 'Let's stop the trafficers coming in', because quite simply, you won't.Not all of them.

Firstly, a good family background can be a good blueprint in preventing a person from turning to a life of crime but is not always fool-proof.
Secondly, more in-depth education on the perils of drug-use and Alcohol addiction should be hit home in latter primary and Secondary schools nationwide.
Thirdly, invoke tough laws on the people who promote drug-use. They should be locked up for a very long time. For people who are found in posession of drugs, again, they should be punished heavily but while in prison, they should be reformed also.

Drugs are on most occasions the root of crime and social breakdown. I am not saying that carrying out all the measures that I have proposed will not only eliminate drugs but would also make crime vanish as that would be a bad misconception. But I am saying that it would put us on the right track to a safer Britain.