Liverpool FC Forum

[metalhead]

[Greavesie]

nickin? english please

you already know 

[metalhead]

nickin? english please

you already know 

yes sir-eee

[Bad Bob]

its only down to they way you look at what read and how you read it....but it also matter how many times someone has rewritten it before you get to read it and what you are told about it before you read it.

Another vitally important point, especially the last line.  Of the relatively few people that actually bother to read them extensively, no one comes to read the Bible or Q'ran completely unencumbered by layers of interpretation, tradition and expectation.  We hear distilled versions of the stories long before we read them first hand and these shape how we read and interpret them (including what sections to read carefully and what sections to skip over or skim).  The same goes for critical appraisals of these books: we hear or read the criticisms raised by others before we have a proper look ourselves and, depending on our disposition towards the critique, we tend to read accordingly.

While you think that true, and to an extent it maybe. Those passages that have been quoted from the Koran are clear in what they say.

How and why people band around the word ''interpretation'' so much concerning such explicit statements are probably apologetic to, and sympathize with, the way Islam is perceived by people like myself in the western world.

Bob, it's like me telling you to ''f.uck off'' then you carding me, by your logic I could say ''no, Bob you've interpreted what I have said is wrong, all I meant was 'go away please'' 

But because it's ancient ''holy'' scriptures of a certain faith that are in fact condoning violence non-believers in the fog of the politically correct world put it down to ''misinterpretation''. It's as though extremists are being portrayed here as people who are not intelligent enough to, and or are unable to interpret their own book, in my eyes that couldn't been further from the truth. Certainly as the number of extremists tied to the Islamic faith who use the Koran as their moral and motivational starting point in carrying out extreme acts would also suggest otherwise.

Bam, no one's denying (well, I'm not in any case) that there aren't passages in the Qu'ran that advocate violence, killing and all the other nasty things you are pointing out.  The point is that there are also other passages in the same book that are much more uplifting, peaceful and morally significant.  Like most holy books it contradicts itself all over the place and leaves the faithful with a lot of work to do in sorting out how to go about life.  This is what I'm saying about the need for interpretation.  Anyone who's going to consider this a holy book has to interpret which of the contradictory passages and precepts matter most.  The extremists cherry pick all of the violent passages and conveniently forget the uplifting stuff.  The moderates skim all the death to infidels nonsense and focus on the peace and love stuff.  Those that would like to see Islam as a violent religion at its core cherry pick all the violent passages and those that would like to see it as a peaceful religion at its core pick up on all the touchy-feely stuff.  Whether its Muslims themselves or people who would purport to comment on the Muslim faith from the outside, there's a shedload of interpreting going on.  It's not just a simple of matter of the book says X so that means that Islam is all about X.

[Bad Bob]

And Bob, while you use ''Christian fundys'' taking the bible to extremes, I'm pretty sure you won't get passages like this in the bible - "Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73). That is the difference, one ''holy'' book demands a group to go to war and deal rigorously with them, the other doesn't condone abortion but neither does it say wage war on the 'non-believers of life' i.e. Abortionists.

That's my point, one book incites hatred and violence towards non-believers, the other doesn't, and the other (bible) doesn't have 61% slurring hatred and violence towards another faith i.e. Muslims.

Bam I think you might be surprised at some of the crazy sh.it that's written down in the Bible.  If your interested in at least one critical interpretation check out this guy's website, especially the section "So What Does the Bible Tell Us?."  As I say, there's all kinds of crazy sh.it in the Bible too if you go looking for it.

Now, I'm no theologian so I couldn't say which out of the Bible and the Q'ran has the more morally reprehensible nonsense but I'm guessing that the historical connections between the two faiths means they're both pretty effed up.  As someone that follows neither book, I'm not too bothered which one's nastier, TBH.  Suffice to say I wouldn't want to have fundamentalists of either faith over for dinner.  Historically speaking I'd say the Christians have done far more damage than the Muslims in the name of God, if that's any help.   

[Greavesie]

haha those people who preach about Jesus in city centres are hilarious!

[tubby]

Some pics from the raid

THESE ARE GRAPHIC. CONSIDER YOURSELF WARNED

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-ima....006.jpg

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-ima....007.jpg

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-ima....008.jpg

[Greavesie]

they've been done

[tubby]

Oh have they? It appears im too late.

Nae bother

[Greavesie]

I was speaking about their conditions

excuse my lingo

[laza]

Well as Pagan this sticker sums up the subject matter for me

[Bad Bob]

Well as Pagan this sticker sums up the subject matter for me

[metalhead]

Suffice to say I wouldn't want to have fundamentalists of either faith over for dinner.

That would be a very interesting dinner

[Emerald Red]

F'ckin hell, Bav - you should just have linked those images instead of posting them. The bottom two aren't the worst, but there is something that scares the sh*t out of me seeing someone's eyes who'd died a violent death, like the first image.

On second thoughts, I just had another quick squint. They're all shocking.

[tubby]

Ah sorry mate. Ok I'll edit the post when I get into work in a bit.