Liverpool FC Forum

[neil]

PART of the wreckage from Air France flight AF447, which went down when travelling from Rio de Janeiro to Paris flight June 1, 2009, has been found at the bottom of the ocean. The French government reports that large parts of the fuselage, the engines and even identifiable bodies, still strapped into their seats, have been found nearly four kilometres down in an area known as the mid-ocean ridge, preserved by the freezing temperatures.

One important discovery is that oxygen masks had not deployed in the cabin, indicating that the plane had not lost pressurization before it hit the water.

According to France’s transport minister, Nathalie Kosciusco-Morizet, the bodies will be raised in the coming weeks.

This search, which began on March 18, is the fourth attempt to find the aircraft, which crashed with 228 people on board.

The discovery raises hopes that investigators will be able to recover the missing black boxes that could explain why the Airbus A330-200 crashed.

The Bureau of Investigation and Analysis (BEA) has said that the priority is still finding the black boxes, although the man in charge of the recovery operation, Alain Bouillard, has said that there is no way of knowing what state they will be in, as there has never been a case in which they have remained undiscovered for so long. The black boxes only send out a signal for one month after the accident.

The search is being paid for by Air France and Airbus, who have invested some €20m.

Both companies have been charged with the involuntary manslaughter of the 216 passengers and 12 crew members on board.



source


Blimey fancy it taking 2 years to find the plane, obviously very difficult area to search.

[7_Kewell]

needle in a haystack....that area is HUGE and difficult to cover...imagine the Alps...make them twice as big and put them underwater.

Now try and find a plane broken into a million pieces with a blindfold on.

Sad story, and i hope they find out why it crashed....because i'm pretty sure no one knows. 

[laza]

The thing I remember about that tragedy was story of Italian woman who missed the flight and cheated death. Only to die a few days later in car crash in Austria, talk about final destination

[neil]

they have found the second black box, we should discover what caused the crash now. Big well done to the teams that got there in the end.

linky

[Greavesie]

Christ everythings getting found atm...

Maddie's next

[tubby]

The thing I remember about that tragedy was story of Italian woman who missed the flight and cheated death. Only to die a few days later in car crash in Austria, talk about final destination

That's freaky!

[metalhead]

they have found the second black box, we should discover what caused the crash now. Big well done to the teams that got there in the end.

linky

great news, lets hope it never happens again.

[Reg]

They said at the time the navigation sensors had frozen over and the plane went into a dive which teh auto pilot didn't correct as it didn't realise there was a problem. The real crime was that it wasn't the first time this problem had occurred nor been rectified and that 2 weeks later another AirFrance plane on the same route had a similar problem in the same area and they still did nothing. The families of the Brazilians lost on the flight really kicked up a stink at the time and I think more information was forthcoming down in Brazil than was publicised in europe.

[Reg]

Air-France-Flight-447-will-all-be-revealed.html

Link

[neil]

what happened to AF 447

I just read the above piece, seems possible that there might have been survivors after the plane hit the sea 

[metalhead]

what happened to AF 447

I just read the above piece, seems possible that there might have been survivors after the plane hit the sea 

Its a sad state of affairs really. Even if they know what happened, nothing can be done to ease the families' pain who lost their loved ones in the plane.

[neil]

French accident investigators have criticised a newspaper for reporting that flight recorders from the fatal 2009 Air France crash showed human error was to blame.

Le Figaro, a French daily, said one of the so-called black boxes had already yielded enough information to conclude that the crash was not caused by a fault in the Airbus aircraft, but did not explain how the conclusion was reached.

The BEA air accident investigation agency said on Tuesday that it was too early to draw any conclusions on what caused flight 447 to crash over the Atlantic after departing Rio de Janeiro in Brazil for Paris, killing all 228 people on board.

The agency, which managed to transfer all the data stored in the recorders hauled up from the seabed two weeks ago, said it was confident that the cause of the crash would be found.

BEA said the retrieval of data from the black boxes "make us almost entirely certain today that all light will be shed on this accident".

The transfer, which was carried out at the weekend and filmed in front of investigators from four countries and French judicial officials, is the most important breakthrough yet in efforts to find out what caused the crash.

Experts say it will take several weeks to analyse the data, with a report expected to be issued in the summer.

"This work will take several weeks, after which a further interim report will be written and then published during the summer," the BEA said.

Le Figaro, in a report on its website, had said the BEA would focus on whether Air France or the crew bore any responsibility for the crash in light of alleged evidence suggesting the aircraft was not at fault.

It said the BEA would reveal new information about the role of Air France and the crew on Tuesday, possibly allowing a clear picture of the crash circumstances to emerge by the end of the week.

Meanwhile, forensics experts from France's police force are examining tissue samples from two bodies that were raised from the plane's site earlier this month.

Nearly 60 bodies were recovered two years ago, shortly after the accident, but experts need to determine whether the DNA from the two bodies retrieved is still intact before they make a decision about the other remains.

source

[neil]

it starting to look like pilot error, early indications here suggest an airbus telex was circulated yesterday to allay any fears of having to ground planes due any plane mechanical problem.

[neil]

Accident to the Airbus A330-203
flight AF 447 on 1st June 2009
Update on Investigation
www.bea.aero
27 May 2011
SPECIAL FOREWORD TO ENGLISH NOTE
This note has been translated and published by the BEA to make its reading easier for Englishspeaking
people. As accurate as the translation may be, the original text in French should be
considered as the work of reference.
History of Flight
On Sunday 31 May 2009, the Airbus A330-203 registered F-GZCP operated by Air France was
programmed to perform scheduled flight AF447 between Rio de Janeiro Galeão and Paris
Charles de Gaulle. Twelve crew members (3 flight crew, 9 cabin crew) and 216 passengers
were on board. Departure was planned for 22 h 00(1).
At around 22 h 10, the crew was cleared to start the engines and to leave the parking space.
Take-off took place at 22 h 29. The Captain was PNF, one of the co-pilots was PF.
The take-off weight was 232.8 t (for a MTOW of 233t), including 70.4 t of fuel.
At 1 h 35 min 15 , the crew informed the ATLANTICO controller that they had passed the
INTOL point then announced the following estimated times: SALPU at 1 h 48 then ORARO at
2 h 00. They also transmitted the SELCAL code and a test was undertaken successfully.
At 1 h 35 min 46, the controller asked the crew to maintain FL350 and to give their estimated
time at TASIL.
At 1 h 55, the Captain woke the second co-pilot and said "[…] he’s going to take my place".
Between 1 h 59 min 32 and 2 h 01 min 46 , the Captain attended the briefing between the
two co-pilots, during which the PF said, in particular "the little bit of turbulence that you just saw
[…] we should find the same ahead […] we’re in the cloud layer unfortunately we can’t climb much
for the moment because the temperature is falling more slowly than forecast" and that "the logon
with Dakar failed". The Captain left the cockpit.
The airplane approached the ORARO point. It was flying at flight level 350 and at Mach 0.82
and the pitch attitude was about 2.5 degrees. The weight and balance of the airplane were
around 205 tonnes and 29% respectively. Autopilot 2 and auto-thrust were engaged.
At 2 h 06 min 04, the PF called the cabin crew, telling them that "in two minutes we should enter
an area where it’ll move about a bit more than at the moment, you should watch out" and he
added "I’ll call you back as soon as we’re out of it".
(1)All times
are UTC.
At 2 h 08 min 07 , the PNF said "you can maybe go a little to the left […]". The airplane began a
slight turn to the left, the change in relation to the initial route being about 12 degrees. The level
of turbulence increased slightly and the crew decided to reduce the speed to about Mach 0.8.
From 2 h 10 min 05 , the autopilot then auto-thrust disengaged and the PF said "I have the
controls". The airplane began to roll to the right and the PF made a left nose-up input. The stall
warning sounded twice in a row. The recorded parameters show a sharp fall from about 275 kt
to 60 kt in the speed displayed on the left primary flight display (PFD), then a few moments
later in the speed displayed on the integrated standby instrument system (ISIS).
Note 1: Only the speeds displayed on the left PFD and the ISIS are recorded on the FDR; the speed
displayed on the right side is not recorded.
Note 2: Autopilot and auto-thrust remained disengaged for the rest of the flight.
At 2 h 10 min 16, the PNF said "so, we’ve lost the speeds" then "alternate law […]".
Note 1: The angle of attack is the angle between the airflow and longitudinal axis of the airplane.
This information is not presented to pilots.
Note 2 : In alternate or direct law, the angle-of-attack protections are no longer available but a
stall warning is triggered when the greatest of the valid angle-of-attack values exceeds a certain
threshold.
The airplane’s angle of attack increased progressively beyond 10 degrees and the plane started
to climb. The PF made nose-down control inputs and alternately left and right roll inputs. The
vertical speed, which had reached 7,000 ft/min, dropped to 700 ft/min and the roll varied
between 12 degrees right and 10 degrees left. The speed displayed on the left side increased
sharply to 215 kt (Mach 0.68). The airplane was then at an altitude of about 37,500 ft and the
recorded angle of attack was around 4 degrees.
From 2 h 10 min 50, the PNF tried several times to call the Captain back.
At 2 h 10 min 51 , the stall warning was triggered again. The thrust levers were positioned
in the TO/GA detent and the PF maintained nose-up inputs. The recorded angle of attack, of
around 6 degrees at the triggering of the stall warning, continued to increase. The trimmable
horizontal stabilizer (THS) passed from 3 to 13 degrees nose-up in about 1 minute and
remained in the latter position until the end of the flight.
Around fifteen seconds later, the speed displayed on the ISIS increased sharply towards 185 kt;
it was then consistent with the other recorded speed. The PF continued to make nose-up
inputs. The airplane’s altitude reached its maximum of about 38,000 ft, its pitch attitude and
angle of attack being 16 degrees.
Note: The inconsistency between the speeds displayed on the left side and on the ISIS lasted a little less
than one minute.
At around 2 h 11 min 40 , the Captain re-entered the cockpit. During the following seconds,
all of the recorded speeds became invalid and the stall warning stopped.
Note: When the measured speeds are below 60 kt, the measured angle of attack values are considered
invalid and are not taken into account by the systems. When they are below 30 kt, the speed values
themselves are considered invalid.
The altitude was then about 35,000 ft, the angle of attack exceeded 40 degrees and the vertical
speed was about -10,000 ft/min. The airplane’s pitch attitude did not exceed 15 degrees
and the engines’ N1’s were close to 100%. The airplane was subject to roll oscillations that
sometimes reached 40 degrees. The PF made an input on the sidestick to the left and nose-up
stops, which lasted about 30 seconds.
At 2 h 12 min 02, the PF said "I don’t have any more indications", and the PNF said "we have
no valid indications". At that moment, the thrust levers were in the IDLE detent and the
engines’ N1’s were at 55%. Around fifteen seconds later, the PF made pitch-down inputs. In
the following moments, the angle of attack decreased, the speeds became valid again and the
stall warning sounded again.
At 2 h 13 min 32, the PF said "we’re going to arrive at level one hundred". About fifteen seconds
later, simultaneous inputs by both pilots on the sidesticks were recorded and the PF said "go
ahead you have the controls".
The angle of attack, when it was valid, always remained above 35 degrees.
The recordings stopped at 2 h 14 min 28. The last recorded values were a vertical speed of
-10,912 ft/min, a ground speed of 107 kt, pitch attitude of 16.2 degrees nose-up, roll angle of
5.3 degrees left and a magnetic heading of 270 degrees.
New findings
At this stage of the investigation, as an addition to the BEA interim reports of 2 July and 17
December 2009, the following new facts have been established:
ˆˆ The composition of the crew was in accordance with the operator’s procedures.
ˆˆ At the time of the event, the weight and balance of the airplane were within the operational
limits.
ˆˆ At the time of the event, the two co-pilots were seated in the cockpit and the Captain was
resting. The latter returned to the cockpit about 1 min 30 after the disengagement of the
autopilot.
ˆˆ There was an inconsistency between the speeds displayed on the left side and the integrated
standby instrument system (ISIS). This lasted for less than one minute.
ˆˆ After the autopilot disengagement:
„„the airplane climbed to 38,000 ft,
„„the stall warning was triggered and the airplane stalled,
„„the inputs made by the PF were mainly nose-up,
„„the descent lasted 3 min 30, during which the airplane remained stalled. The angle of
attack increased and remained above 35 degrees,
„„the engines were operating and always responded to crew commands.
ˆˆ The last recorded values were a pitch attitude of 16.2 degrees nose-up, a roll angle of
5.3 degrees left and a vertical speed of -10,912 ft/min.

[metalhead]

Yeh just read it that, I didn't understand most of it, what I understood that the airbus stalled and there was some inconsistencies in the speed that made the airbus stall.

I don't get the inconsistencies in speed though