Liverpool FC Forum

[redbeergoggles]

It seems the date was just a coincidence ,not a malevolent  attempt to court controversy as some would have you believe ,once again I do not adhere personally to all or indeed any of their beliefs ,but I will acknowledge the fact that there is indeed two sides to every coin ,and every faction has the freedom to express their views without being bracketed and indeed classified as racists .

[redbeergoggles]

I'd also just add that I've never advocated that the protest should have been prevented because of the nature of their views. They were within their rights to demonstrate - and that's a right I will defend - but by the same token I'm perfectly within my rights to express my own views to the contrary, which I have done.

This was never in question it was the use of the derogatory and inflammatory words that you used to describe the nature of the protesters ,this is what I found most offensive ,even more offensive than when you described myself as a c*** ,something I might add I had the tact not to reciprocate ..

[Sabre]

I'd also just add that I've never advocated that the protest should have been prevented because of the nature of their views. They were within their rights to demonstrate - and that's a right I will defend - but by the same token I'm perfectly within my rights to express my own views to the contrary, which I have done.

This was never in question it was the use of the derogatory and inflammatory words that you used to describe the nature of the protesters ,this is what I found most offensive ,even more offensive than when you described myself as a c*** ,something I might add I had the tact not to reciprocate ..

Í'm going to talk about feelings, and with the aim of trying you two stop fighting.

I think I know why LFC calls them cúnts because I suspect I might have similar feelings about it. I consider  the *leaders* of those protests cúnts because they use the noble feelings and concerns of decent people like you to fulfill a political agenda that existed *well before* the muslim extremists became a problem in your country.

Noble is the feeling of people wanting their daughters safe, their religion not lost, their soldiers respected, the terrorism combatted. That's noble and nice. But when some of those political groups lie deliberately and enter details like a mosque being inaugurated in 9/11 on purpose, they seek to gain your noble feelings for their agenda. That rises a feeling of hate in me towards those political leaders.

Because I come from a place in which in 1936, people with agenda used the noble feelings of the people and at the end we had brothers fighting against brothers in a civil war. And the scars of it still hurt in 2009. Let God doesn't allow you know in your country the shame of fighting between british people. A Civil war is something that puts a stamp in the feelings of the people, not only of the people who suffered directly, also in the future generations.

Using lies to attract the noble concerns of decent people like you is something that generates a feeling of disdain and indignation in me. So if I see fascists (because fascists use the same arguments universally) gaining noble and nice people for their cause with lies, hate rises in my heart and I call them cúnts too.

That's how I feel and I suspect LFC might have similar (with another background) feelings.

Fascist cráp always made sense when was spouted in their time. And I just hope fascism doesn't make his way again in Europe and we learned the lesson once and forever.

I don't think LFC called you a cúnt, but the ones that designed the protests. He tried to explain the unaccuracies and lies that were used by them in order to show why they are cúnts. I don't think he meant that everyone that has a concern to keep the values of your country or went to those protests were cúnts.

[Ciggy]

1. There is a problem on the streets of the Uk with people openly disrespecting "Britishness" and what it stands for. Yes celebrate Ramadan and Dawali and the year of the tadpole and all that stuff, but at least doff your caps in the direction of the customs of the country in which you live. Burning flags, going to train in foreign lands to either kill our soldiers or to return 'home" and blow up tube trains and the like really isn't on. The avarage working man feels that he is discriminated against in terms of council housing and social provision, in favour of what he considers to be "migrants".

2. People in England particularly feel there is nobody to turn to when their village is overrun by armies of travellers who appear to be above the law. The authorites seemingly don't have the stomach to address the issue.

3. On council estates throughout the country people are afraid to leave their homes after dark as gangs of young men rule the streets. despite heartfelt pleast from accross the lands, the ruling classes seemingly don't give a feck, otherwise they'd do something about it.

4. Convicted paedophiles should in the opinion of most working people stay "inside" until they stop breathing. You can lump racists in there as well as far as I'm concerned, but I'm particularly convinced about paedophiles. I think the test for any of these jumped up college degree phsycologists saying such and such is reformed, is he should put his kids in the cell with the said monster for two days and nights prior to release. If he isn't prepared to back his judgement in such a way, we should leave the c... where he is.


All of these issues bring tut-tuts (not necessarily from LFC but from people who are "more cleverer" than me), but on all of these issues I'm right. So there .

Nail on head.

At the momment in Holland there is a stand off between Molukkers (who ever they are?) & Morrocans, there's been a lot of trouble every night this last week, setting cars on fire, stabbings, weapons being branded about in this certain area of Holland. Because the Morrocans dont want the Molukkers staying on their estate or even coming on to it and vice versa.
these people came to Holland for a safe haven how is it a safe haven when they are turning their areas into what they are trying to escape? Its off its head and people cant be @rsed with it because they just look like trouble causers instead of trying to get along with each other and live in peace.

And not far from me a load of Romainan Gypsies have arrived, they are robbing the shops soft, the houses, peoples wallets and bags in the market and in shops, they sit on the benches by the shops clocking and eyeing up everyone then send their kids after people to rob them.
I asume they are here because they are part of europe now, but they will not be contributing to europe because all they do is steal and beg and you dont pay tax when you earn your living in such a manor.

They are very intimidating and I live in a nice area, and they are walking around the streets of a night, not for some fresh air but to steal. Its quite scary because they wouldnt think twice of breaking in and slitting your throat they are brutal, and you dont feel safe in your own home.
Usually big cities have these problems but I am out in the wilds and I do not leave my house after dark since they have turned up in the area.

There is a big lake with all lovely expensive houses on at the end of my road, beautiful of a day to take the dog and feed the ducks, of a night time they gather there and its like a ghetto. Which has lead to for sale signs going up at the expensive houses around the lake.

They are trying to turn the area into a stinking gypo camp and its not on and it shouldnt be aloud.

[account deleted by request]

Posted on behalf of a mate


Quote ... From SIOE....

Firstly, thanks for your balanced reports.

With reference to the Stop Islamisation Of Europe (SIOE) arranged demonstration on 11th September and some observations made by our opponents.

Firstly, this is an annual SIOE event, the inaugural one being outside the Brussels Parliament in 2007 and last year outside Lambeth Palace.

We do not change the date and it is purely a feature of the calendar that it falls on a Friday in 2009.  The 11th September was chosen by Al-Qaeda in 2001 in retaliation for the Muslim hordes being thrown back from the gates of Vienna in 1683, on that date.

We have been assured that groups attending our demonstration will protest within the law. Anything to the contrary will result in guilty parties being ejected from the protest.

Sarah Cox, spokesperson for Unite Against Fascism (UAF), seemingly intimated that SIOE is covertly racist (Harrow Times 26/08/2009) which is patently absurd.  SIOE was the only organisation that demonstrated in Denmark against Muslim racism against non-Muslim Inuits, who originate from Greenland. Muslims intimidated and persecuted Greenlanders to such a degree in their hometown of Gellerup, that they were removed from their homes by the authorities.

Perhaps the fiercest opponents of Islam are ex-Muslims and obviously they are from many different races.  People do not have to take our word for it about how bad Islam is to live under.  The ex-Muslim, ex-Palestinian terrorist, Walid Shoebat, is most condemnatory about Islam and may be seen on the video “Islam: What the West needs to know”, the full version of which may be seen on Google videos and accessed through SIOE’s website.

Other prominent ex-Muslims, who oppose Islam, are Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Nonie Darwish and Wafa Sultan.  All of these people have received death threats from Muslims and some live in hiding, even in the West.

Brigitte Gabriel, a Lebanese-born Christian was hounded out of her home by Muslims, along with so many others that Christians, once having comprised the majority in Lebanon, now form only about 25%. Her story and views on Islam may be seen on YouTube.

We have support from communities persecuted by Muslims in Islamic countries, such as Hindus and Copts.

So for Sarah Cox to describe our demonstration, as “irrational discrimination” is entirely inaccurate.

The hackneyed accusation of racism is deliberately hurled, to quell all opposition.  It has become so overused, that people are now dangerously becoming immune to it.

Sarah Cox also described anti-Islam demonstrators as “thugs” and that she “would not like to take them on” as she is 72 years old.

I enclose two photographs of SIOE supporters, the first of a woman in her seventies beaten down with iron bars while on her way to a Stop Islamisation demonstration in Copenhagen 2007.  The second is of a woman in her thirties attacked with a bottle at the same time.

My colleague Anders Gravers fought the attackers and was stabbed, only his security vest saving his life.  Two other SIOE supporters were beaten with iron bars also.

The attack was perpetrated by self-styled anti-fascists who boasted about it on their websites.  These “anti-fascists” are in reality the most violent fascists resorting to thuggery at the first opportunity.  In this they emulate Muslims, as evidenced by the latter’s response to the Danish cartoons, just one of thousands of examples.

All this Muslim violence against non-Muslims is taught within mosques.  Reportedly, at least half of England’s mosques are “radicalised”.  We do not need any more.



1. Stop Islamisation Of Europe – SIOE

SIOE, does not accept the notion of moderate Muslims.

This makes SIOE different to all other anti-Islamist groups who only oppose Islamist “extremists”.

SIOE seeks to stop Islam and Sharia Law, and denounces Nazism, communism, totalitarianism and racism. SIOE encourages communities persecuted by Islamic regimes, or by Muslim minorities in for example Thailand, to explain their plight because the mainstream media censor news about Islamic persecution and oppression.

SIOE holds peaceful demonstrations across Europe at locations such as the EU Parliament and other parliamentary buildings, town squares, supermarkets and wherever it considers Islamisation is encroaching on European culture, traditions, politics and laws.

SIOE has been campaigning since 2007.  It provides a voice for minority communities oppressed and persecuted by Muslims across the world.  It has support from such communities because of its fierce and consistent anti-racist policy and its banning of political parties from its events.

People from all adult age groups join SIOE’s demonstrations.

SIOE resents accusations of racism. In 2008 SIOE was the only organisation to protest against the ethnic cleansing of Greenlander Inuits by Muslims in Gellerup in northern Denmark.  It is the only organisation that demonstrates against (as opposed to talking about) the Muslim persecution of non-Muslims happening around the world.

[account deleted by request]

From my perspective, they are making the greatest generalisations of all; they make no effort to distinguish between extremists or moderates because of the strength of their Anti-Islamic views (to give you an idea; they liken Islam to Nazism). Those who are not known to be extremists (the peaceful majority) are considered to be tacit approvers of extremist behaviour - which, in the context of this forum, would be to argue that Metalhead is an extremist sympathiser.

In my opinion, that makes them ignorant c...ts. If you disagree, I'm all ears.

Doesn't this generalisation work both ways?

You 'alluded my political stance' to the BNP. In other word indirectly accussing me to be racist, as we all know what the BNP stand for.

Does this make you an ignorant c.... then?

Likewise with the media and most liberal leftists', anyone in society who agrees with certain principles that the SIOE hold are deemed racist because it. It is a lazy and derogatory slur that 9/10 has no substance of truth.


Posted on behalf of a mate

[metalhead]

Brigitte Gabriel, a Lebanese-born Christian was hounded out of her home by Muslims, along with so many others that Christians, once having comprised the majority in Lebanon, now form only about 25%.

I know its not about a topic, but thats just BS, the reason there are few christians than of before because of the civil war which led to many people leave the country, plus muslims growing twice as more than christians in the country. You can say the samething about christians kicking muslims out of their house in leb, and the other way around (all happened in the civil war by the way).

[account deleted by request]

Brigitte Gabriel, a Lebanese-born Christian was hounded out of her home by Muslims, along with so many others that Christians, once having comprised the majority in Lebanon, now form only about 25%.

I know its not about a topic, but thats just BS, the reason there are few christians than of before because of the civil war which led to many people leave the country, plus muslims growing twice as more than christians in the country. You can say the samething about christians kicking muslims out of their house in leb, and the other way around (all happened in the civil war by the way).

[url=http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Lesson-of-Lebanon-Lost,-Once-Free-and-Prosperous-(and-54%-Christian)---EurArabia-Next?&id=1983130]LINK[/url]

Not so sure mate.....


Posted on behalf of myself (and google)

[metalhead]

S@int, thats a bull article mate, she is one of them christian lebanese who are anti-muslim, grew up hating muslims, we have some of them here, I know a few of my mates getting targeted by some of those nut cases. its not a ''christian lebanon'', its a secretarian lebanon, it always has been and always will be. the PLO not only targeted christians, they targeted muslim shia in the south when they entered, they actually f*cked the country up. Thats why you had a muslim group fighting the Palestinians as well during the civil war. She also fails to describe the christian attrocities on a Palestinian refugee camp called Sabra and Chatila back in 1982! so its both sides commiting the attrocities!

I don't think the percentage of christians in the country is lower either, if it was I would be sure that Hizballah would have won the elections last summer!

[account deleted by request]

Fair enough mate, I will stick to posting on behalf of, and forget about google

[andy_g]

a serious issue both in the social and forum discussion aspects of this situation is the over eagerness to pigeonhole people because of their stance. quickly the argument becomes too focussed on what people 'are' rather than what the issues are. maybe this is intentional, as by arguing against the stance of a person or a group we don't have to think too much any more about the complexity of the matter in question.

the slightest hint that you might be against the islamicisation of the west and you are a racist.
the slightest hint that you might be prepared to consider the needs of all the parties involved and you are a 'bleeding heart liberal'.
the slightest hint that a muslim might be unhappy with his or her lot in the west and they are a potential terrorist.

etc etc etc etc

its not really very constructive

[account deleted by request]

a serious issue both in the social and forum discussion aspects of this situation is the over eagerness to pigeonhole people because of their stance. quickly the argument becomes too focussed on what people 'are' rather than what the issues are. maybe this is intentional, as by arguing against the stance of a person or a group we don't have to think too much any more about the complexity of the matter in question.

the slightest hint that you might be against the islamicisation of the west and you are a racist.
the slightest hint that you might be prepared to consider the needs of all the parties involved and you are a 'bleeding heart liberal'.
the slightest hint that a muslim might be unhappy with his or her lot in the west and they are a potential terrorist.

etc etc etc etc

its not really very constructive

Middle of the road, fence sitting b@stard   

[andy_g]

oh yeah, forgot that one

[Bad Bob]

Andy's spot on, though.  There needs to be more middle of the road fence sitting barstewards in these discussions in order to keep some important things in perspective.  One thing I just can't bring myself to sit on the fence about though, is this idea the SIOE have that there's no such thing as a moderate Muslim (as posted by S@int's "mate").  If that's truly what they believe then, I'm sorry, they're not worth wasting a discussion on.  Complete and utter tool pieces.

[Big Niall]

i despise all religions equally.

However, it is something we have to learn to live with as seems programmed into the majority of people who have ever lived that they need some type of god or multiple gods/spirits etc.

however, it should be kept at home or in the local church. it should be stripped out of school.

religious  schools segregate their children from non believers and it allows myths to grow.