Thatcher

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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:10 am

Benny The Noon » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:57 pm wrote:I'm not in the Army and I have never voted Tory in my life.

But lets not forget the current state of the country because of Labour selling the country down the river.

No doubt the Labour that you voted in


the so called labour party just carried on with thatchers policies, blair carried on with the privatisation agenda (even privatising parts of the NHS which thatcher wouldnt have touched with a barge pole) and they carried on de-regulating the banks like thatcher preached and look where it took us.
just because the label on the tin has got labour party written on it doesnt mean they were carrying out socialist policies.
thatcherism took us to the brink of collapse and needed good old socialism to rescue it.

and when you said that someone in the city was doing just as important a job as a manual labourer you missed my point, the fella in the city of london is probably doing a far more important job than the labourer, my point is all that talk of if you work hard you get your rewards is a load of $h1te, people slog their guts out for a pittance in this country. working hard doesnt mean you will get rich, far from it.
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Postby Kenny Kan » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:15 am

I don't agree with everything a controversial Thatcher did. Yet, it should be remembered Britain was known as the "sick man of Europe" thanks to six years of Marxist Labour. But people were so divided/fed-up by the left that she was voted in for 3 terms!

In that respect nothing changes and it's like a cycle, Labour spend whether times are good or bad (spend in bad, save in good) - they leave the country bust (as they did in '79), the Tory's come in with cuts to public spending, fiscal austerity, giving leg-ups to bankers while sneering at the poor. Their voted out, Labour come back in (with all the money saved by Tory cuts) and blow the money again and so the cycle begins.

While Conservatives are supported and bribed with millions from the City's bankers, Labour are the exact same with Unions, whom it's leaders are just champagne socialists looking to line their own pockets by fighting for more power over government.

They are no better than each other.
Last edited by Kenny Kan on Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Kharhaz » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:48 am

I couldnt agree any more with ycsatbjywtbiastkamb than I already do. You only have to look around here in Grimsby to see the damage that cow did.
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Postby dundreamin » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:25 am

Labour sold the country down the river WTF are you on? Thatcher privatized everything and all her cronies here and abroad got there snouts in the trough. She sold off council houses without replacing them causing untold homelessness. She went to war to secure a election. She ran down the manafacturing base from which this country will NEVER recover. She had Jimmy Saville in her home every new year because she had to cover up the peadophille ring which most of the cabinet and royal family have/are involved in. Shall I go on?? And I have,nt evev mentioned hillsbrough yet
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Postby Kenny Kan » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:09 am

The deceptive Ed Heath saw his conservative government brought to it's knees by oil shortages and miners strikes by '73. Wilson came in and throughout the late 70's strikes were very common. As I said during this circa we were the "sick man of Europe", the economy stagnated, the trade unions were bossing and dictating the political/economic floor - Britain was practically being run by the Unions. Inflation during Labour's reign reached a whopping 25%. '76-'79 saw food shortages, power cuts, household refuse uncollected, and the dead left un-buried, all under LABOUR. Then of course 78/79 saw the winter of discontent which saw the working class and the antagonists (trade unions) rebel against their own party - now James Callahan's LABOUR PARTY!  This new radical left wing socialism of the 1970's split traditional left wing votes and Thatcher came to power and stayed there for 3 terms while Labour and the like failed to get their act together.

I don't doubt what Thatcher did during her time was absolutely ruthless (my mother will agree with the Scousers as well as many other northerners - she despised Thatcher even with a home county accent and she wasn't the only one). Thatcher's failures and apparent contempt for working classes are easy pickings for the baying mob and their pitch forks but it's wise to remember Marxist Labour's role in giving her a helping hand to power. In effect though, it could be said that the incompetence of Labour pre Thatcher lead her to hard pressed cuts:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicd ... picks=true


Ideally Britain needed, and still does need a centrist party.
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:39 am

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:10 pm wrote:
Benny The Noon » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:57 pm wrote:I'm not in the Army and I have never voted Tory in my life.

But lets not forget the current state of the country because of Labour selling the country down the river.

No doubt the Labour that you voted in


the so called labour party just carried on with thatchers policies, blair carried on with the privatisation agenda (even privatising parts of the NHS which thatcher wouldnt have touched with a barge pole) and they carried on de-regulating the banks like thatcher preached and look where it took us.
just because the label on the tin has got labour party written on it doesnt mean they were carrying out socialist policies.
thatcherism took us to the brink of collapse and needed good old socialism to rescue it.

and when you said that someone in the city was doing just as important a job as a manual labourer you missed my point, the fella in the city of london is probably doing a far more important job than the labourer, my point is all that talk of if you work hard you get your rewards is a load of $h1te, people slog their guts out for a pittance in this country. working hard doesnt mean you will get rich, far from it.

Every successful country in the world is a capitalist based economy. The free market, privatisation and deregulation have been proven over and over again to succeed. Why do you think labour did not reverse the changes introduced by thatcher? Because the country was benefitting from it.

Every socialist/communist economy in the world has failed, even china is leaving that model as it grows.

Socialism is a thing of the past and will never return to these shores thankfully. Socialism bankrupts economies part,y because the national industries within them run at a loss. If Thatcher didn't make this change then another government would have, there is no question.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:44 am

dundreamin » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:25 am wrote:Labour sold the country down the river WTF are you on? Thatcher privatized everything and all her cronies here and abroad got there snouts in the trough. She sold off council houses without replacing them causing untold homelessness. She went to war to secure a election. She ran down the manafacturing base from which this country will NEVER recover. She had Jimmy Saville in her home every new year because she had to cover up the peadophille ring which most of the cabinet and royal family have/are involved in. Shall I go on?? And I have,nt evev mentioned hillsbrough yet


1. Can you prove that she went to war just to win an election or was it to liberate a British Colony that had been invaded by a foreign force ?

2. Again can you prove that she covered up a peadophille ring ? And also prove Royal Family and "most" of her cabinet were involved ?

Some very serious allegations you are posting there.

The manufacturing base in this country was dying before she arrived - they were all running at massive loses whilst Union bosses demanded pay rises.
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:09 am

Reg » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:27 pm wrote:The world will mourn, only a  few will refuse to acknowledge the role she played in transforming a decaying post war economy into the modern era. So be it, she would accept that.

Rest in peace.


Do crawl out of her arse Reg ,its going to be dark where that husk is being interred,and the only thing that will be
inhabiting that particular orifice is worms and soil.............................. and apparently you .
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:16 am

May I suggest that those that have this compulsion to eulogise about this positively treacherous woman find a non Liverpool site
to do so ,because frankly I find it fucking offensive.

Or better still close the thread before we all make our now discernible differences clearly visible.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:35 am

Thatcher divided the country - she divides opinion , she wasnt evil for everyone.

Not many are currently being "positive" about her as you say.

People aren't mourning here - they are just not celebrating an 87 year old lady dying.
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Postby Kenny Kan » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:59 am

RED BEERGOGGLES » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:16 am wrote:May I suggest that those that have this compulsion to eulogise about this positively treacherous woman find a non Liverpool site
to do so ,because frankly I find it fucking offensive.

Or better still close the thread before we all make our now discernible differences clearly visible.



I don't think you'll find 'that' many around here are sympathising with her plight. While we may not appear to be the militant-Marxist-Reds showing our solidarity in celebrating death like many are, you'll not find me lambasting your party - your free to do so (as I understand why), so at least show a little courtesy to those who aren't exactly forth coming about celebrating her death.
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Postby supersub » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:58 pm

THERE'S A GREAT BIG BEAUTIFUL TOMORROW SHINING AT THE END OF EVERY DAY.
THERE'S A GREAT BIG BEAUTIFUL TOMORROW AND TOMORROW IS JUST A DREAM AWAY.
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:57 pm

Another great article in todays times. Best read for the objective ones willing to understand the situation

The selfish Left, not Thatcher, divided us
Daniel Finkelstein

In the 20 years before her time in office, the nation endured far more conflict than in the 20 years after it

In the dying days of the Heath administration, Sir William Armstrong, the head of the Civil Service and the Prime Minister’s closest adviser, lay on the floor of the waiting room in 10 Downing Street, waving his arms wildly and babbling about Armageddon.

Sir William was using the room because he thought it the one place that wasn’t bugged. He was, said a witness, talking in a way that was “really quite mad”. A few days later he was sent for enforced rest at Lord Rothschild’s villa in Barbados.

In the months leading up to Sir William’s breakdown, the miners had begun their campaign for a 35 per cent pay increase on top of the large settlement that they had won only two years earlier, in defiance of the Government’s pay policy and despite special concessions offered only to them.

The Prime Minister had announced that industry would be confined to a three-day working week in order to conserve energy. The miners’ response was to go on strike.
Yesterday’s coverage of the death of Margaret Thatcher contained a great deal of comment about how divisive she was. It is obviously ridiculous to respond to someone saying “I found her divisive” by saying “well, I didn’t”. And in any case, it’s not as if I can’t see what they are driving at.

In my personal encounters, I found her formidable, impressive but hard to engage with. She would argue with some minor detail of what you had said until you had almost forgotten the point you were originally trying to make. And as I worked for John Major, and still feel personally and politically warm towards him, I thought I might say on his behalf (without asking him and in order that he need not say it) that her behaviour towards her successor was sub-optimal.

So I appreciate that she could be difficult and her way of approaching a political argument could scarcely be more different from mine. But the idea that the fault for the great division in British politics in the 1980s lay with her? No. Sorry, but no. Or perhaps that should be no, no, no.

By the time she became Prime Minister, the government of Britain had begun to crack under the strain. Sir William’s breakdown is part historical event, part metaphor.
Margaret Thatcher’s promise on the doorstep of No 10 — “where there is discord, may we bring harmony” — was last night being intercut on the television news with footage of the miners’ strike of 1984 to suggest that the opposite occurred. But this ignores the reason why she used these words. She made the promise — the words seemed the right ones to use — because when she took office Britain was already divided; there was already discord.

Inflationary economic policy, designed to produce full employment, had handed the trade unions great power. Government needed them in order to try to control prices. And the behaviour of the Left, granted this power, was unconscionable. They made demand after demand, becoming increasingly difficult to deal with. The results were strikes, demonstrations, crises and hyper-inflation.

Since the time of Harold Macmillan — with the exception of a short, but unsuccessful burst of activity by Ted Heath — governments had sought to achieve harmony by conciliating the unions. But this had been a miserable failure.

Margaret Thatcher tried to end discord by defeating those causing it. She ended inflationary finance, ceased conciliation, and then waited until the unions, led into battle by Arthur Scargill’s miners, had over-reached themselves and were defeated. Many people felt, and still feel, a burning anger at this but I argue that it worked. In the 20 years after Mrs Thatcher, Britain was less discordant and more harmonious than in the 20 years before her.

The politics of the Thatcher years were divisive but they couldn’t be anything else. The Left wanted policies that were simply impractical and unacceptable. They could
not be conceded, no matter how angry it made the unions that their demands were denied.

I was a member of the centrist Social Democratic Party during the miners’ strike and argued then, as I do now, that the Government might have done more to help those in pit villages find alternative work. But this was not what the fight was about, nor what the miners asked for. They argued that there was no such thing as an uneconomic pit and that we should use deep-mined British coal, however difficult or expensive to extract.

Such a demand was impossible to yield to. Margaret Thatcher was not being divisive by refusing to yield to it. Yesterday Dave Hopper, general secretary of the Durham Miners’ Association, said that the former Prime Minister’s death on his birthday made it “one of the best birthdays I have ever had”.

What sort of human being says something like that? The sort she was right to resist and we should be pleased was defeated. And the sort who takes all the blame for the brave miners he took down with him.

On the front page of The Guardian yesterday Mrs Thatcher was accused of sending “Bobby Sands to an Irish hero’s grave without a blink”. But Sands was not a hero and she didn’t send him to his grave. He starved himself to death. The Government rightly didn’t give in to his demands to be considered a political prisoner with extraordinary privileges, and he starved himself to death.

Was this a dreadful, tragic, chilling moment? Yes. But does it mean that it was Mrs Thatcher who divided politics? Only if one prefers the alternative, which was to surrender to something that should not be surrendered to. Bobby Sands divided politics.

Is this all just history? A few days ago, the MP Tom Watson published (I promise you that he did) the following on Twitter: “Bad man @george_osborne: Booooooooo Boooooooo Booooooooo #booGideon.” Mr Watson is 46 years old. And a member of the Shadow Cabinet.

The Left’s approach to the fiscal crisis has been inarticulate rage of this sort coupled with hyperbole and menace and threats of general strikes. Every reduction in spending has been resisted, the attacks invariably intemperate. And the thrust of the rhetoric, without irony, is that by cutting unaffordable welfare, and arguing for those cuts, it is Mr Osborne who is being divisive, bringing discord where there was harmony.

But the lesson of the Thatcher years is that what broke the harmony is borrowing more than we can afford, that what causes discord is unreasonably demanding that welfare be left untouched when it cannot conceivably be left untouched, and that what seems in the short run to be divisive may, in the long run, be the only way of restoring social stability.
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:33 pm

Kenny Kan » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:59 am wrote:
RED BEERGOGGLES » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:16 am wrote:May I suggest that those that have this compulsion to eulogise about this positively treacherous woman find a non Liverpool site
to do so ,because frankly I find it fucking offensive.

Or better still close the thread before we all make our now discernible differences clearly visible.



I don't think you'll find 'that' many around here are sympathising with her plight. While we may not appear to be the militant-Marxist-Reds showing our solidarity in celebrating death like many are, you'll not find me lambasting your party - your free to do so (as I understand why), so at least show a little courtesy to those who aren't exactly forth coming about celebrating her death.


I have no issue with those not willing to join in the festivities ,I just cant abide these overbearing cuntz who insist on extolling her
supposed virtues. I find it  comparative with someone attempting to laud a certain paper or Kelvin McKenzie.

If you find umbrage with that mate ,then this forum has slipped considerably in the same direction as 'run of the mill'
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Postby Kenny Kan » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:43 pm

Not at all RBG, I don't take umbrage with that. I understand your view. Fairy play.
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