Liverpool FC Forum

[112-1077774096]

If you havent got a gun in the first place you cant use it

Or protect yourself from someone who does......

what he is aying is that if nobody has guns there would be no need to protect yoiurself against a gunman

[The Canadian Red Army]

Guns do not kill people!

Read that again.

Guns do not kill people!!  Crazy f@cking people kill people.

Thats what Charlton Heston says all the time.

[JoeTerp]

US journo writing bout our topic (euros view of US gun law)

[66-1120597113]

Joe and Jeff....people are not amazed that Americans get guns so easily.Its more a fact of how can someone that is obviously mentally ill get hold of one by doing nothing more than producing a couple of forms of photographic ID,filling out a form,paying and saying thankyou very much sir!

The campus killer had been in a mental home for treatment,was on a serious amount of anti depressants,he had also been highlighted to police for stalking women...One of his teachers had said that she found him so disturbing and creepy that she would quit her job if he was not removed from her class!

HELLO??  So how can any American say that this is OK?This man was clearly mad but repeatedly slipped through the net and nothing was done!
FFS common sense would tell any society that someone that had been in an asylum in the past should not be allowed to purchase a firearm...

I find it hard to believe that there is no way of checking out peoples mental health before selling them a gun...surely it would be as easy as setting up a database where the seller can type in someones details to a computer to see if they are permitted to have a gun??

Its OK defending your country in this issue because thats what patriots do,i can understand that!
But America is wrong and the gun laws are way to relaxed its hard to believe but we have to appreciate also that it is a difference in cultures although it seems insane to us!

Im not saying that the USA should do away with guns altogether,that will never happen.
What i am saying though is that the rules about giving them freely to anyone without proper checks is wrong.

Ticking a box on a form that states you have not had any mental illness,then signing at the bottom is not even an attempt at seperating the sound and stable from the deranged and disturbed.

Its all well and good America grieving and feeling sorry for herself....so long as America keeps lax laws on guns she will have to shoulder some of the blame for the next Columbine or VT as far as im concerned!

[JoeTerp]

Joe and Jeff....people are not amazed that Americans get guns so easily.Its more a fact of how can someone that is obviously mentally ill get hold of one by doing nothing more than producing a couple of forms of photographic ID,filling out a form,paying and saying thankyou very much sir!

The campus killer had been in a mental home for treatment,was on a serious amount of anti depressants,he had also been highlighted to police for stalking women...One of his teachers had said that she found him so disturbing and creepy that she would quit her job if he was not removed from her class!

HELLO??  So how can any American say that this is OK?This man was clearly mad but repeatedly slipped through the net and nothing was done!
FFS common sense would tell any society that someone that had been in an asylum in the past should not be allowed to purchase a firearm...

I find it hard to believe that there is no way of checking out peoples mental health before selling them a gun...surely it would be as easy as setting up a database where the seller can type in someones details to a computer to see if they are permitted to have a gun??

Its OK defending your country in this issue because thats what patriots do,i can understand that!
But America is wrong and the gun laws are way to relaxed its hard to believe but we have to appreciate also that it is a difference in cultures although it seems insane to us!

Im not saying that the USA should do away with guns altogether,that will never happen.
What i am saying though is that the rules about giving them freely to anyone without proper checks is wrong.

Ticking a box on a form that states you have not had any mental illness,then signing at the bottom is not even an attempt at seperating the sound and stable from the deranged and disturbed.

Its all well and good America grieving and feeling sorry for herself....so long as America keeps lax laws on guns she will have to shoulder some of the blame for the next Columbine or VT as far as im concerned!

I completely agree, I think almost everyone in America feels the same way, and probably thought that background checks already covered mental health.  I am sure there  are going to be some policy changes coming soon in a lot of states gun laws concerning linking up several different databases for background checks.  One thing I did hear on the news was that if one of the girls had filed a  restraining order against the shooter instead of  just complaining that he was annoying and stalking her, then he wouldnt have been able to buy the weapons.

[bunglemark2]

Good post Bazz...Incoherent and dated voicing-offs from the likes of Charlton Heston and others, and the political influence of the gun lobby, along with the weak-willed presidents in the past 20 years have conspired to influence the spate of gun shootings in recent years. Nobody is prepared to take a stance against them. So called militia groups armed to the teeth with enough firepower to take out a small army roaming free in Vermont....where the hell does it all stop ?
How can a man diagnosed with a mental illness go and buy a gun ?
Sheesh - US gun policy sucks. The right to bear ams ? Give me a break....

[metalhead]

How will the killer's family feel right now? especially his sister whose studying in another university (forgot which), I mean she is going to have a really bad time!

metal head, his sister is a graduate of Princeton.  She is no longer in college.

Suprisingly, she works for the US state dept. doing Iraqi reconstruction work, that not being the suprising part, the fact she is a contractor working for McNeil technologies, the company I started working for when I graduated college.

Really, I couldn't even imagine making that up.

oh!! alright, I still feel for the guy's family. They must be really shocked.

[jeffiroquai]

Joe and Jeff....people are not amazed that Americans get guns so easily.Its more a fact of how can someone that is obviously mentally ill get hold of one by doing nothing more than producing a couple of forms of photographic ID,filling out a form,paying and saying thankyou very much sir!

The campus killer had been in a mental home for treatment,was on a serious amount of anti depressants,he had also been highlighted to police for stalking women...One of his teachers had said that she found him so disturbing and creepy that she would quit her job if he was not removed from her class!

HELLO??  So how can any American say that this is OK?This man was clearly mad but repeatedly slipped through the net and nothing was done!
FFS common sense would tell any society that someone that had been in an asylum in the past should not be allowed to purchase a firearm...

I find it hard to believe that there is no way of checking out peoples mental health before selling them a gun...surely it would be as easy as setting up a database where the seller can type in someones details to a computer to see if they are permitted to have a gun??

Its OK defending your country in this issue because thats what patriots do,i can understand that!
But America is wrong and the gun laws are way to relaxed its hard to believe but we have to appreciate also that it is a difference in cultures although it seems insane to us!

Im not saying that the USA should do away with guns altogether,that will never happen.
What i am saying though is that the rules about giving them freely to anyone without proper checks is wrong.

Ticking a box on a form that states you have not had any mental illness,then signing at the bottom is not even an attempt at seperating the sound and stable from the deranged and disturbed.

Its all well and good America grieving and feeling sorry for herself....so long as America keeps lax laws on guns she will have to shoulder some of the blame for the next Columbine or VT as far as im concerned!

Barry,

You make great points.  There are databases, both local and national, that track the information you are referring to.  It seems that the state, virginia, did not properly report the court/counseling information, so it did not show up.

Interesting point about defending the US as a patriot.  I am not doing so.  I am merely explaining my  right as a US citizen.  If find multitudes of things my country does, that are indefensible (i.e. Iraq, calling football soccer....etc). 

I agree there are things that could be improved in the system.  All of you folks in Europe surely could speak to this.  Once a government gets involved in these kind of programs, they f@ck them up.

[kewp80]

I sitting here reading some of this and I see: "I dont care" and "they deserved it." I mean cmon! Dont you have any respect for the family and friends who lost their loved ones? Yes I know we have gun control issues here, but still does that mean that 32 innocent people deserved to die? WTF? You look before the 90s and you see that school shootings and shootings in general didnt happen as much. I dont know what happened to our society to make it happen more, but there definably are bad examples out there for our kids and young adults with violent movies and video games. If you havent seen "Bowling for Columbine" then I suggest you do. Canada has as much gun control freedom as we do, and things like that dont happen there. I dont know what it is, but I do agree that something needs to be done. However, I do not agree that those 32 innocent people "deserved" to die.

[Igor Zidane]

Where in any of the posts in this thread does it say that those students deserved to die. The only critisism is directed towards the American government ,local authorities and constitution. Now i don't know if the USA is still a democracy ,but the UK is . opinions that differ from each other are still allowed here.I have watched bowling for COLUMBINE and all i can say is it shows the USA for what it really is , a crazy rootin tootin country that believes  it's better for there citizens to have the right to carry deadly weapons ,rather than ban the bloody things completely so you can stop killing one another in the name of Liberty. Get real hank.

[metalhead]

I sitting here reading some of this and I see: "I dont care" and "they deserved it." I mean cmon! Dont you have any respect for the family and friends who lost their loved ones? Yes I know we have gun control issues here, but still does that mean that 32 innocent people deserved to die? WTF? You look before the 90s and you see that school shootings and shootings in general didnt happen as much. I dont know what happened to our society to make it happen more, but there definably are bad examples out there for our kids and young adults with violent movies and video games. If you havent seen "Bowling for Columbine" then I suggest you do. Canada has as much gun control freedom as we do, and things like that dont happen there. I dont know what it is, but I do agree that something needs to be done. However, I do not agree that those 32 innocent people "deserved" to die.

mate, no one said they deserved to die! NO ONE! or you on something?

I also watched bowling for columbine and in my previous post i put it as a prime example in my arguement.

Michael Moore is fantastic

[kewp80]

There are a lot of lunatic yanks and people there refuse to give up their right to bear arms so there society deserves all the f**ked up things that happen from them.

Ok, sorry, this is from the other thread about the shooting, and I still over reacted. Sorry about that. Still, just because we have the right to bear arms doesn't mean that our society deserves to have stuff happen like that. We've had the right to bear arms since the beginning of our country, and this just recently has become an issue. It has to be something more than gun control, again look at Canada.

I am also sorry that I didn't read your post, I read the first page and the other thread and got off about what people were saying about my country. Again, I'm sorry I over-reacted. I don't really appreciate the comment about the spineless Yank authorities. I would like to see you run into a building that has just been hit by a plane and is about to collapse.

[metalhead]

There are a lot of lunatic yanks and people there refuse to give up their right to bear arms so there society deserves all the f**ked up things that happen from them.

Ok, sorry, this is from the other thread about the shooting, and I still over reacted. Sorry about that. Still, just because we have the right to bear arms doesn't mean that our society deserves to have stuff happen like that. We've had the right to bear arms since the beginning of our country, and this just recently has become an issue. It has to be something more than gun control, again look at Canada.

I am also sorry that I didn't read your post, I read the first page and the other thread and got off about what people were saying about my country. Again, I'm sorry I over-reacted. I don't really appreciate the comment about the spineless Yank authorities. I would like to see you run into a building that has just been hit by a plane and is about to collapse.

I endured a more horrible experience in my country than the twin towers, thats why i feel for you guys.

[112-1077774096]

I don't really appreciate the comment about the spineless Yank authorities. I would like to see you run into a building that has just been hit by a plane and is about to collapse.

dear me, i am sure the coment was aimed at the authority of the american government rather than at the fire dept and police dept who were sadly used as pawns on that day. these were real people doing a real job, but no different to people in these positions in any other country in the world.

the fact is the US government is spineless, too worried about the gun lobbyists and worried about losing their cushy positions to do something about the gun culture in the US. and dont even get me started on the war on iraq whilst at the same time sh1tting yourselves about north korea, the US just looks like bullies on the international stage, only attack the weaklings (and then make a mess of it). its a crazy situation, looking for scapegoats elsewhere, blaming the movies etc. just turn the news on and look at iraq, that should be enough.

this is not an attack on the americans, i have met many and most of the americans i have met are decent, friendly people, however your country is run by an imbecile who lost the first election and was then voted in for a second term who has no idea about right or wrong.

america needs a strong leader to stand up to lobbyists and to tell them straight, sadly now though there are so many guns in circulation the US that its a no win situation

[metalhead]

I don't really appreciate the comment about the spineless Yank authorities. I would like to see you run into a building that has just been hit by a plane and is about to collapse.

dear me, i am sure the coment was aimed at the authority of the american government rather than at the fire dept and police dept who were sadly used as pawns on that day. these were real people doing a real job, but no different to people in these positions in any other country in the world.

the fact is the US government is spineless, too worried about the gun lobbyists and worried about losing their cushy positions to do something about the gun culture in the US. and dont even get me started on the war on iraq whilst at the same time sh1tting yourselves about north korea, the US just looks like bullies on the international stage, only attack the weaklings (and then make a mess of it). its a crazy situation, looking for scapegoats elsewhere, blaming the movies etc. just turn the news on and look at iraq, that should be enough.

this is not an attack on the americans, i have met many and most of the americans i have met are decent, friendly people, however your country is run by an imbecile who lost the first election and was then voted in for a second term who has no idea about right or wrong.

america needs a strong leader to stand up to lobbyists and to tell them straight, sadly now though there are so many guns in circulation the US that its a no win situation

Peewee, would you be so kind to teach the american president how to speak english