Liverpool FC Forum

[Judge]

that happens in war MH

[ruskiy playmaker]

I remember playing Ghost Recon, a Tom Clancy shooter game a few years back and some of the events in the game reminded me of this conflict.  Here's a description of the game. 

Eastern Europe, 2008
The world teeters on the brink of war. Radical ultranationalists have seized power in Moscow - their goal, the reestablishment of the old Soviet empire. Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan - one by onne the nearby independent republics slip back into the Russian orbit. Russian tanks sit in the Caucasus Mountains and the Baltic forests, poised to strike to the south and east. The world hold ots breath, and waits.
For one small group of elite soldiers, the war has already begun: U.S. Special Forces Group 5, First Battalion, D Company. Deployed on peacekeping duty to the Republic of Georgia in the Caucasus, this handful of Green Berets represents the very tip of the spear - the first line of defense. Equipped with the latest battlefield technology, and trained in the latest techniques of covert warfare, they strike - swiftly, silently, and invisibly.
They call themselves "The Ghosts"

Id say that this is pretty interesting because the events take place in the exact location and also during the same yr.  I did some quick research on this, and found out that Clancy gets most of his ideas from actual intelligence agencies.

[Emerald Red]

As usual, the politicians are the Devil's advocates; the innocent bleed.

[woof woof !]

I remember playing Ghost Recon, a Tom Clancy shooter game a few years back and some of the events in the game reminded me of this conflict.  Here's a description of the game. 

Eastern Europe, 2008
The world teeters on the brink of war. Radical ultranationalists have seized power in Moscow - their goal, the reestablishment of the old Soviet empire. Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan - one by onne the nearby independent republics slip back into the Russian orbit. Russian tanks sit in the Caucasus Mountains and the Baltic forests, poised to strike to the south and east. The world hold ots breath, and waits.
For one small group of elite soldiers, the war has already begun: U.S. Special Forces Group 5, First Battalion, D Company. Deployed on peacekeping duty to the Republic of Georgia in the Caucasus, this handful of Green Berets represents the very tip of the spear - the first line of defense. Equipped with the latest battlefield technology, and trained in the latest techniques of covert warfare, they strike - swiftly, silently, and invisibly.
They call themselves "The Ghosts"

Id say that this is pretty interesting because the events take place in the exact location and also during the same yr.  I did some quick research on this, and found out that Clancy gets most of his ideas from actual intelligence agencies.

Despite stepping down from the presidency the ex KGB operative Vladimir Putin still pulls the strings in Moscow. It would be foolish to dismiss the idea that an economically resurgent Russia would at best want to take every opportunity to reclaim it's lost empire and at worst make life "difficult" for those states that left the old USSR.

Georgia's ill considered military action in South Osetia was just the excuse Moscow was looking for to flex it's muscle.

Considering the Wests economic decline and the dramatic growth of China in recent years coupled with Russia's resurgence (based on their huge energy resources) we are  seeing the establishment of a new world order where the US and Western Europe are no longer top dogs. I half expect another "nuclear arms race" at some point in the next decade.

[SouthCoastShankly]

Its clear that Russia have a seriously retaliated inproportionately to Georgia's attack on South Ossetia. But I have two big problems with this conflict:

1) Regardless of Georgia's actions it is my understanding that South Ossetia is part of Georgia. The decision to take out supposed separatists has to be the ruling governments one, I cannot see how Russia justify occupying a nation that has made no threats to Russia directly.

2) I do have a problem with the media response. As far as I support the Georgian side from the media reports I have seen. There has been next to no reports into Russian claims that the Georgian army were attacking Russian civilians.

The best answer I have read was in The Times yesterday. The article focused on the significance of the BP oil pipeline in georgia and suggested that Russia's attacks on Georgia were an excuse to mask hidden intentions of controlling the section of the BP oil pipeline (caspian sea oil not yet at production stage) that Georgia hosts. The pipeline was originally put in after heavy funding from the US and the UK as an alternative to reliance on middle eastern and Russian sourced oil.

If Russia could control this area of pipeline it would allow themselves a slice of that revenue. The evidence is also starting to back this claim as today's news reports that the US are concerned as to why the Russian army, despite a claim that they have finished their military operation, is now occupying the main east-west highway in Georgia - this highway is a stones throw from the BP oil pipeline.

The big question is the US willing to risk war over this oil pipeline - commentators currently think there is not quite enough oil to justify another war.

[Number 9]

South Coast Shankly im sure if we are to scrape away all the stories and lies peddled by the press and spun by greedy countries with more interest in oil and money than the welfare of its people you would be right!
Its almost certainly about oil which means money.The problem is though Russia supplies the EU with oil and no one is gonna want to offend them too much.They have the power to just stop the oil coming to the west and everyone knows this all too well so would rather sit back than rock the boat.
Fair play to the French PM yesterday he actually had the balls to physically go there and try to make peace which has probably been the only humanitarian act from any other country in the whole mess!Brown and Bush make phonecalls WHICH WE ARE TOLD ABOUT IN OUR EVENING NEWS to make it look like they give a fu,ck when we all know they could'nt care less!Lets face it if Gordon Brown is prepared to let the streets of his own back yard become like a slasher movie and still has not done enough to combat it apart from pathetic knife amnesties and hollow words of promise.So why would he give a fu'ck about S Ossetia?
He does'nt because keeping Russia sweet is far more financially benificial to him and the world in general!

Russia have been very clever here,they have got away with playing the big saviour because most of the population in S Ossetia would consider themselves Russian as opposed to Georgian so they struck at a time when it looked as if they were acting on behalf of the majority of its citizens.War in the name of democratic wishes?
As the biggest spouters of  democracy Britain and the US would only look like hypocritical fools to go beyond pleading for peace and questioning Russias motives!
Russia has played a blinder here...and no one seen it coming,the case is watertight and although everyone knows the real reasons,the way it has been portrayed and will go down in history makes Russias actions look like a neccessary evil!

[SouthCoastShankly]

South Coast Shankly im sure if we are to scrape away all the stories and lies peddled by the press and spun by greedy countries with more interest in oil and money than the welfare of its people you would be right!
Its almost certainly about oil which means money.The problem is though Russia supplies the EU with oil and no one is gonna want to offend them too much.They have the power to just stop the oil coming to the west and everyone knows this all too well so would rather sit back than rock the boat.
Fair play to the French PM yesterday he actually had the balls to physically go there and try to make peace which has probably been the only humanitarian act from any other country in the whole mess!Brown and Bush make phonecalls WHICH WE ARE TOLD ABOUT IN OUR EVENING NEWS to make it look like they give a fu,ck when we all know they could'nt care less!Lets face it if Gordon Brown is prepared to let the streets of his own back yard become like a slasher movie and still has not done enough to combat it apart from pathetic knife amnesties and hollow words of promise.So why would he give a fu'ck about S Ossetia?
He does'nt because keeping Russia sweet is far more financially benificial to him and the world in general!

Russia have been very clever here,they have got away with playing the big saviour because most of the population in S Ossetia would consider themselves Russian as opposed to Georgian so they struck at a time when it looked as if they were acting on behalf of the majority of its citizens.War in the name of democratic wishes?
As the biggest spouters of  democracy Britain and the US would only look like hypocritical fools to go beyond pleading for peace and questioning Russias motives!
Russia has played a blinder here...and no one seen it coming,the case is watertight and although everyone knows the real reasons,the way it has been portrayed and will go down in history makes Russias actions look like a neccessary evil!

I appreciate your views but your comment regarding France shows a little naivety. Why do you think the UN is letting the french pm do the negotiation?

Clearly because France was one of the main states that resisted a U.S.led push to grant Georgia a Membership Action Plan, a roadmap to NATO membership.

[Number 9]

South Coast Shankly im sure if we are to scrape away all the stories and lies peddled by the press and spun by greedy countries with more interest in oil and money than the welfare of its people you would be right!
Its almost certainly about oil which means money.The problem is though Russia supplies the EU with oil and no one is gonna want to offend them too much.They have the power to just stop the oil coming to the west and everyone knows this all too well so would rather sit back than rock the boat.
Fair play to the French PM yesterday he actually had the balls to physically go there and try to make peace which has probably been the only humanitarian act from any other country in the whole mess!Brown and Bush make phonecalls WHICH WE ARE TOLD ABOUT IN OUR EVENING NEWS to make it look like they give a fu,ck when we all know they could'nt care less!Lets face it if Gordon Brown is prepared to let the streets of his own back yard become like a slasher movie and still has not done enough to combat it apart from pathetic knife amnesties and hollow words of promise.So why would he give a fu'ck about S Ossetia?
He does'nt because keeping Russia sweet is far more financially benificial to him and the world in general!

Russia have been very clever here,they have got away with playing the big saviour because most of the population in S Ossetia would consider themselves Russian as opposed to Georgian so they struck at a time when it looked as if they were acting on behalf of the majority of its citizens.War in the name of democratic wishes?
As the biggest spouters of  democracy Britain and the US would only look like hypocritical fools to go beyond pleading for peace and questioning Russias motives!
Russia has played a blinder here...and no one seen it coming,the case is watertight and although everyone knows the real reasons,the way it has been portrayed and will go down in history makes Russias actions look like a neccessary evil!

I appreciate your views but your comment regarding France shows a little naivety. Why do you think the UN is letting the french pm do the negotiation?

Clearly because France was one of the main states that resisted a U.S.led push to grant Georgia a Membership Action Plan, a roadmap to NATO membership.

Probably mate im not that into politics to know all the pre history!
All i know is that it is wrong that 2000 innocent mothers,fathers,sons and daughters etc died in the name of nothing but greed,and its brushed under the carpet in the name of democracy when it is the total opposite of anything that any democratic society would want!
Scary times indeed..America has flexed its metaphoric arm for long enough,playing the big superpower and daddy of the planet!Every dog has its day.This conflict is more than just a silly little war...its Russia saying we can do what we want when we want and the world will watch and like it...Its of no coincidence either that this"war" happened when world unity and togetherness was overshadowed in China!
As i said every dog has its day...Russia are simply demonstrating that they are a power to be reckoned with and are no longer the 3rd world comi state that the West took upon itself to change!Russia has oil which is power,Russia also has the biggest nation in the world backing its every move which also worries me!
Bottom line is Bush and Brown are eating out of their palms and there is absolutely nothing that anyone can do to change that...Be prepared for a lot of spin and hype,lies and tales told by two men with Russian shi'te all over their faces!...For those that are not familiar with the term its called brown nosing...get used to it!

[ruskiy playmaker]

I remember playing Ghost Recon, a Tom Clancy shooter game a few years back and some of the events in the game reminded me of this conflict.  Here's a description of the game. 

Eastern Europe, 2008
The world teeters on the brink of war. Radical ultranationalists have seized power in Moscow - their goal, the reestablishment of the old Soviet empire. Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan - one by onne the nearby independent republics slip back into the Russian orbit. Russian tanks sit in the Caucasus Mountains and the Baltic forests, poised to strike to the south and east. The world hold ots breath, and waits.
For one small group of elite soldiers, the war has already begun: U.S. Special Forces Group 5, First Battalion, D Company. Deployed on peacekeping duty to the Republic of Georgia in the Caucasus, this handful of Green Berets represents the very tip of the spear - the first line of defense. Equipped with the latest battlefield technology, and trained in the latest techniques of covert warfare, they strike - swiftly, silently, and invisibly.
They call themselves "The Ghosts"

Id say that this is pretty interesting because the events take place in the exact location and also during the same yr.  I did some quick research on this, and found out that Clancy gets most of his ideas from actual intelligence agencies.

Despite stepping down from the presidency the ex KGB operative Vladimir Putin still pulls the strings in Moscow. It would be foolish to dismiss the idea that an economically resurgent Russia would at best want to take every opportunity to reclaim it's lost empire and at worst make life "difficult" for those states that left the old USSR.

Georgia's ill considered military action in South Osetia was just the excuse Moscow was looking for to flex it's muscle.

Considering the Wests economic decline and the dramatic growth of China in recent years coupled with Russia's resurgence (based on their huge energy resources) we are  seeing the establishment of a new world order where the US and Western Europe are no longer top dogs. I half expect another "nuclear arms race" at some point in the next decade.

You're right every empire falls and so will US.  The question is which empire will replace it next, the EU, Russia, China or a Global one?

[Effes]

Isn't Britain a hypocrite here?

Our invasion of Iraq was totally illegal - and if we're drawing comparisons here
it was on a much larger and more horrific scale.

[Effes]

South Coast Shankly im sure if we are to scrape away all the stories and lies peddled by the press and spun by greedy countries with more interest in oil and money than the welfare of its people you would be right!
Its almost certainly about oil which means money.The problem is though Russia supplies the EU with oil and no one is gonna want to offend them too much.They have the power to just stop the oil coming to the west and everyone knows this all too well so would rather sit back than rock the boat.
Fair play to the French PM yesterday he actually had the balls to physically go there and try to make peace which has probably been the only humanitarian act from any other country in the whole mess!Brown and Bush make phonecalls WHICH WE ARE TOLD ABOUT IN OUR EVENING NEWS to make it look like they give a fu,ck when we all know they could'nt care less!Lets face it if Gordon Brown is prepared to let the streets of his own back yard become like a slasher movie and still has not done enough to combat it apart from pathetic knife amnesties and hollow words of promise.So why would he give a fu'ck about S Ossetia?
He does'nt because keeping Russia sweet is far more financially benificial to him and the world in general!

Russia have been very clever here,they have got away with playing the big saviour because most of the population in S Ossetia would consider themselves Russian as opposed to Georgian so they struck at a time when it looked as if they were acting on behalf of the majority of its citizens.War in the name of democratic wishes?
As the biggest spouters of  democracy Britain and the US would only look like hypocritical fools to go beyond pleading for peace and questioning Russias motives!
Russia has played a blinder here...and no one seen it coming,the case is watertight and although everyone knows the real reasons,the way it has been portrayed and will go down in history makes Russias actions look like a neccessary evil!

I appreciate your views but your comment regarding France shows a little naivety. Why do you think the UN is letting the french pm do the negotiation?

Clearly because France was one of the main states that resisted a U.S.led push to grant Georgia a Membership Action Plan, a roadmap to NATO membership.

Sorry to but in here but....

It's because France currently holds the Presidency of the EU
and it was in this capacity that Sarkozy went to Russsia.