Liverpool FC Forum

[dawson99]

people who wanna live here, work here, pay taxes here = good

scum who wanna be on benefits forever (foreigners and brits) = bad

kick out the bad.

and this thing when immigration centres have riots, why teh feck are they not all put on a boat right away?

[Judge]

i watched a program some years back that we have pregnant asylum seekers.

they come here from countries with no serious problems, have their baby and claim asylum as the kid was born here, and they cant be seperated from the baby as technically its british.

moreover, they are usually charged fees for having the kid in their own country but get it here free, plus all the benefits

not right at all

[dawson99]

same thing with brits. young mums churning out kids so they can sit at home, watch trisha and claim benefits. the mroe kids the more money they get so they shoot 'em out like tic tacs

[Judge]

same thing with brits. young mums churning out kids so they can sit at home, watch trisha and claim benefits. the more kids the more money they get so they shoot 'em out like tic tacs

i think its wrong that you solely blame the young mums

it takes two dawson, have you forgot.

considering society is all do-gooding now, its nots surprising that social respect and cohesion has diminished, plus education is poor, and every government for the last 35 years have ruined our identity as a nation, and corrupted the young.

thats why there is so much crime, unwanted births and delinquency etc etc etc.

this nation needs a wake up call.

restore social pride and unity.

invest in the future of our young, and educate the system we have in place right now.

theres a fine line between what we have now and what could be. it just needs someone to visualise it and have the guts to implement it.

who cares if minorities are cheesed off (i also mean minorities such as layabouts who hate work also), its about whats good for the people as a whole.

stop foreign spending, immigration and sort ourselves out first.

whats wrong in looking after number 1 for a change and f'uck everyone else

rant over

[Bad Bob]

they should pay at least 10 years tax and national insurance before they are allowed to claim any benefits or given any help finacialy what so ever .

Is that not the way of it in the UK?  We've got a ten year rule in Canada.  When you sponsor a new immigrant to the country--like I did with my American wife--you sign a contract that says that she will not apply for any benefits for a decade and if she does, the government can come after me for the money...even if we'd separated or divorced.  On the other side of the equation, she wasn't permitted to work until her permanent residency status was approved (6 months) but ever since she's paid taxes like everyone else.  It seems to work, this system, as I've heard of very few immigrants going on the dole, given what a hardship it will be to their sponsoring families.

No Bob, tbh not sure what the deal for "sponsored" immigration is here but the bone of contention in the uk revolves around the so called asylum seekers who arrive here from all corners of the globe.

Now whilst you can understand a citizen of for example Zimbabwe (an ex British colony) making their way to the UK to seek asylum, how do you justify traveling from the Ivory Coast (ex french colony) or Columbia (no affiliation with the UK and surely Mexico is closer ?) to seek asylum in the UK. The truth as many suspect is that the majority ( but not all) of "asylum seekers " are in fact "economic refugees" and whilst the initial assistance given by the uk government would be considered the bare minimum by most "privileged white men" it is in fact better than they would receive in virtually all other countries and in many instances offers them a significant improvement in prospects.


From Gov't sources.
Asylum seekers may enter the UK with false or no documentation as long as they declare their documents to be false and apply for asylum immediately and cooperate with efforts to replace their documentation.

Asylum seekers have the same right to legal help as UK citizens and are subject to the same restrictions.

All refugee and asylum-seeking children can use pre-school facilities and normal rules for admission apply.

Asylum-seeking children up to the age of 16 have the same right to school education as British children, including free school meals.

Asylum seekers are entitled to support from the National Asylum Support Service (NASS), including housing and a weekly allowance, if: they are considered destitute, they have no family or friends with whom they can stay, they have no family friends who can support them.

Unaccompanied asylum seeking children under 18 are supported by social services under the Children Act 1989.

Once they turn 18 they can apply for NASS support.

Asylum seekers can access primary NHS healthcare for free including all NHS accident and emergency, maternity and in-patient/out-patient services.

Asylum seekers do not have to show official documentation when registering with a general practice. GPs have no right to demand to see an asylum seekers’ passport or papers.

NASS are able to help with some health costs such as prescriptions, dental treatment and sight tests, and cover travel costs to and from the hospital.

Asylum seekers with special needs are entitled to a needs assessment by the local authority and might be entitled to community care support, for which the local authority is responsible.

Now whilst most right minded people would consider this legislation right and proper when applied to genuine asylum seekers the fact that 70% of all claims are eventually deemed bogus does nothing for the UK publics perception of or welcome given to the seemingly never ending tide of the great unwashed crashing on our shores.

Interesting.  Any sense of the numbers, Woof?  How many asylum seekers enter the UK each year?  I've had a nosy around the Government of Canada website and apparently we let in something in the neighbourhood of 12,000 t0 14,000 refugees per year in recent years (for a country of 33.4 million people).  I gather that our regulations on refugees have tightened up considerably post 9/11 (largely due to American pressure).  It does seem that we do have a pretty reasonable screening process that requires refugees prove they qualify as refugees in order to be granted asylum.  It also helps that UN conventions permit us to refuse any refugees who have passed through another safe country (such as the US or the UK) to get to Canada (unless they have family here).  We also cut off the bulk off government-funded financial assistance after 1 year and have a series of loan programs that refugees are expected to pay back.  Perhaps all of this explains why you rarely hear any complaints in Canada about refugees abusing the system?

[woof woof !]

they should pay at least 10 years tax and national insurance before they are allowed to claim any benefits or given any help finacialy what so ever .

Is that not the way of it in the UK?  We've got a ten year rule in Canada.  When you sponsor a new immigrant to the country--like I did with my American wife--you sign a contract that says that she will not apply for any benefits for a decade and if she does, the government can come after me for the money...even if we'd separated or divorced.  On the other side of the equation, she wasn't permitted to work until her permanent residency status was approved (6 months) but ever since she's paid taxes like everyone else.  It seems to work, this system, as I've heard of very few immigrants going on the dole, given what a hardship it will be to their sponsoring families.

No Bob, tbh not sure what the deal for "sponsored" immigration is here but the bone of contention in the uk revolves around the so called asylum seekers who arrive here from all corners of the globe.

Now whilst you can understand a citizen of for example Zimbabwe (an ex British colony) making their way to the UK to seek asylum, how do you justify traveling from the Ivory Coast (ex french colony) or Columbia (no affiliation with the UK and surely Mexico is closer ?) to seek asylum in the UK. The truth as many suspect is that the majority ( but not all) of "asylum seekers " are in fact "economic refugees" and whilst the initial assistance given by the uk government would be considered the bare minimum by most "privileged white men" it is in fact better than they would receive in virtually all other countries and in many instances offers them a significant improvement in prospects.


From Gov't sources.
Asylum seekers may enter the UK with false or no documentation as long as they declare their documents to be false and apply for asylum immediately and cooperate with efforts to replace their documentation.

Asylum seekers have the same right to legal help as UK citizens and are subject to the same restrictions.

All refugee and asylum-seeking children can use pre-school facilities and normal rules for admission apply.

Asylum-seeking children up to the age of 16 have the same right to school education as British children, including free school meals.

Asylum seekers are entitled to support from the National Asylum Support Service (NASS), including housing and a weekly allowance, if: they are considered destitute, they have no family or friends with whom they can stay, they have no family friends who can support them.

Unaccompanied asylum seeking children under 18 are supported by social services under the Children Act 1989.

Once they turn 18 they can apply for NASS support.

Asylum seekers can access primary NHS healthcare for free including all NHS accident and emergency, maternity and in-patient/out-patient services.

Asylum seekers do not have to show official documentation when registering with a general practice. GPs have no right to demand to see an asylum seekers’ passport or papers.

NASS are able to help with some health costs such as prescriptions, dental treatment and sight tests, and cover travel costs to and from the hospital.

Asylum seekers with special needs are entitled to a needs assessment by the local authority and might be entitled to community care support, for which the local authority is responsible.

Now whilst most right minded people would consider this legislation right and proper when applied to genuine asylum seekers the fact that 70% of all claims are eventually deemed bogus does nothing for the UK publics perception of or welcome given to the seemingly never ending tide of the great unwashed crashing on our shores.

  Any sense of the numbers, Woof?  How many asylum seekers enter the UK each year?

Non at all Bob , even the government (last year) were finally pushed to admit that they had no reliable statistics as to how many people had entered this country in the preceding twelve months.

Don't know if this helps but one figure that was confirmed .

The government forcast of the number of Polish people expected to arrive in the first 12 months after they received full EU status was 80,000. They have since confirmed in was in excess of 300,000. My area know has shops catering soley for Poles and even my local supermarket (one of the largest in south london) has an area dedicated to Polish produce.

Do I resent all these Poles being here ? No way, a decent people and valiant allies .
Am I f'ucked off that in my area of my own country I'm part of a minority group ? you bet I am.

[woof woof !]

Now whilst most right minded people would consider this legislation right and proper when applied to genuine asylum seekers the fact that 70% of all claims are eventually deemed bogus does nothing for the UK publics perception of or welcome given to the seemingly never ending tide of the great unwashed crashing on our shores.

so now we're having a dig at aquatic hippies as well? heaven help us!

Dig at Aquatic Hippies ?
What the f'uck are you on about ? Don't talk to me about hippies mate , 'cause you and most people under 40 haven't got a f'ucking clue about Hippies.

[Bad Bob]

Non at all Bob , even the government (last year) were finally pushed to admit that they had no reliable statistics as to how many people had entered this country in the preceding twelve months.

Don't know if this helps but one figure that was confirmed .

The government forcast of the number of Polish people expected to arrive in the first 12 months after they received full EU status was 80,000. They have since confirmed in was in excess of 300,000. My area know has shops catering soley for Poles and even my local supermarket (one of the largest in south london) has an area dedicated to Polish produce.

Do I resent all these Poles being here ? No way, a decent people and valiant allies .
Am I f'ucked off that in my area of my own country I'm part of a minority group ? you bet I am.

Okay, mate, forgive my ignorance with these questions but I'm interested to learn more about the circumstances over there.  So, you mentioned in your earlier post that asylum seekers, in their vast multitudes, are one source of irritation.  In this post you seem to add people who have arrived from elsewhere in Europe as part of the EU common market.  Do I have that right?  Two rather distinct groups of immigrants to Britain who arrive under different circumstances, for ostensibly different reasons, but who have--when taken collectively--significantly transformed the demographic character of the UK in a short space of time?  Is that the gist of it?

[dawson99]

Now whilst most right minded people would consider this legislation right and proper when applied to genuine asylum seekers the fact that 70% of all claims are eventually deemed bogus does nothing for the UK publics perception of or welcome given to the seemingly never ending tide of the great unwashed crashing on our shores.

so now we're having a dig at aquatic hippies as well? heaven help us!

Dig at Aquatic Hippies ?
What the f'uck are you on about ? Don't talk to me about hippies mate , 'cause you and most people under 40 haven't got a f'ucking clue about Hippies.

great unwashed crashing... methinks he was being funny dude 

[Sabre]

Doesn't in the other hand the geographic location of Canada help their inmigration policies?

I mean it's not the same to have a border in the South with Mexico or having U.S.A as border. In Old Europe I think Spain, Italy and UK are one of the preffered targets for arrivals from Africa and the Magreb countries. Even with the right policies you might have more problems depending on your geographic location I think, but you understand a lot more than me about this stuff.

[Reg]

our services in the NHS are suffering due to overload in demand from non-brits

Not necessarily, its also because we are also becoming a namby-pamby nation.

Pre-war there was no NHS, you paid if you went to the doctor. No one went to the doctor in Liverpool when my dad was a lad unless your leg was falling off. Your mother and grandmother knew how to diaognose problems and also knew cures or would spend money in the chenists, but no one went to the hospital etc..

Yes, the population wasnt as well loooked after and the life expectancy was lower as a result. Nanny might remember the fever hospital which you wouldnt have today, but used to be full of kids in the old days.

So, we´re in better health as a result of the NHS but at the same time people abuse it by going for every little ailment they can think of.

You have to find a balance.

[Bad Bob]

Doesn't in the other hand the geographic location of Canada help their inmigration policies?

I mean it's not the same to have a border in the South with Mexico or having U.S.A as border. In Old Europe I think Spain, Italy and UK are one of the preffered targets for arrivals from Africa and the Magreb countries. Even with the right policies you might have more problems depending on your geographic location I think, but you understand a lot more than me about this stuff.

Absolutely, mate.  The only way refugees can arrive in Canada without first going through the U.S. (which allows us to refuse entry) is by plane or by boat (ocean liners...).  Relatively few refugees, of course, can afford airfare direct to Canada so that leaves boats.  On occasion you'll hear about a freighter carrying Tamil, Chinese or Vietnamese refugees showing up in one of our ports but it's relatively rare.

[woof woof !]

Yeah , that is the gist of it, although I can't swear it applies to the UK as a whole I can certainly confirm it's applicable to vast swathes of London .

[Reg]

What a great country Canada is.  I´ve love to do a big tour, never been there but I know I´d love it.
Got this thing that I want to live in Vancouver.

[Sabre]

In Spain instead, there are reaching a lot of boats crowded with people from Africa. Seeing them reaching your shores softens the heart of any bloke who considers himself christian or a good bloke for that matter, it's terrible.

That has raised solidarity movements and also demands for a response to government.

The government has repratiation agreements with most of the African countries, so we send them back in planes (those who don't find death in the sea), which I guess also cost money.

The other movement to solve this problem is to help the countries that this inmigrants come from in order they don't have to leave the country. That's what the government tells us of course, in reality it will be giving those countries money, a couple of old corvettes, and expect those countries solve the problem before they reach our shores. And yes you can expect the worse from the corvettes and how they solve the problem. Anything is good in order our tourists and good christian people don't see the horror of hunger in our shores while they're having a bath.

Ah. And we'll all go to the 12.30 am mess in Sunday.

I Know we can't receive them all, it's not realistic, but the Justice in this world is terrible, we have our share of guilt, and it's sickening.  Sorry for the rant, but some of the misery I've seen in some guys coming from Africa have touched my heart as of late.