Sabre wrote:Bamaga man wrote:What's your take on Gibraltar, LFC2007 (or others if they want to join?)
This isnt my opinion, infact I remember reading another forum, LFC. And a few members actually live and work there. So here is there opinon, I've heard several like it before.
Written by Sem, from TalkLFC.
Nice and civil, gents. I like it.
For the record, I've spent the last 20 years of my life living in Spain. The last 17 of those years I've worked in Gibraltar. So I dare say I'm qualified to comment on the subject.
Spain, no matter what people say, is still a very backward country. Until the current generation (or possibly the next) of politicians, generals, Guardia Civil leaders die out, there will be very little progress. The Spaniards themselves recognise this.
And it's attitude to Gibraltar is disgusting. Fact. There have been years of border queues of up to one/two hours to either enter or exit gib. Now that Spain have been allowed to use the Gibraltar airport, these queues suddenly disappear.
Ask anyone from from the other side of the border what they think about Madrid's stance on the issue, and you wouldn't get a polite reply. The cause of all this resentment has always come from some little ponce sat in an office in madrid who probably couldn't find Gib on a map.
Another quick fact: the Guardia Civil hate serving in the Basque country due to the obvious problem: ETA.
The next worst place they hate being sent to? The border with Gibraltar due to all the grief they get from Gibraltarians and Spaniards alike for follwing orders they don't agree with.
In that post there's some truth, and some bóllocks.
Needless to say staying 1000Km away from the Gibraltar borderline, influences quite much the view of the matter (I live in the north). And it's a fact there has been and there is some *minor* conflicts in the borderline. I have friends there, but the problem is not much more than some insults, and some flags showing in world cups. It was a hell lot worse decades ago, and in the big picture, the foreign relation of the two nations it has improved a lot
Until 1975, we had a dictatorship, and it's a fact removing some of the old generals, and deadwood wasn't made from the night to the morning, very quickly. As much as everybody would love doing that quickly, transition to a democracy is a delicate matter to deal with.Spain, no matter what people say, is still a very backward country
Well I reckon there is and there will be lots of Spains, you have the modern Spain, and you'll have also what we call the Deep Spain, and that will be always that because Spain is different.
But the country as a whole has improved a lot in the last 20 years, and I reffer not to my opinion, but to the official economical and social facts that third parties do about the countries of the world. No doubt there's a Deep England aswell, and the odd English working class man giving his opinion with a beer pint in the hand about foreign countries, but that will exist always aswell.
Sabre, in Britain Gibraltar is not really considered a major issue any more. The inhabitants of Gibraltar have the right to self-determination, they have their own democracy and although external issues are dealt with by the U.K. e.g. their accession to the E.U. , internal issues are dealt with by the people of Gibraltar.
Although they still have a Governor who represents the British Monarchy, they have elected officials who, as of 2006, have procured more of these powers.
The people of Gibraltar don't want joint Sovereignty with Spain, they want the right to determine their own future, and that's exactly what they have. Britain has gradually handed over more and more sovereignty to the people of Gibraltar, although it still remains part of the U.K. in a wider E.U. context.
I think even if the Spanish government doesn't give up it's claim for sovereignty in Gibraltar, they recognise that it's the people of Gibraltar who should decide their own future (self-determination) without government officials from either Spain or Britain interfering and striking a deal above their heads.
On the point of the Schengen treaty, Britain is signed up to it on an official level but is not part of it's regulations. We have our own common travel area between Britain and Ireland. Nonetheless I don't see this as a major problem for Britain or Gibraltar.
To sum up, I think it's a 300 year old claim for Sovereignty that is a non-issue. The inhabitants of Gibraltar have their own unique culture, slightly different from mainland Spain, and it would be crazy for Governments from either Britain or Spain to go above the people of Gibraltar to decide their future. Like I said, in recent times under the Blair Gov't, the people of Gib. have decided democratically that they want the right to decide their own future.
But in all fairness it shouldn't be an issue Sabre, it's an area of 3 square miles, with a small population. Let them live, forget about 300 years ago and the history of Franco etc. They will decide their own future and that's the way it should be.
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