Liverpool FC Forum

[metalhead]

Lando your comment about islam is just a load of shyte.. Seems like you have a problem with the religion rather than the extremists using their twisted interpretation. What you mentioned stating we don't want this we don't want that... Did some mullah come to convert you or something lool... 

No it isn't. If I don't want to adopt their ways, why should I? Should I be forced to pretend that I agree with some backwards philosophy which teaches that women are second-class citizens, alcohol is banned, you must pray X amount of times per day, you must starve yourself for Ramadan, etc, etc, etc.

It's all a load of cobblers. It serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever and no God worth following would want people to waste their lives with that kind of crackpot behaviour, in my very honest opinion.

backward philosophy? treat women as a second class citizen? loads of tosh that is mate, no disrespect, but thats b*llox. You have no idea what Islam is. Its not the religion that treats women to be below men, this has been before Islam even emerged! back in the dark ages in the Middle East, where there were bedouen tribes and villages scattered all over the desert in the gulf region, where women were not treated equally, ask any historian and he will tell you this. Infact Islam puts women and men together they teach you to respect the other gender and to care. However, most of you watch the news, look at Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan  etc... then assume that women are treated like sh!te because of Islam. This is a cultural aspect, not a religious aspect which has been there for a long long and long time. You have no idea what Ramadan means do you as well? Lando, sometimes you really need to educate yourself about other types of religion before you go on posting comments that are wrong and doesn't show any understanding on the religion type (Islam).

I'm not even a religious muslim, I drink alot of fanta (barry ), like to , like to go to clubs and bars. However, I do follow certain codes of my religion, which I respect because I understand their meanings and they serve for the good of humanity, not the other way around.

No, I don't need to educate myself about Islam, because I have no desire to know anything about it.

Is alcohol not banned?

Do you not starve yourselves for Ramadan? (I know it's meant to teach patience and spirituality, and that it's a way of asking for forgiveness for their sins, etc. If it were me and I were nutty on Islam, I would not commit any sins throughout the year and carry on eating - is that an option?)

Are women not treated like 2nd-class citizens? (No matter the reason, it's the way of things in Muslim countries. If the religion said "women and men are equal", that bearded dustbin c*nt wouldn't treat them like sh*t, because no interpretation of the religion would come to that conclusion.

If it ordered that women and men were equal, women would be allowed to make eye contact, speak to outsiders, show more than their eyes, etc, etc, etc.)

I haven't just imagined this - it's how it is.

The religion on the whole is full of goodness and light. It's just a pity it's unlikely to be real.

Shows you lack the knowledge to fully understand the Muslim world. Its not the way of things in Muslim countries, the UAE is a muslim country but women are treated the same, they work they go out and they can freely do whatever they want. Qatar, Bahrain, all the same. Its not how it is, your just imagining it because of some news reportor  on TV or cr@p.

Ramadan doesn't relieve you of your sins, the pilgrimage to mecca does (and I hope you didn't get that information from wikipedia). Its not only about fasting, its way more than that, in Ramadan you help the poor, you become the poor (by fasting till the evening) you learn patience and you give charity. Its doing a good deed.

[NANNY RED]

My husband is Muslim, an i am not a second class citerzin. my husband drinks , swears , an does exacly the same thigs i do an im Catholic, He detests all these off there head fanatics just as much as the next fella, He understands all religions an respects peoples views, an the relgion that they follow,

[Sabre]

Shows you lack the knowledge to fully understand the Muslim world. Its not the way of things in Muslim countries, the UAE is a muslim country but women are treated the same, they work they go out and they can freely do whatever they want. Qatar, Bahrain, all the same. Its not how it is, your just imagining it because of some news reportor  on TV or cr@p.

Ramadan doesn't relieve you of your sins, the pilgrimage to mecca does (and I hope you didn't get that information from wikipedia). Its not only about fasting, its way more than that, in Ramadan you help the poor, you become the poor (by fasting till the evening) you learn patience and you give charity. Its doing a good deed.

It's a respectable religion, and the Ramadan has a lot of similarities with the Christian Lent period. In Christianity, at least what I've been taught, it's not the most important thing not to eat flesh in certain days, but rather, the idea of becoming the poor you somehow have described.

I disagree Lando in the way he describes other religions. And I doubt aswell this debate is about religion, it seems to me a problem of coexistence caused by some extremists. Some extremists that use a pretext, this time it can be religion, but tomorrow it can be a Russian mafia. That won't make all the russians bad neither, and these problems shouldn't make all muslims bad.

[Big Niall]

it is funny the way people always  think muslims are hard core muslims. I've gone to the pub with a couple of musllims (and I only know a few).

It is like saying catholics don't have sex before marriage - yeah, right.

[metalhead]

My husband is Muslim, an i am not a second class citerzin. my husband drinks , swears , an does exacly the same thigs i do an im Catholic, He detests all these off there head fanatics just as much as the next fella, He understands all religions an respects peoples views, an the relgion that they follow,

imagine nanny a second class citizen wearing the burka....


''don't look into her eyes''



 

[Sabre]

it is funny the way people always  think muslims are hard core muslims. I've gone to the pub with a couple of musllims (and I only know a few).

It is like saying catholics don't have sex before marriage - yeah, right.

There are sins i'll never ask forgiveness for. 

[LFC2007]

LFC, I don't want to join this debate but I want to clarify something.

What do you think the aim of 'Stop the Islamisation Of Europe' is?

I think UK, like Spain, is a non-denominational state, is this right?

And I think UK, like Spain, is a country that provides freedom of creed (sp?), that is, their citizens have the right to have whatever the creed they want (including no creed at all). Is this right?

Two different questions, mate. In the first you're asking whether the UK is a secular state or not, and the answer is in simple terms, no it isn't. That's mainly because the C of E is endorsed by the constitution - more specifically (and in particular) in the legislative process; the Queen is the official head of state as well as the Church, while the Lords spiritual sit in the HoL (the latter looks set to change). So, technically speaking it is, but in actuality the Church's constitutional role is limited mainly to ceremony and counsel. 

The second is a straightforward yes - like every other EU member state.

So, how can be possible an islamic state? I mean, right now, the fact that most people are christians doesn't avoid that Uk is a non-denominational state. I wanted to clarify these doubts, but I'm not sure the words are correct, hope you get my drift.

Well, in theory, Britain could become a jedi state, a klingon state, or a wookiee state. For that transformation to take place there would have to be a monumental shift in society to the extent that you wouldn't be able call it a realistic suggestion. Admittedly, the possibility of Britain adopting Islam as its state religion in the foreseeable future would figure slightly higher up on the scale of likelihood, but unrealistic it most certainly is. As with the possibility of a future jedi state, it would require a monumental shift in society in so many ways - centuries of political and ceremonial convention would need to be abolished.

That's why, when the BNP and affiliated groups make those sorts of assertions, very few people can take them seriously.

[Sabre]

Cheers mate.

[Lando_Griffin]

Edited.

[Lando_Griffin]

Edited.

[Lando_Griffin]

Edited. Sorry for any offence caused.

[LFC2007]

As for Ramadan - why should you have to do that? Why should you fast? It's another case of causing people to suffer in the name of religion. Yes, they feel good once completed, but what about the fat kid who can't resist a Penguin bar during Morning break? How's he going to feel?

I'm not saying that it isn't for a good cause. I'm not saying I can't see the virtue in it.

What I am saying is I don't think it's right, and I don't want it ramming down my throat at every God-given opportunity.

Who's ramming it down your throat at every opportunity?

You mightn't think it's normal, mate, but surely you can accept that people hold radically different interpretations of the world to your own? And, if those practices aren't interfering with your own life (how could they?), then surely you shouldn't have a problem?

[Madmax]

Ramadhan is not just about hunger or trying to grasp the feelings of the poor its more than that. Its a way of connecting with god spiritually. You fast yes to avoid food and drink but also you fast so you could stop commiting sins and become more god conscious. Its a time when one reflects on his life and ponders on his existence and servitude to god. In this month many holy scriptures were sent out to mankind and many other prophetic incidents occured.
The belief in the holy books is that the devil is shackled in this month so one has the time to ignore ill thoughts and try to implement a better life. With this one month reflection on ones life after ramadhan many people change their ways and become better individuals. So its more than being hungry!

About praying 5 times a day... Not a waste of time... Takes only a few mins and is a powerful connection with god... Also majority participate in charity work so i guess its double rewards..

BTW i've just touched the surface on islamic knowledge so just learning atm.. I'm muslim btw.. Mix race and have become more interested in it!

[Lando_Griffin]

As for Ramadan - why should you have to do that? Why should you fast? It's another case of causing people to suffer in the name of religion. Yes, they feel good once completed, but what about the fat kid who can't resist a Penguin bar during Morning break? How's he going to feel?

I'm not saying that it isn't for a good cause. I'm not saying I can't see the virtue in it.

What I am saying is I don't think it's right, and I don't want it ramming down my throat at every God-given opportunity.

Who's ramming it down your throat at every opportunity?

You mightn't think it's normal, mate, but surely you can accept that people hold radically different interpretations of the world to your own? And, if those practices aren't interfering with your own life (how could they?), then surely you shouldn't have a problem?

Like I said, I have no problem with any race/religion provided they don't try to change my life to fit in with theirs.

By the same token, I have my own views on each religion and I misguidedly thought that this was a reasonable place to air them. It obviously isn't, and all that this discussion will result in is my offending someone without meaning to.

I don't mind offending people by calling them a "c*nt".

I won't offend someone for the sake of it, though.

Again - as far as I am concerned, everyone can do whatever they like, provided it doesn't interfere unduly with me and mine.

And I am truly sorry if my views on religion and immigration have offended anyone. I just find it difficult to rationalise many of the practices and new laws - I accept that this is my own problem and I shouldn't disparage such things simply because of it. I do not have a problem with any of the nations of Europe and would happily visit each and every one of them as I believe they are all so different to Britain and would offer new, individual experiences.

I could even find it in my heart to like a Man Utd fan...

[Lando_Griffin]

Oh, and just to make it clear, I posted no racist/homophobic/xenophobic slanderous commets - I am just deleting my own views on religion as I don't want to upset anyone who adheres to those faiths.

Before anyone decides to try and get me banned for something they think I might do.