Liverpool FC Forum

[Reg]

Tested 12 times and every time just under the limit - but the limit is not zero.

The common interpretation of the Jamaican authorities 'forgetting' to test athletes for the 6 months prior to the 2012 is obvious, to allow them to train a whole winter on EPO etc.. then have time to wash it out of their systems prior to the games.

Sport is riddled with corruption, its not just FIFA or UEFA, the IOC or F1, it's all the way down to young 8 year olds on their path to the olympics etc..

[Big Niall]

Anyone willing to say that they believe that Mo Farrah is clean?

I remember reading tyler Hamilton's book about drugs in cycling , it was written before Lance Armstrong admitted to drug use. It was pathetic, if you were organised you wouldn't get caught. The cycling authorities didn't get Lance Armstrong, he passed all their drug tests. It was the U.S government who sponsored the team (the U.S postal service) , hence he was committing a crime under American law.

I remember seeing a documentary which said the British anti-drug body didn't know where Linford Christie lived when he was an athlete. They phoned him and he asked him where he was, he told them and then a couple of hours later he did the test.

[Buck Rodgers]

Yes I believe Mo Farah is clean - don't believe he is the sort of person to take performance enhancing drugs

There is a lot of people who have been caught etc but believe people like Farah , Bolt etc are guys that are ones you can trust.

[fivecups]

Yes I believe Mo Farah is clean - don't believe he is the sort of person to take performance enhancing drugs

There is a lot of people who have been caught etc but believe people like Farah , Bolt etc are guys that are ones you can trust.

I'd love to believe you but the fact that he only became world class when he joined the Salazar camp is a bit of a coincidence.

What are peoples thoughts about Paula Radcliffe? Compare her world record time to all the other best women's marathon times.

[Buck Rodgers]

Yes I believe Mo Farah is clean - don't believe he is the sort of person to take performance enhancing drugs

There is a lot of people who have been caught etc but believe people like Farah , Bolt etc are guys that are ones you can trust.

I'd love to believe you but the fact that he only became world class when he joined the Salazar camp is a bit of a coincidence.

What are peoples thoughts about Paula Radcliffe? Compare her world record time to all the other best women's marathon times.

Until he is proven or fails a drug test or admits it then can only be innocent tbh

It is a shame that he is being tainted right now

[fivecups]

Yes I believe Mo Farah is clean - don't believe he is the sort of person to take performance enhancing drugs

There is a lot of people who have been caught etc but believe people like Farah , Bolt etc are guys that are ones you can trust.

I'd love to believe you but the fact that he only became world class when he joined the Salazar camp is a bit of a coincidence.

What are peoples thoughts about Paula Radcliffe? Compare her world record time to all the other best women's marathon times.

Until he is proven or fails a drug test or admits it then can only be innocent tbh

It is a shame that he is being tainted right now

What are your thoughts on Paula?

[Buck Rodgers]

That she was a talented long distance runner who worked very hard

She was very very vocal when it come to drug cheats - remember her banner about EPO I think it was - she is clean IMO

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

I think Radcliffe is clean, I think most British athlete's are, there's not many of them running stellar times or achieving huge distances even the ones that have won Olympic golds. How many Brits hold World Records? Edwards is the only one I can think of.
Even Mo, let's not forget that he is originally from East Africa which is a part of the world which churns out quality distance runners and his best time for the 10,000m (which is his strongest event) is a long way off Bekele's WR, in fact Gebrselassie was running quicker times than Mo's PB 20 years ago.

[Reg]

I agree, Mo and Radcliffe are under the limit however the limit is not zero like I said. I don't think you get to the top today unless you have a well balanced enhancement programme, but in their cases leaving out the obvious banned drugs.

[maguskwt]

I'm struggling to find the official list that I saw 12-18 months back, it's a WADA list issued on a monthly basis that announces latest athletes across all sports who have been suspended that month + a running list of those currently under suspension. In the meantime even wiki has a list of those athletes under suspension:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_do ... s_in_sport

The problem in sport is that doping has become an industry. The Chinese are hard at it and these drugs find their way elsewhere. The emphasis is on keeping levels just below the legal limit so the authorities know that doping is going on but can't prosecute.

I've watched a documentary on Usain Bolt and undoubtedly he is a great athlete and his height, strength and muscle twitch speed are tremendous advantages however lets not pretend he doesn't also adhere to a strict regeme of whatever that keeps him just below the legal limit. Athletic performance progress over the last 30 years isn't simply a case of getting up early and training hard.

One of the world's most graceful and wonderful athletes ever, Carl Lewis set the world alight running the 100m in 9.92 seconds on September 24, 1988. The guy was tall, light and sprang along like a gazelle, a natural athlete - yet even today some folks swear he doped. How logical or realistic is it that Usain Bolt who reduced his own existing WR from 9.69 secs to 9.58 on August 16, 2009 and that record still stands today? It is too great a reduction. If you look at the previous 20 world record improvements, they're all around 0.02 or 0.03 at best, not 0.11 !! And a number of the previous 10 record holders were suspicious. Remember Ben Johnson burning the track in the Seoul olympics only then to be banned?

Bolt's 9.58 WR is now 6 years old which again defies natural progression or improvement, again the record book shows a pattern of records being broken every 1-2 years however no one has been able to get close to Bolt for 6 years? Has Bolt himself had to change his cocktail as doping tests become better hence he hasn't been able to get close to his record?

How logical is it that  Hicham El Guerrouj (MAR) WR for the 1,500m (3:26.00) has stood since 1998?  No one runs the 1,500m any more?

Look at the women's 800m world record progression:

1:57.5 Svetla Zlateva (BUL) 1973-08-24 Athens, Greece
1:56.0 Valentina Gerasimova (URS) 1976-06-12 Kiev, Soviet Union
1:54.9 Tatyana Kazankina (URS) 1976-07-26 Montreal, Canada
1:54.9 Nadezhda Olizarenko (URS) 1980-06-12 Moscow, Soviet Union
1:53.5 Nadezhda Olizarenko (URS) 1980-07-27 Moscow, Soviet Union
1:53.3 Jarmila Kratochvílová (TCH) 1983-07-26 Munich, West Germany

No WR since 1983 !!!  All doped up for the Olympics with testing unable to identify the drugs! 

Other sports are the same, the tremendous efforts required in cycling have encouraged cyclist to dope, Armstrong is an obvious example however it is also clear from the ongoing suspensions that cyclists still 'need' to dope to compete at the top in a 3 week Tour de France or Giro d'Italia. It isn't humanely possible to ride 250kms with a mountain top finish one day then repeat the following day, every day for a prolonged period.

Swimming? Tennis - Nadal has suffered strong rumours for a few years plus a never properly explained break from the sport 12 months ago which some say was an unofficial ban. Rugby... those lads are so well tuned and able to take knock after knock and bounce back up and sprint off that questions have to be asked. Football, there are very few serious athletes in football so I don't think it prevalent however there are strong rumours in Spain that doping is taking place. 

Sadly professional sport is currently suffering greatly as athletes risk all going for big bucks.

But if doping is so rampant, surely the women's records will be broken more often too? Flo jo's 10.49s still stands since 88.

[Reg]

Maybe drugs were a lot more effective in those days as tests were more basic, hence she whacked it out of sight!

It does seem very unusual, with diet, better training, technique and 'preparation' you'd think someone would have overhauled it by now. It would be interesting to hear a better qualified explanation.

[Buck Rodgers]

I agree, Mo and Radcliffe are under the limit however the limit is not zero like I said. I don't think you get to the top today unless you have a well balanced enhancement programme, but in their cases leaving out the obvious banned drugs.

I believe the limit is zero because the body naturally already has elements on performing enhancing chemicals in it - it's impossible to have a zero limit

There are a number of pain relief and illness relief drugs also that contains certain banned substances but don't actually "enhance performance"

My OH plays top level sport and in the July she gets the list of the banned substances and what she can and can't have - things like Benilyn

Remember Alain Baxter - bought an over the counter Vicks Inhaler and was banned because it contained a banned substance but the UK version doesn't ?!

It's a minefield but I dont believe it's rife in UK Athletics - Farah IMO whilst taking Asthma inhalers to help him breath well isn't breaking the rules and don't think Radcliffe ever used Performance enhancing drugs

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

I'm struggling to find the official list that I saw 12-18 months back, it's a WADA list issued on a monthly basis that announces latest athletes across all sports who have been suspended that month + a running list of those currently under suspension. In the meantime even wiki has a list of those athletes under suspension:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_do ... s_in_sport

The problem in sport is that doping has become an industry. The Chinese are hard at it and these drugs find their way elsewhere. The emphasis is on keeping levels just below the legal limit so the authorities know that doping is going on but can't prosecute.

I've watched a documentary on Usain Bolt and undoubtedly he is a great athlete and his height, strength and muscle twitch speed are tremendous advantages however lets not pretend he doesn't also adhere to a strict regeme of whatever that keeps him just below the legal limit. Athletic performance progress over the last 30 years isn't simply a case of getting up early and training hard.

One of the world's most graceful and wonderful athletes ever, Carl Lewis set the world alight running the 100m in 9.92 seconds on September 24, 1988. The guy was tall, light and sprang along like a gazelle, a natural athlete - yet even today some folks swear he doped. How logical or realistic is it that Usain Bolt who reduced his own existing WR from 9.69 secs to 9.58 on August 16, 2009 and that record still stands today? It is too great a reduction. If you look at the previous 20 world record improvements, they're all around 0.02 or 0.03 at best, not 0.11 !! And a number of the previous 10 record holders were suspicious. Remember Ben Johnson burning the track in the Seoul olympics only then to be banned?

Bolt's 9.58 WR is now 6 years old which again defies natural progression or improvement, again the record book shows a pattern of records being broken every 1-2 years however no one has been able to get close to Bolt for 6 years? Has Bolt himself had to change his cocktail as doping tests become better hence he hasn't been able to get close to his record?

How logical is it that  Hicham El Guerrouj (MAR) WR for the 1,500m (3:26.00) has stood since 1998?  No one runs the 1,500m any more?

Look at the women's 800m world record progression:

1:57.5 Svetla Zlateva (BUL) 1973-08-24 Athens, Greece
1:56.0 Valentina Gerasimova (URS) 1976-06-12 Kiev, Soviet Union
1:54.9 Tatyana Kazankina (URS) 1976-07-26 Montreal, Canada
1:54.9 Nadezhda Olizarenko (URS) 1980-06-12 Moscow, Soviet Union
1:53.5 Nadezhda Olizarenko (URS) 1980-07-27 Moscow, Soviet Union
1:53.3 Jarmila Kratochvílová (TCH) 1983-07-26 Munich, West Germany

No WR since 1983 !!!  All doped up for the Olympics with testing unable to identify the drugs! 

Other sports are the same, the tremendous efforts required in cycling have encouraged cyclist to dope, Armstrong is an obvious example however it is also clear from the ongoing suspensions that cyclists still 'need' to dope to compete at the top in a 3 week Tour de France or Giro d'Italia. It isn't humanely possible to ride 250kms with a mountain top finish one day then repeat the following day, every day for a prolonged period.

Swimming? Tennis - Nadal has suffered strong rumours for a few years plus a never properly explained break from the sport 12 months ago which some say was an unofficial ban. Rugby... those lads are so well tuned and able to take knock after knock and bounce back up and sprint off that questions have to be asked. Football, there are very few serious athletes in football so I don't think it prevalent however there are strong rumours in Spain that doping is taking place. 

Sadly professional sport is currently suffering greatly as athletes risk all going for big bucks.

But if doping is so rampant, surely the women's records will be broken more often too? Flo jo's 10.49s still stands since 88.

Marita Koch is another one with a long standing WR. She was another who was ridiculously quick

[fivecups]

I think Radcliffe is clean, I think most British athlete's are, there's not many of them running stellar times or achieving huge distances even the ones that have won Olympic golds. How many Brits hold World Records? Edwards is the only one I can think of.
Even Mo, let's not forget that he is originally from East Africa which is a part of the world which churns out quality distance runners and his best time for the 10,000m (which is his strongest event) is a long way off Bekele's WR, in fact Gebrselassie was running quicker times than Mo's PB 20 years ago.

Hold up YC, Reg, Buck. Unfortunately in athletics if something seems too good to be true it is, see Michelle Smith above.

Paula Radcliffe holds the women's marathon record by three minutes and 12 seconds!!! That's 3 minutes faster than any of the African athletes, the ones who dominate any of the Caucasians currently competing. She set that record in 2003 and no-one since has got remotely close. That same time difference would take you from the 4th fastest time to the 91st fastest time for women's marathon. It's a massive difference to any other woman in history, 7 seconds per mile fast than anyone else.

For comparison the gap between the first and second fastest man is FIVE SECONDS overall! In fact, you'd have to look at the fastest to the 130th fastest man to find a gap of 3 mins 12 seconds. The top 46 mens times were all run by Africans!

How was that possible? Guys unfortunately it's clear - Paula Radcliffe WAS NOT CLEAN!

[Buck Rodgers]

Sorry but there is no proof at all to back up any accusations that Radcliffe is anything other than a clean athelete

Radcliffe was one of the most vocal anti drugs athelete a - do you not remember her placard and protests at the Europeans I think it was ?

She worked hard under her coach to get that good at running the marathon and earned her WR

Every now and then a record is smashed by someone and stays there for a long time - that doesn't automatically suggest performance enhancing drugs and it's a shame if that's starts to become the immediate thinking

Here is a recent interview from her I regards drugs and her demands for more testing and stronger testing

http://www.runnersworld.com/newswire/pa ... suspicions