Liverpool FC Forum

[JoeTerp]

Well now the point is being exagerated.  Obviously if the only change that is made in the system is stoping giving out stuff to people, than obviously that isn't going to help any. But if you lowered taxes to zero, there would be a lot more money out in the market for people to earn, and then they would buy stuff with that money and then the people that they bought stuff from would start making money and would hire more people and so on.  And some people like to just give their money and/or time away helping the less fortunate that get left behind.

[account deleted by request]

Lower the tax rate to zero and you would have even more people out of work. 1000'S  of tax lawyers and advisors, all the civil service, all the health service (including Judge ), all the armed forces, Police forces, teachers, etc etc

But at least all the scumbags would be happy, they could rob who they wanted and not have to worry about getting caught (no police) and if they did get caught we would have no place to put them ( no courts or prisons) and how would you ever find work for M.P.'s most of whom have never done a days work in their lives.

[Emerald Red]

Lower the tax rate to zero and you would have even more people out of work. 1000'S  of tax lawyers and advisors, all the civil service, all the health service (including Judge ), all the armed forces, Police forces, teachers, etc etc

But at least all the scumbags would be happy, they could rob who they wanted and not have to worry about getting caught (no police) and if they did get caught we would have no place to put them ( no courts or prisons) and how would you ever find work for M.P.'s most of whom have never done a days work in their lives.

You're a very astute fella, S@int. Well put.

[JoeTerp]

a government's revenue consists of more than just sales and income tax.  And you don't think that people would pay for services with the money they would be saving from not paying taxes

If the police force were such a detterent then why is there still crime?  and the police cannot be everywhere to protect you either, so it really wouldn't be much different. If people owned things of value they would get them insured and or higher guards if they really felt they were in that great of danger, or buy and carry a gun.

[andy_g]

anybody been to look around williamson's tunnels? he 'solved' the problem of thousands of unemployed and desperate soldiers returning from the crimean by paying them to dig a series of tunnels under liverpool. he was a philanthropist but was troubled by the idea of giving people money for doing nothing.

i'm sure his ideas and enthusiasm could be brought up to date in the face of growing unemployment, people feeling a lack of purpose in their lives and the impending global crisis. i'm thinking along the lines of larger urban community farms. get people working and growing food in the allotments, in the parks and in any green space that can be put to good use. it would be productive and go towards solving the problem of buying food for those that are really on the breadline.

plus, i'd really like to see cows and goats in sefton park...

[Emerald Red]

If the police force were such a detterent then why is there still crime?

What's that saying? Crime doesn't pay? There's another saying, "If crime didn't pay, there'd be very few criminals."

It'd be interesting to see a society without any police or law.

[account deleted by request]

anybody been to look around williamson's tunnels? he 'solved' the problem of thousands of unemployed and desperate soldiers returning from the crimean by paying them to dig a series of tunnels under liverpool. he was a philanthropist but was troubled by the idea of giving people money for doing nothing.

i'm sure his ideas and enthusiasm could be brought up to date in the face of growing unemployment, people feeling a lack of purpose in their lives and the impending global crisis. i'm thinking along the lines of larger urban community farms. get people working and growing food in the allotments, in the parks and in any green space that can be put to good use. it would be productive and go towards solving the problem of buying food for those that are really on the breadline.

plus, i'd really like to see cows and goats in sefton park...

Adolph Hitler did something similar in Germany in the 30's with the autobans etc Andy. He was also preparing for war, but the theory is sound enough. Get the people working and spending money and it creates more jobs which enables the people to work and spend money. 

Adolph liked animals as well mate ..... any relation ?

[JoeTerp]

If the police force were such a detterent then why is there still crime?

What's that saying? Crime doesn't pay? There's another saying, "If crime didn't pay, there'd be very few criminals."

It'd be interesting to see a society without any police or law.

what I am saying is the people that are going to steal are going to steal, whether or not the police is there or not. If all of a sudden there was no police, I don't think I would take up bank robbing, and I am sure millions of other would feel the same.  One consequence is that it might put people on a higher alert because the KNOW that there isn't a police force out there to help them.

But in an Anarcho-Capitalist society, its very likely that lots of people would pay for private defense/security services  that would serve very similar purposes to todays police/fire/ambulance service.  Only these private companies would have to run themselves in a profitable manner, and likely in competition with other similar services, and as such would be held to a higher standard.

[dawson99]

If there are too many people not enough jobs, shouldn't we stop people from having so many kids? Maybe if they weren't home fukking non stop they could find the time look harder for a job.

[GYBS]

How about the military mate ? you got plenty of skills and experience to get yourself a very good job in the forces and get a very decent wage and even more expierince plus more qualifications in IT or Admin .

[account deleted by request]

If the police force were such a detterent then why is there still crime?

What's that saying? Crime doesn't pay? There's another saying, "If crime didn't pay, there'd be very few criminals."

It'd be interesting to see a society without any police or law.

what I am saying is the people that are going to steal are going to steal, whether or not the police is there or not. If all of a sudden there was no police, I don't think I would take up bank robbing, and I am sure millions of other would feel the same.  One consequence is that it might put people on a higher alert because the KNOW that there isn't a police force out there to help them.

But in an Anarcho-Capitalist society, its very likely that lots of people would pay for private defense/security services  that would serve very similar purposes to todays police/fire/ambulance service.  Only these private companies would have to run themselves in a profitable manner, and likely in competition with other similar services, and as such would be held to a higher standard.

Police forces were started by the rich to defend what they had. The poor had no need of a police force..... they had nothing. If you started private security firms we would soon have a similar situation. Only the people who had enough to make it worth their while would pay, the rest would just fight to protect their own, and the weak would go to the wall.

Many people don't rob and steal because the risk of being caught is not worth it, if there is little or no risk ........! As can be seen by the financial markets , when there is little or no risk of being caught you get people involved in $50billion frauds 

Maybe we have a different culture over here but the likelyhood is that most people would opt not to pay and just hope for the best, similar to eye tests. When we had free eye tests most people had regular eye tests, they only put a fee of £10 (I think) on eye tests and now hardly anyone bothers. (Which can be rather worrying when they are driving)

[JoeTerp]

If the police force were such a detterent then why is there still crime?

What's that saying? Crime doesn't pay? There's another saying, "If crime didn't pay, there'd be very few criminals."

It'd be interesting to see a society without any police or law.

what I am saying is the people that are going to steal are going to steal, whether or not the police is there or not. If all of a sudden there was no police, I don't think I would take up bank robbing, and I am sure millions of other would feel the same.  One consequence is that it might put people on a higher alert because the KNOW that there isn't a police force out there to help them.

But in an Anarcho-Capitalist society, its very likely that lots of people would pay for private defense/security services  that would serve very similar purposes to todays police/fire/ambulance service.  Only these private companies would have to run themselves in a profitable manner, and likely in competition with other similar services, and as such would be held to a higher standard.

Police forces were started by the rich to defend what they had. The poor had no need of a police force..... they had nothing. If you started private security firms we would soon have a similar situation. Only the people who had enough to make it worth their while would pay, the rest would just fight to protect their own, and the weak would go to the wall.

Many people don't rob and steal because the risk of being caught is not worth it, if there is little or no risk ........! As can be seen by the financial markets , when there is little or no risk of being caught you get people involved in $50billion frauds 

Maybe we have a different culture over here but the likelyhood is that most people would opt not to pay and just hope for the best, similar to eye tests. When we had free eye tests most people had regular eye tests, they only put a fee of £10 (I think) on eye tests and now hardly anyone bothers. (Which can be rather worrying when they are driving)

not all private defenses have to be expensive.

It can be as simple as a well organized neighborhood watch.

low income housing high rise buildings could protect its tennants with just 1 or 2 profesional or semi profesional guards and a "neighborhood milita" and with the cost spread across the entire high rise building and built into the rent/ housing contract, it would end up adding little to the monthly rent and would equal out if not put more money into the pockets of the renters from the money they save on taxes.

[dawson99]

If the police force were such a detterent then why is there still crime?

What's that saying? Crime doesn't pay? There's another saying, "If crime didn't pay, there'd be very few criminals."

It'd be interesting to see a society without any police or law.

what I am saying is the people that are going to steal are going to steal, whether or not the police is there or not. If all of a sudden there was no police, I don't think I would take up bank robbing, and I am sure millions of other would feel the same.  One consequence is that it might put people on a higher alert because the KNOW that there isn't a police force out there to help them.

But in an Anarcho-Capitalist society, its very likely that lots of people would pay for private defense/security services  that would serve very similar purposes to todays police/fire/ambulance service.  Only these private companies would have to run themselves in a profitable manner, and likely in competition with other similar services, and as such would be held to a higher standard.

Police forces were started by the rich to defend what they had. The poor had no need of a police force..... they had nothing. If you started private security firms we would soon have a similar situation. Only the people who had enough to make it worth their while would pay, the rest would just fight to protect their own, and the weak would go to the wall.

Many people don't rob and steal because the risk of being caught is not worth it, if there is little or no risk ........! As can be seen by the financial markets , when there is little or no risk of being caught you get people involved in $50billion frauds 

Maybe we have a different culture over here but the likelyhood is that most people would opt not to pay and just hope for the best, similar to eye tests. When we had free eye tests most people had regular eye tests, they only put a fee of £10 (I think) on eye tests and now hardly anyone bothers. (Which can be rather worrying when they are driving)

not all private defenses have to be expensive.

It can be as simple as a well organized neighborhood watch.

low income housing high rise buildings could protect its tennants with just 1 or 2 profesional or semi profesional guards and a "neighborhood milita" and with the cost spread across the entire high rise building and built into the rent/ housing contract, it would end up adding little to the monthly rent and would equal out if not put more money into the pockets of the renters from the money they save on taxes.

Yeah IO saw Louis Theroux with a group who do that in Johannesberg last week, seemed to work well enough for them having private contractors as guards
(It really didn't work, people died)

[JoeTerp]

If someone wants to kill you badly enough, there isn't much anybody can do about it (private bodygaurds or regular police)

[account deleted by request]

Yeah but theres no reason to encourage them, but it probably wouldn't make much difference anyway, as soon as anyone went on a motorway they would probably be killed by all the idiots going at 150mph the wrong way!