Liverpool FC Forum

[Reg]

Conflict is mavellous business for the defence and R&D industries......

[Kenny Kan]

Hmm, I think I'll give that one a miss, then.


And I'd hardly cite religion as the main factor in these types of brutality. Those carrying these kinds of murders out are nothing but misguided savages, and if they really were devout Muslim, then surely they'd know that the people they killed (assuming that they were of Buddhist faith) that Buddha is regarded as a prophet of Islam in certain sects of their faith as far as I understand it. Maybe MH knows more. These scum get their murderous tendencies from elsewhere, because in no religion I've read about does it instruct people to go around cutting people's heads off out of spite of their faith.

Well, 'you'd hardly cite' blah blah blah, you didn't click the link did you.

extremists hence their name, have or are taking warrior Muhammad's words/interpretations to  extreme measures.

How people are so naive to the blindly obvious is unbelievable, I wish I could be an apologist and brush everything off with a petty excuse and live comfortably with it.

Why would I want to click a link that shows a kid with his head cut off? F*ck that. F*ck that big style.

However, I'm not going to look at something like that, then have my mind swayed by it by having a narrow-minded view that it happened all because of the Muslim faith. The faith had f*ck all to do with it.

So you're happy to speak on behalf of the people who carried this out and other atrocities like it and say their faith had nothing to do with it, even though they contradict it by admitting so.

Bury head in sand.

The religion had nothing to do with it. Yes, that is what I am saying, and I am not apologising or speaking for anyone but myself. Where you're getting that from, I don't know. Every living soul has a choice in life. It's not forced on you by religion. All the religion is is an idea. It's up to the individual how they want to take it, or how much of it they want it to influence their life. If what you're trying to get at is that the Muslim faith teaches people to go out and behead people, then I think you're a bit misguided yourself. As you've said, these people are extremists. Although that word is only a westernised word given to them through the media propaganda. If it were local and something like that happened, not only would it be all over the news on every channel and on the front page of every paper, but they'd be chosing different words to call them. Why is it that something like this happens, yet it's rarely reported in the news here and elswhere in the west? This sort of stuff - and much, much worse - has been going on the World over for a very long time, and not just by those of Islamic faith either. Yet, it gets swept under the carpet.

It's amazing how the World seems to change its views on people of a certain denomination in such a short space of time, it really is. If you want a perfect example of this, just look at most of the films from the 80's. They were all anti-soviet propaganda driven bollox. What, you don't believe me? Go watch Rambo 3 or Rocky or some sh*t like that. Rambo even had the Afghanistans as the good guys, remember? Couldn't see a film like that happening these days, could you? What's my point? Well, it just seems that everytime the US or UK government has a bit of a political agenda, the propganda changes. In the 80's it was Thatcher and Reagan and those terrible Russians. Now it's those bad Arab folks and their nasty religion. As the Yanks say: go figure.

In the previous quote I quoted you on you stated:

''swayed by it by having a narrow-minded view that it happened all because of the Muslim faith. The faith had f*ck all to do with it''

You've stated that the atrocity taken place in Southern Thailand had nothing to do with Muslim faith. You're wrong - plain and simple to come to that conclusion, in fact I'd like you to explain why it had ''f*ck all'' to do with it.

Anyway I digress. I understand what you're are saying about propaganda churned out by western politics and media in particular. To an extent it's valid.

But uprisings do happen - I mean was the world sold propaganda on the Nazis uprising, to an extent yes people were. But it doesn't hide or excuse the fact what the Nazis' were up to. Things, events happen in time like waves, like it or not 9/11 changed the world. Of course there was a lead up to this, stuff we don't perhaps know about - but a catastrophic event like 9/11 changed the world and now we're living another adverse event in time amongst the human race.

The west will sell it, the middle eastern folk may sell as being oppressed by the west whatever. However, where the west's
motivations and justifications are to do with money, land, strategic land, oil, policing the world or whatever. The extremists (which is an apt word for these people, no propaganda, as it describes and labels a group of people) are motivated primarily by the way they interpret the Koran. Otherwise how would you get young people brainwashed into blowing themselves up unless they went to heaven and had 77 virgins or whatever it was drummed into them? They're are not simply ''lunatics'' other wise we'd have a mass population of Muslim's who would verify certification. It's not that simple, yes they have been brainwashed and you may argue that, this is lunacy. But to brainwash so many young people is only done with something as powerful as, an eternal God's (Allah's) wishes. Same with Christy 'fundy's' they believe in a higher power and do the work of the their lord.

It's not some conspiracy theory where the western world are selling a hate campaign at all. These things happen, these things are fact - 9/11, extreme Muslim's carrying out the work they believe are Mohammad words and wishes. And like I said before, it's easy to see why they do these kind of acts because the passages from the Koran can  easily be interpreted as such.

[maypaxvobiscum]

"those who are quick to point fingers at Islam or any religion as the main reason for such tragic events happening around the world are equally guilty of inciting hate via their narrow minded and clearly uneducated views. the last people who should be commenting on religion are non-believers themselves for they know nothing of something they don't even believe in."

- your match thread hero 18/05/2011.

[tubby]

"those who are quick to point fingers at Islam or any religion as the main reason for such tragic events happening around the world are equally guilty of inciting hate via their narrow minded and clearly uneducated views. the last people who should be commenting on religion are non-believers themselves for they know nothing of something they don't even believe in."

- your match thread hero 18/05/2011.

Likewise should those who follow the religion in question then be casting opinions on others who don't follow it? Wouldn't be so bad if they didn't but that isn't quite the case in reality is it?

Anyway, i've got plenty of muslim friends and all of none of them agree with any of these acts, in fact an ex of mine is pakistani (major no no for my family!). But the problem is they don't shout loud enough to distance themselves from these idiots so naturally they are gonna be caste in the same dye.

[Kenny Kan]

"those who are quick to point fingers at Islam or any religion as the main reason for such tragic events happening around the world are equally guilty of inciting hate via their narrow minded and clearly uneducated views. the last people who should be commenting on religion are non-believers themselves for they know nothing of something they don't even believe in."

- your match thread hero 18/05/2011.

Let's not forget Religion and Land are the two major factors of wars throughout human history. On the contrary, as a non-believer of any religion people  are able to view with an 'outside' perspective the adverse effects religion can actually have without trying to excuse it or justify it all the time.

[maypaxvobiscum]

"those who are quick to point fingers at Islam or any religion as the main reason for such tragic events happening around the world are equally guilty of inciting hate via their narrow minded and clearly uneducated views. the last people who should be commenting on religion are non-believers themselves for they know nothing of something they don't even believe in."

- your match thread hero 18/05/2011.

Let's not forget Religion and Land are the two major factors of wars throughout human history. On the contrary, as a non-believer of any religion people  are able to view with an 'outside' perspective the adverse effects religion can actually have without trying to excuse it or justify it all the time.

i can't argue with your first sentence Bam. i do acknowledge certain issues within their religion such as:

1) a man being able to have up to 4 wives, and

2) a non-muslim who marries a muslim has to convert.

so while i do agree with some of your views, i feel it's rather extreme if you get what i mean. it's 6am here and i'm really unable to find the words to express myself

[tubby]

"those who are quick to point fingers at Islam or any religion as the main reason for such tragic events happening around the world are equally guilty of inciting hate via their narrow minded and clearly uneducated views. the last people who should be commenting on religion are non-believers themselves for they know nothing of something they don't even believe in."

- your match thread hero 18/05/2011.

Let's not forget Religion and Land are the two major factors of wars throughout human history. On the contrary, as a non-believer of any religion people  are able to view with an 'outside' perspective the adverse effects religion can actually have without trying to excuse it or justify it all the time.

i can't argue with your first sentence Bam. i do acknowledge certain issues within their religion such as:

1) a man being able to have up to 4 wives, and

2) a non-muslim who marries a muslim has to convert.

so while i do agree with some of your views, i feel it's rather extreme if you get what i mean. it's 6am here and i'm really unable to find the words to express myself

Another major issue is surely the way women are oppressed. Made to walk around in burkhas ect.., also is it right in sharia law that if a women initiates a divorce she loses all her financial entitlements?

[maypaxvobiscum]

"those who are quick to point fingers at Islam or any religion as the main reason for such tragic events happening around the world are equally guilty of inciting hate via their narrow minded and clearly uneducated views. the last people who should be commenting on religion are non-believers themselves for they know nothing of something they don't even believe in."

- your match thread hero 18/05/2011.

Likewise should those who follow the religion in question then be casting opinions on others who don't follow it? Wouldn't be so bad if they didn't but that isn't quite the case in reality is it?

Anyway, i've got plenty of muslim friends and all of none of them agree with any of these acts, in fact an ex of mine is pakistani (major no no for my family!). But the problem is they don't shout loud enough to distance themselves from these idiots so naturally they are gonna be caste in the same dye.

dude, you should watch the movie Partition. it's brilliant.

[maypaxvobiscum]

Another major issue is surely the way women are oppressed. Made to walk around in burkhas ect.., also is it right in sharia law that if a women initiates a divorce she loses all her financial entitlements?

i'm not sure on that. MH should be able to fill us in. as for the oppression bit, i totally agree. i want more skin! 

anyway here's an interesting turn of events click here

[tubby]

Watched that yesterday, was a bit disappointed

[The Good Yank]

Rambo even had the Afghanistans as the good guys, remember? .

Spies Like Us had that in it too, funny movie.

As to my thoughts on where this thread has gone.  It's the individual and their interpretations of their religion that makes them live the way they do.  Some of the most serene and kind hearted people I now are Muslims.  Some of them are Jews (not my brother in law, he's a douche), some of them are Protestants, and some are Catholics ( I am a Catholic and never even thought about bombing an abortion clinic, and think there are plenty of Catholics who are out to fackin lunch with their interpretations), and some are Hindi.  I don't know any Budhists But I'd Imagine a pretty good bit of them are on the right track.

Bottom line for me, it's not the religion that can be blamed for one's actions.  It's the individual.

[metalhead]

Burqa and Niqab are long before Islam, during the dark ages in the Arab Peninsula. It has nothing to do with religion, its more down to tradition.  There is no place in Islam that tells women not to get education or have a right to vote, etc... In Islam  women are told to wear the Hijab (head scarf) that's about it. About the financial entitlments I don't know I have to ask someone about it, anyways its better than your ex-wife  taking everything away from you

As for marriage, no one is forced to change religion. I have close relatives (men) who married Christians and the Christian women weren't forced to change their religion to Islam, some agreed upon it and others did civil marriage. Anyways people don't really convert, Christians agree with it as a formality nothing more, they still preach Christianity and go to church, but on a piece of paper it says muslim. Islam does not allow conversion to another religion, we are pretty strict about that and its punishable by death in a few countries.

[Reg]

Rambo even had the Afghanistans as the good guys, remember? .

Spies Like Us had that in it too, funny movie.
.

It all went t.its up in 'Carry On Up The Kyber' though......

[Keris]

Hmm, I think I'll give that one a miss, then.

^^ This.

Folks. While I appreciate those who tries to understand Islam as a religion, but they really should accept it as it is, a peaceful religion. From where I'm coming from, Islam is not about understanding, its more about faith. An ustaz once told me, "other religion is about 'seeing, than believing'. Whilst Islam is about 'believing than seeing'". Islam is not for about logic, it is not in our ability/capacity to understand it, as a whole. Those who don't understand that, I can't really says represent the religion in general.

Believe me when I say there is more to Islam than what is being projected today. It's not about war or killing or violence. We are first a servant to God and a 'khalifah'/representative to his religion here on earth. Among other duties entrusted upon a muslim is to be successful here on earth and later in the after life. And to do that we must do/fulfill god wishes at the same time excel in everyday life/civilization.

Muslims are to be responsible for their actions, here in life, as they will be judged upon it in as a pass to enter heaven or hell. So we must be kind to women, thoughtful to our children, have empathy towards others but at the same time we must protect our religion should it be oppressed ie. Palestine, but that is another story.

There are many ill inform interpretations in these pages and I am not saying I know all the answers. I don't. But to see Islam and the quran being generalized or deformed as some of the replies above has really made me want to write this. Really folks, say your piece and leave Islam as it is. If you really want to know more about Islam, there is more to it than I could possibly explain it at the best of my abilities, so I would suggest you ask the local muslim cleric/teacher instead of coming out out with assumptions.

This does not make me/muslims any better or worse than any of you. Its just as it is. This is just not the place to be talking about it.

[neil]

if there were no such thing as god, man would make one up.