Liverpool FC Forum

[Homebooby]

I'm with Dawson with this and he is correct about the economics of film production.

Small films are risky in that many of them don't turn a profit. If it becomes a cult hit then the distributors will eventually turn a profit from DVD and tv sales. However, a lot of small films lose money. Small films are usually financed from the profits of blockbusters. If these profits go down, small films suffer.

Who here thinks downloading Lost is piracy? You could argue that its shown for free on tv, so downloading it is "free".

In actual fact, its not. The production of Lost is financed directly and indirectly by advertising. The American company which makes it sells it to European tv networks in order to make money from it. These European tv networks in turn make money off Lost from advertising time. However, if a lot of people download it from the internet while it is running in America there is a potential ripple effect of European viewing figures going down because people have already seen it.

I say "potential" because its only a drop in the ocean at the moment, but say, in 10 years time we'll all probably have 250Mbit broadband connections where an episode can be downloaded almost incidentally (or streamed) and people will watch US shows at their leisure from their computer, without the ads. This WILL effect shows like Lost. The producers will say sod it, and won't bother.

The arguement that "we are being ripped off" is a bit immature. If you think a DVD is too expensive, don't buy it. Its a simple as that. Nobody is putting a gun to your head. However, that doesn't give you the licence to go out and nick it.

People can't have it both ways. Shop around and buy it - legally - as cheap as possible but if you don't like the price then don't buy it.

Its a bit like saying, Mercedes cars are a rip off and too expensive, I'll steal one from a showroom, test drive it, and return it if I don't like it, but I'll keep it if I do.

I agree again with your sentiment JBG, but I refer to a previous point that in order to overcome some of these issues, use the technology you have available to you.

Why release something in the US months before the rest of the world, then do the same with the DVD? The same goes for TV shows. There are more economics there that aren't being taken into account in your argument.

I am not saying you are morally wrong. I just don't think that industry operates with the best morals either.

[Homebooby]

Dawson is in essence correct...stealing is stealing. You take something that is released for sale without paying anything for it, then you have stolen the product.

Your whole post is fair and correct. And well explained. Anyway, will you accept that I'm half stealing? When I buy a cd of weezer, I get a cd, the cover, and all that. When I get a game, I get the cds, the instructions and some nice stuff such keys to play online.

So I don't think by downloading a bunch of bytes that btw are not for sale but being shared I'm stealing the whole product.

I think you are being a little economical with the definition of what is on sale. Those bits and bytes contain the product or perhaps a year or more work for the band, producer, etc etc. The format in which it is distributed is irrelevant. The contents are copyrighted and made available to you in exchange for your cash.

I would say that the packaging that you don't receive with it is an acceptable loss on your behalf for the fact that you aren't giving anything for it.

I am not strictly against downloading, although I do find that my appreciation and enjoyment in seeking out and discovering something new has all but vanished. This is combined with the apathy that the majority of the dross that is served out daily is a blatant rehash of something that has come before.

[Sabre]

Correct. Anyway, one thing that pisses me off is that we are talking about the industry all the time. INdustry has the right to defend what is theirs, but sometimes, it seems that they talk in behalf what's good to music, and musicians.

And I do know many musicians that never got the support of the industry. So Industry has rights? yes they have, but they cannot talk on behalf all the musicians or the music. And here at least, they do. Campaigns like "Piracy is killing music" are shown in TV. Not quite. Perhaps their industry, not the music.

[115-1073096938]

Correct. Anyway, one thing that pisses me off is that we are talking about the industry all the time. INdustry has the right to defend what is theirs, but sometimes, it seems that they talk in behalf what's good to music, and musicians.

And I do know many musicians that never got the support of the industry. So Industry has rights? yes they have, but they cannot talk on behalf all the musicians or the music. And here at least, they do. Campaigns like "Piracy is killing music" are shown in TV. Not quite. Perhaps their industry, not the music.

You're english is improving.

[Sabre]

You're english is improving. 

You are getting more and more kind. That worries me.

[Lando_Griffin]

Well as far as record/film companies go, I would recommend the following:


STOP REGIONALISING EVERYTHING, DROP YOUR PRICES, AND STOP EXPECTING KIDS WITH £5 PER WEEK TO SPEND, TO SAVE UP FOR A F*CKING ALBUM THEY CAN DOWNLOAD FOR FREE.


It's the regions that p*ss me off. They say it's to control the releases - why? What's the point?
F*ck the Region 1/2/3, etc off and start giving the paying public the credit they deserve.



They treat us all like scum, but it's us who sustain their penny-pinching Mafia.

B*stards.

[115-1073096938]

You're english is improving. 

You are getting more and more kind. That worries me.

Its since you posted you're picture on here the other day...

[66-1137139704]

I never buy albums anymore. The music industry have been ripping us off for years and now its payback. Its hardly as if they dont make money anymore, mainstream music stars are still richer then most of us will ever be.

I bet they cry themselves to sleep in their mansions and jumbo jets.

well said 

[Judge]

everyone is entitled to make money from business, providing it is recognised and legal.

even if companies are making large sums, so what, folk are only jealous that they didnt think of it first. While i disagree that companies shouldn't sting the public with high prices, i dont think downloading is the answer, as you are stealing copyright.

It would be interesting to see how many on here have actually downloaded music and computer games illegally and then sold them on at car boot sales for their own profit

[66-1137139704]

everyone is entitled to make money from business, providing it is recognised and legal.

even if companies are making large sums, so what, folk are only jealous that they didnt think of it first. While i disagree that companies shouldn't sting the public with high prices, i dont think downloading is the answer, as you are stealing copyright.

It would be interesting to see how many on here have actually downloaded music and computer games illegally and then sold them on at car boot sales for their own profit

if the cake is big enuff,then everyone should have a piece.

even the rats and roaches

[Sabre]

even if companies are making large sums, so what, folk are only jealous that they didnt think of it first. While i disagree that companies shouldn't sting the public with high prices, i dont think downloading is the answer, as you are stealing copyright.

You are right about one thing, Judge. There's always envy with the people that thrives, evolve, and earn money. THere are always jealous people like that.

But it's not my case. I respect people that gets rich through HARD work (by hard I mean not only farmers, but also office men that work honestly). But is that the industry of music? IMHO music is an art, has lots of influence in the youth and it shouldn't be only what it is right now, a load of cráp.

[dawson99]

hey all,
ive actually got a little gripe to make, and im sorry if i upset anyone but mi gonna say it anyway. Downloading films and albums is wrong. You are taking money away from the people who make the movies and albums.

Get a life Dawson lad.

Jesus, Leon having a go at me even in general chat.

Leon, why im saying this is that myself and a lot of my friends are in the film business on a part time basis and cannot get anything made anymore as there is no money. but thanks for your wise input 

[JBG]

Breaking the law is breaking the law. If you don't like the law form a pressure group, run for member of parliament and try and have the law changed.

I think the people defending these illegalities would be the first people running to the police if some young scally keyed their car.

As Dawson has alluded to above, piracy hurts artists more than it does the corporations. The corporartions by definition will try to make a profit, they won't take the loss, they'll cut corners elsewhere to make up the balance, and that will mean less niche stuff coming out.

[Honolulu Bob]

piracy hurts

Aye, so go hard or go home!!       

Shut it JBG ya big bleedin' nonce!!
Steal what ya want I tells ya, if you don't do it some other bugger will!!
I loves a bit o' piracy an no mistake!! 

[66-1120597113]

It looks like a lot feel quite strongly about this topic!

I dont really see it as stealing and definately dont think its immoral and no-one should feel bad about doing it in my opinion!
But basically if i download a movie or C/D i do it in a try before you buy way!
In that i mean if i like what i hear or see i am likely to go out and spend money on the original!
The reason for this is i cant afford to purchase every movie or a copy of every album i think i may enjoy..
Lets face it im sure we have all bought an album that we think we may appreciate only to get it home and realise that 2 songs are decent and the rest are utter balls!
As for people saying its not fair on artists breaking through into the business,well thats balls !
If they work hard enough and have the talent people will appreciate what they do and become fans ! Fans of bands will always buy the originals if they truely are just that!
Basically i see downloading as a handy perk of technology that we should feel free to exploit in a world were we are robbed daily from high tax and the like!EVERYONE is out to make money from each of us.
There aint many freebies about so when they come along grab them with both hands!