Liverpool FC Forum

[zarababe]

seems to me that enoch was right with his comments, i dont see any biggotry in them. seems a shame that you both shoot down architect for having a point of view but expect him to accept your point of view. its a disgrace that you accuse him of trawling 'right wing websites', do you assume that architect is not intelligent enough to form his own opinion on something. are you certain he is 'right wing' or are you just jumping down someones throat because his views dont match your views?
enoch made his speech in the 60's when times were very different, but if you look at the 'rivers of blood' speech i dont think he was far wrong.  so accuse me now of racism and bigottry.

seems a shame that anyone who expresses an opinion is labelled a racist or a biggot. its good that someone can have a view and stick to it in the face of namby pamby do gooders cricising them and calling them names. most people i know have the same views but have a fear of voicing them now because they dont want to be labled by people who can only see one point of view also.

zara stick to your 'phwoar' threads, at least there you seem to have a point to make rather than the  mindless drive you come out with when you try to act educated.

vete a la mierda, gilipollas .. 

[woof woof !]

.. what f*uckin world do you live in .. Powell's speech.. for a biggot.. and which you call an 'alternative nationalist' viewpoint recognised the tensions that were simmering in communities such as his own in Wolverhampton, where communities were divided and not integrated.. the huge tension in Burnely and Oldham, which subsequently lead to the governments community cohesion and sustainable communities agenda.. reflected the break down in integration of communities and instead therein existed suspicious and divided communities.

Not sure if i understand your point here Zbabe . are you calling Powell a bigot because he "recognised the tensions that were simmering" between the indiginous population and the rapidly swelling immigrant population . ?

As for your reference to "the break down in intergration of communities " what's your take on this ? Should a soveriegn nation of people with a proud history vacate their way of life and adjust their values and traditions to accomodate a wave of what for most English people back in the 60's were foreigners , OR should the onus be on the newly arrived prospective citizens to adopt the "when in rome do as the romans do " path to intergration ? .

Speaking as a white christian male who grew up in this country duriing the 50's and early 60's I can tell you that the impact of foreign cultue upon british society was enormous and generally not welcomed .Different cultures seemed to hold different values  and immediately the seeds of distrust and suspicion were sown .
Many immigrants to this country seemed happy to retreat into a ghetto of their own ,setting up little New Delhi's , Karachi's or Kingston Jamaicas'.Is it any wonder that the native anglo population began to feel (rightly or wrongly) that area's of their cities and towns were now becoming foreign soil where in many instances they were no longer safe nor welcome ? .

Some commentators describe Enoch Powell as the greatest prime minister the british people never had , his political career was ruined by his " rivers of blood speech ". It may have been politically incorrect but  history has shown that regardless of his motives he wasn't far off the mark in predicting the consequences that mass immigration would have upon the people of this country .


ps I don't mean to dismiss the  positive effects that people of different cultures have had upon british society , but  the average man in the street would be hard pressed to list them .

[Lando_Griffin]

Good post Woof.

[woof woof !]

Cheers Lando , at least someone see's my point .
i'm tired of having to apologise for wanting to hold onto my cultural heritage and being called a racist in the process.

It sometimes seems that only white christian people can be found guilty of racist or religious discrimination, and yet some years ago when i visited Saudi Arabia I was forbidden by the authorities to visit the holy city of Mecca ,why ? Because I wasn't Muslim ! .
Any Muslim members of our forum care to comment on this ?

[76-1115222408]

Different cultures seemed to hold different values  and immediately the seeds of distrust and suspicion were sown .


Many immigrants to this country seemed happy to retreat into a ghetto of their own ,setting up little New Delhi's , Karachi's or Kingston Jamaicas'.

Firts point - Well obviously 'different' cultures would hold 'different values', what else do you expect??  The whole world to be the same?? 
And WHY did this cause 'distrust' and 'suspicion', just because they were different??  That says it all really IMO, distrusting someone because they are 'different' and have 'different' values, how STUPID!!!


Second Point - It is a natural human trait to seek out and find people of their 'own kind' when in unfamiliar surroundings or environments. It is just a natural way of life.
The same can be seen from 'Britons' that move abroad to say Spain for example and the Costas, there are many that all live close together in the same region, as they are able to communicate and also create a 'community' amongst themselves that they feel familiar and safe with!
So British people do the exact same thing when 'emigrating' to a new country. Of course not all do this, and the same can be said for people that come here too!!!

[woof woof !]

I've lived in in spain,south africa ,thailand and viet nam .Apart from the local expat pub i have never encountered anything that that remotely resembles an "English ghetto " .

Talk to me when your mum buys you some long pants .

[JBG]

Sieg heil.

[yckatbjywtbiastkamb]

.. what f*uckin world do you live in .. Powell's speech.. for a biggot.. and which you call an 'alternative nationalist' viewpoint recognised the tensions that were simmering in communities such as his own in Wolverhampton, where communities were divided and not integrated.. the huge tension in Burnely and Oldham, which subsequently lead to the governments community cohesion and sustainable communities agenda.. reflected the break down in integration of communities and instead therein existed suspicious and divided communities.

Not sure if i understand your point here Zbabe . are you calling Powell a bigot because he "recognised the tensions that were simmering" between the indiginous population and the rapidly swelling immigrant population . ?

As for your reference to "the break down in intergration of communities " what's your take on this ? Should a soveriegn nation of people with a proud history vacate their way of life and adjust their values and traditions to accomodate a wave of what for most English people back in the 60's were foreigners , OR should the onus be on the newly arrived prospective citizens to adopt the "when in rome do as the romans do " path to intergration ? .

Speaking as a white christian male who grew up in this country duriing the 50's and early 60's I can tell you that the impact of foreign cultue upon british society was enormous and generally not welcomed .Different cultures seemed to hold different values  and immediately the seeds of distrust and suspicion were sown .
Many immigrants to this country seemed happy to retreat into a ghetto of their own ,setting up little New Delhi's , Karachi's or Kingston Jamaicas'.Is it any wonder that the native anglo population began to feel (rightly or wrongly) that area's of their cities and towns were now becoming foreign soil where in many instances they were no longer safe nor welcome ? .

Some commentators describe Enoch Powell as the greatest prime minister the british people never had , his political career was ruined by his " rivers of blood speech ". It may have been politically incorrect but  history has shown that regardless of his motives he wasn't far off the mark in predicting the consequences that mass immigration would have upon the people of this country .


ps I don't mean to dismiss the  positive effects that people of different cultures have had upon british society , but  the average man in the street would be hard pressed to list them .

i think its natural for foreigners who arrive in numbers to a foreign country to stick together, i dont think its got anything to do with any particular race or creed.
look at the large irish community around scotland road, the chinese community in chinatown and the old little italy around gerrard gardens near the city centre. and thats just a relatively small place like liverpool. massive connurbations like new york and los angeles are full of these types of foreign communities.
dont forget the british were not the best examples of a nation repecting the when in rome syndrome, every country we went to ( i`ll use that term rather than invading) we tried to change them into a mirror image of our society, just look at the gentlemens clubs in places like india. and dont forget we (big business that is, king cotton etc) invited most of the immigrants here with profit the main motive, they didnt invite us to their country`s, we just tended to turn up on their coast with a couple of divisions of gordon highlanders and the 51st foot in tow.

[76-1115222408]

I've lived in in spain,south africa ,thailand and viet nam .Apart from the local expat pub i have never encountered anything that that remotely resembles an "English ghetto " .

Talk to me when your mum buys you some long pants .

So I suppose you never looked for ex-pats that you could relate to and talk about home or anything??

I didnt say it would be an 'english ghetto', bit it seems to me that the point you are making is that 'others' live in Ghettos made by themselves whereas English people would never create such a thing.
If you truly believe that people dont do this when settling in another country, then you are sadly mistaken......These are clearly evident in parts of Spain and France.
If there is an ex-pat pub, what would be the need for one, if there wasnt enough ex-pats to keep it self sufficient??

So would you consider English people that live in Spain as being a minority or not??

If they are, and they live in the same area, therefore they live in a ghetto. I think you seem to relate the word ghetto with the words poverty, dirty etc; all it means is people of a minority group living in the same area. And I am sorry you CANNOT dispute that this is the case in parts of Spain, especially the Costas (as stated in prevous post!).

'Talk to me when your mum buys you some long pants'

How long did it take you to think that up??
Why do people always have to add something like that at the end??

Says a lot about a person that does!!!!

[76-1115222408]

.. what f*uckin world do you live in .. Powell's speech.. for a biggot.. and which you call an 'alternative nationalist' viewpoint recognised the tensions that were simmering in communities such as his own in Wolverhampton, where communities were divided and not integrated.. the huge tension in Burnely and Oldham, which subsequently lead to the governments community cohesion and sustainable communities agenda.. reflected the break down in integration of communities and instead therein existed suspicious and divided communities.

Not sure if i understand your point here Zbabe . are you calling Powell a bigot because he "recognised the tensions that were simmering" between the indiginous population and the rapidly swelling immigrant population . ?

As for your reference to "the break down in intergration of communities " what's your take on this ? Should a soveriegn nation of people with a proud history vacate their way of life and adjust their values and traditions to accomodate a wave of what for most English people back in the 60's were foreigners , OR should the onus be on the newly arrived prospective citizens to adopt the "when in rome do as the romans do " path to intergration ? .

Speaking as a white christian male who grew up in this country duriing the 50's and early 60's I can tell you that the impact of foreign cultue upon british society was enormous and generally not welcomed .Different cultures seemed to hold different values  and immediately the seeds of distrust and suspicion were sown .
Many immigrants to this country seemed happy to retreat into a ghetto of their own ,setting up little New Delhi's , Karachi's or Kingston Jamaicas'.Is it any wonder that the native anglo population began to feel (rightly or wrongly) that area's of their cities and towns were now becoming foreign soil where in many instances they were no longer safe nor welcome ? .

Some commentators describe Enoch Powell as the greatest prime minister the british people never had , his political career was ruined by his " rivers of blood speech ". It may have been politically incorrect but  history has shown that regardless of his motives he wasn't far off the mark in predicting the consequences that mass immigration would have upon the people of this country .


ps I don't mean to dismiss the  positive effects that people of different cultures have had upon british society , but  the average man in the street would be hard pressed to list them .

i think its natural for foreigners who arrive in numbers to a foreign country to stick together, i dont think its got anything to do with any particular race or creed.
look at the large irish community around scotland road, the chinese community in chinatown and the old little italy around gerrard gardens near the city centre. and thats just a relatively small place like liverpool. massive connurbations like new york and los angeles are full of these types of foreign communities.
dont forget the british were not the best examples of a nation repecting the when in rome syndrome, every country we went to ( i`ll use that term rather than invading) we tried to change them into a mirror image of our society, just look at the gentlemens clubs in places like india. and dont forget we (big business that is, king cotton etc) invited most of the immigrants here with profit the main motive, they didnt invite us to their country`s, we just tended to turn up on their coast with a couple of divisions of gordon highlanders and the 51st foot in tow.

F.ucking Spot On.......yckatbjywtbiastkamb!!!!

[Woollyback]

Dare I state the obvious and say that racism isn't as bad in this country as it was eg 20 years ago? this latest incident in no way means that suddenly we're living in a country sliding further into racism, so let's keep a sense of perspective

I would say that the only non-white community in the UK who are likely to continue to receive racist treatment are muslims, largely due to the inability of the muslim community to integrate with the rest of british society to the extent that for example the black community has managed

Ignorance breeds contempt, and insularism breeds ignorance in outsiders

[yckatbjywtbiastkamb]

I've lived in in spain,south africa ,thailand and viet nam .Apart from the local expat pub i have never encountered anything that that remotely resembles an "English ghetto " .

Talk to me when your mum buys you some long pants .

you didnt have to go all that way to find an english ghetto mate, i grew up in one

[andy_g]

a point that is missed by many, and yckatmby touched on, is that the historical, religious and cultural make up of many countries is and always has been in flux. us brits are a combination of french, german and dutch from a long long time back and a lot more now. 'pure blooded' englishmen (to a lesser degree the scots or welsh) are as rare as rocking horse sh.ite in this day and age. who are we too say that this constant flux must now stop and be accepted as the culture that must be protected.

it is also hypocritical in the extreme to cry about the way a tiny minority of these immigrants express anger about the way they are treated or represented in this country when we willy nilly go f.ucking with other cultures on a daily basis, economically, culturally, religiously etc etc.

i also object to people who treat liberalism as a guardian reading, sandal wearing, goody goody stereotype. its as inaccurate as the bigot stereotype of many people with more conservative or right wing views. politics is a far more complex and subtle thing like that. personally i think liberalism is a very challenging path to follow and actually has to confront dealing with difficult issues in a mutually beneficial way instead of being plain reactionary.

[76-1115222408]

Dare I state the obvious and say that racism isn't as bad in this country as it was eg 20 years ago? this latest incident in no way means that suddenly we're living in a country sliding further into racism, so let's keep a sense of perspective

Totally agree Wooly, for me personally, it is just the sheer extremity of this attack, that has sort of taken me aback thats all. I mean:

'An axe embedded in his skull'........that is a bit excessive to say the f.ucking least!!!

But yes times are (on the whole) good now, especially in the LARGER cities.
But we ALL know there are MANY that still harbour such views, but are able to keep them at home and know they can no longer 'just' say things like they used to in the 'good 'ole days'. 
TBH that doesnt bother me, as it is the problem of those ignorant people, not me!!!

[76-1115222408]

a point that is missed by many, and yckatmby touched on, is that the historical, religious and cultural make up of many countries is and always has been in flux. us brits are a combination of french, german and dutch from a long long time back and a lot more now. 'pure blooded' englishmen (to a lesser degree the scots or welsh) are as rare as rocking horse sh.ite in this day and age. who are we too say that this constant flux must now stop and be accepted as the culture that must be protected.

it is also hypocritical in the extreme to cry about the way a tiny minority of these immigrants express anger about the way they are treated or represented in this country when we willy nilly go f.ucking with other cultures on a daily basis, economically, culturally, religiously etc etc.

i also object to people who treat liberalism as a guardian reading, sandal wearing, goody goody stereotype. its as inaccurate as the bigot stereotype of many people with more conservative or right wing views. politics is a far more complex and subtle thing like that. personally i think liberalism is a very challenging path to follow and actually has to confront dealing with difficult issues in a mutually beneficial way instead of being plain reactionary.

Believe me Andy, I didnt forget about those historic events of the past, or the lack of 'real' englishmen, and the heritage of people in this country, but thought people would go off on one etc;

It is nice to see people with such views, it makes me feel warmer inside!!!!