Liverpool FC Forum

[Leonmc0708]

I'm sorry Dawson, i think you're nutz mate. Two words... fuck them. Where do they get off chargin 20 quid a dvd or 15 for an album.

Robbin bastards don't like it when we hit them back where it hurts so why should they do it to us.

What are you doing in General Chat ?

Is it because LFC Gen Disc feels like this place now anyway ?

[Leonmc0708]

hey all,
ive actually got a little gripe to make, and im sorry if i upset anyone but mi gonna say it anyway. Downloading films and albums is wrong. You are taking money away from the people who make the movies and albums.

Get a life Dawson lad.

[Mikz]

Im with you stu!
   Its really down to how much you love the actual movie -the industry etc  personally im not bothered.And altho I know its illegal, its like everyone is doing it so why not me.

  Imagine Tescos -then another shopping centre opening and saying come and shop with us -its all free ,now some of it might not be as good quality but its free Tescos would be laying a few workers off

[columbia]

I never buy albums anymore. The music industry have been ripping us off for years and now its payback. Its hardly as if they dont make money anymore, mainstream music stars are still richer then most of us will ever be.

I bet they cry themselves to sleep in their mansions and jumbo jets.

[115-1073096938]

I'm sorry Dawson, i think you're nutz mate. Two words... fuck them. Where do they get off chargin 20 quid a dvd or 15 for an album.

Robbin bastards don't like it when we hit them back where it hurts so why should they do it to us.

What are you doing in General Chat ?

Is it because LFC Gen Disc feels like this place now anyway ?

Pretty much. I've been coming in here on visits quite a bit recently. I even posted a joke... Well an attempt at one.

[115-1073096938]

I never buy albums anymore. The music industry have been ripping us off for years and now its payback. Its hardly as if they dont make money anymore, mainstream music stars are still richer then most of us will ever be.

I bet they cry themselves to sleep in their mansions and jumbo jets.

[mighty mo]

i always download and i don't care if it is ripping off wealthy artists and studios and record and TV  companies

[Sabre]

If true ? If you think I pulled that number out of my a'rse try typing "dddhouse" or "HKflix" into your search engine .Suprised that someone with your apparent savvy hasn't used the net to find the best deals available.

If true is not that I don't believe you. But that I find the internet somewhat unreliable. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.  If you get the DVDs, and those prove to be authentic, I'll believe you without doubts. I didn't mean to be disrespectful, I'm just wary of such offers. Thanks for that info, btw.

[Homebooby]

Sorry Dawson I disagree.

I won't buy that propaganda of the major companies that tells that I steal money because I download music and films.

In fact, I knew the group weezer, downloading from internet, and thus I went to a concert of Weezer and bought a couple of their disks. That would have never happened without the internet.

When a film has quality enough, I also want the CINEMA experience and  I pay 6 € in the cinema, but most of the things I download, aren't worth of it.

Discographic companies say that if those downloads weren't available they'd win more money. Not mine at least. Discographic companies were born because they had a mission to do, make available to the general public, the work of artist. Well, that's ok, but obsolete. The same way they many orchestra musicians that worked for radios (radio programs had real musicians that played as bacground) their ways are obsolete.

If they don't evolve, they'll die. They should put cheaper prices. A CD costed 3 $ one time and I thus understood a CD wit 12 song costed 24$, but when a cd costs nothing nowadays they have not considered to put a cheaper prize, because their agenda is one: MONEY.

I don't give a f*ck if they call me thief. And I don't care what ways they try to avoid downloading, it's like putting gates to the ocean.

BTW, I haven't stolen ANYTHING in my whole life.

But you have stolen, you've admitted it. Its this simple. Whenever you download a major blockbuster film that you think can live without the money, what you are in fact doing is destroying the entire industry. Now these blockbuster film companies have a set amount they can afford to lose through piracy and this money could be being spent on independant films.

but no, as long as you are ok, it doesnt matter if the upcoming writers directors and actors wont be use as it would be a gamble the companies cant afford due to this problem.

the music dillema is different. If you want the odd track or havent heard the band before then its ok by me. but thats only because i like the actual albums, not the copies

Dawson is in essence correct...stealing is stealing. You take something that is released for sale without paying anything for it, then you have stolen the product.

When it comes down to something creative like a movie or piece of music people like to create their own grey areas as do the record companies. I think the 2 issues should be kept separate.

First of all, a lot of news reports seem to fall on the side of the record company reporting statistics the cd and album sales are down by however much and downloading is to blame. There are so many factors that drive a purchase, it's almost impossible to say one way or the other what the cause of a drop could be. Such reports and statistics merely serve to implant an opinion in the subservient non-thinking, non-technical Daily Mail reading masses that all downloaders are bad and that the corporate world is innocently suffering.

We live in the MTV generation where music has increasingly become a product rather than an artistic statement. Previously 1 or 2 bands would have a sound that you would like and you would follow them avidly. now there are about 600 all producing records with the same producers and same equipment flooding the market. It breeds contempt and apathy.

Artists were previously required to put all their ideas into approx 40 mins of music to fill an LP which would mean approx 8-10 sons. Nowadays they need to fill a 72 min CD with 15+ songs. This leads to more bland, uninspired compositions.

Then they re-release the CD with bonus cds and tracks (mostly crappier versions of the final product or songs not good enough for b'sides) a few months later leaving the diehard fans who bought the cd on the first day feeling cheated.

Cds are the same price now (if not more) as they were 10, 15, 20 years ago when they come out. 3 months later you find them in a sale 1/2 price and you expect me to think that the record companies are losing out with that.

Bands were previously given several albums grace to experiment, find their sound, learn songcraft and build a fanbase before the question of their future on the label would come up. Nowdays if you don't bring in 200,000 + (or whichever figure deemed necessary) your gone before you get started. This leads the bands towards a familiar radio friendly unit shifter than an quest for something new.

I could go on an on about this and you could argue a similar case for movies as well both in the cinema and the way that they package DVD's.

Noone talks about all the extra money that these companies have generated by re-packaging old product or bringing it out on the a new format. Cd's for some bands seem to re-packaged on a bi-annual basis and hell, look at the DVD market. Compare the quality of a video to a dvd picture, there isn't a hell of a lot of difference and people a killing themselves for more dvds which are cheaper and easier to produce than the video cassette.

I haven't even gone to computers and software. What a con a lot of that is.

My point is that:

1. I have a hard time believing that these huge corporate entities really have things as bad as they make out.

2. You can only treat your audience and customers with the contempt that they have for so long before they go against you.

There will always be people that will steal, copy or whatever. I firmly believe that if industries tried to move with technology more and provide cool alternatives to the stealing option, they would still be doing fine. Look at the whole Napster case and legal downloads. How many people learned about mp3s and downloading from the whole Napster case that never had a clue before. This brought in charged downloads and they say now that it is the growth industry for music (certainly for singles).

They got big, lazy and complacent and are getting a little stung from it now. Stealing is stealing, but I don't feel sorry for those billion dollar industries. They do just fine.

[Homebooby]

i'll give you the music arguament, but ive heard from so many people in film saying that companies just cant afford to make films like donnie darko as much anymore because of the amount of money they are losing due to the priacy, and thats whats pi$$ing me off as itm eans there is less class out there to watch

well maybe if the actors took a small cut in pay, 15 mill instead of 20 mill?

[Homebooby]

The law is the law. Downloading is illegal.

Download is illegal. Right. I cannot argue that.

But I can hardly accept it kill the sales, at least in Spain, discographics and  film companies do profit every year and rising. In Spain, every single CD you buy, has a tax that reverts to the "so called" Artist organizations. In my work I have to burn 200 CD a day. IN those CDs there is nothing but OUR software. So are the companies of music stealing? IMHO, yes.

I defend the artists. And I defend them through going to concerts and to the cinema. But I have not much money to waste. When I buy something I cannot buy  cr.ap . I can't afford that. By the downloading I don't get the real product, just a cheap evaluation, if I want the real thing, or the instructions, or the concert, I pay.

I don't try to convince you, I think you're right. I Just want to let known that not all the downloaders have no sensibility towards the artists (the companies like SONY? I don't care). I do buy their products, even more now that I can evaluate and know what's good.

Downloading is piracy and piracy does kill sales. 10-15 years ago I was a massive fan of the Amiga computer system. It was hugely popular, but piracy killed it. Nobody bothered buying games as you could simply copy a game from yuor mate.

The commodore Amiga didn't die because Piracy (1). Neither did the Atari ST, or the Speccy. The 16 bit times, just passed away, as did the 8 bitters, like the Speccy or BBC Acorn.  I bought tons of Speccy games, because I first picked them in a pirate tape, and since I liked them so much, I saved the money I didn't have to buy them. I helped my father in the shop to be able to buy this games.

Sabre

(1) BTW, it's not dead. I bought  a miggy recently , and bought a couple of games in a german online shop that still is open.

Piracy DID kill the Amiga. Lucasarts, who were one of the big designers on that scene, left the Amiga market in 1993 due to piracy, even though there were a very large number of Amiga users worldwide. Within a year the majority of distributors followed and by 1995/96 Commodore were bankrupt, because the bottom fell out of the software market and Commodore couldn't sell anymore machines as a result.

It is DEAD, despite the fact that a few college students still make a couple of rudimentary games for it in their spare time. You cannot buy a new Amiga machine anymore and no new mainstream games are published, and haven't been for almost a decade.

There were other reasons as well, but Piracy killed Commodore and the Amiga.

god bless X-copy 2 

[Homebooby]

whats the difference bewteen buying a pirate film and downloading it yourself tho?

When I download, nobody makes profit. In real *piracy* though, some make profit using and abusing chinese or other humble people to make their profit. Profit made with film industry's work.

but u make a profit by saving money and they make a loss. this is a good debate but cant you see that what u r doing is wrong and illegal?

that's assuming you would have paid money to go and see it.

I know a lot of people that would happily sit and watch a copy as an alternative to Celebrity Big Celebrity I've Got a Career To Salvage, but have no intention of ever going to the cinema to watch it.

If someone could figure out a way or cloning Pringles, I'm sure that a lot of healthy minded people would be tested 

[Homebooby]

its so quiet i can hear your heart beating.

And as for your movies,its probably due to low demand that the production has gone down,not sharing.

Otherwise microsoft would have shut down a long time ago,with its products being the most pirated in the world.
But bill gates isnt complaing loudly about piracy,coz hes making enuff cash already.

All Bill Gates is interested in is getting the world using his product. He's been very successful, piracy has played a large part in that,

It's the same with viruses....bad right. Hmmm, no virus - no virus scanner

Security such TV encryption from NDS that do Sky. No piracy - no profit. They need these things to keep turning things over.

[Homebooby]

its so quiet i can hear your heart beating.

And as for your movies,its probably due to low demand that the production has gone down,not sharing.

Otherwise microsoft would have shut down a long time ago,with its products being the most pirated in the world.
But bill gates isnt complaing loudly about piracy,coz hes making enuff cash already.

mudface, are u serious or have u not read what i wrote. i will put this in the simplest way possible.

big companies have lots of money so can make there rubbish blockbusters and also the class independants.

pirate movies downloaded or brought cost the big companies lots of money.

big companies stop making the quaint indie films that wont make as mucha s they are losing more money on illegal downloads.

note the word illegal in illegal downloads.
bill gates brings out more versions than anyone, and music in single form is not the problem, its the movies im talking about so if theres no real arguament u have then shhh   

The Digital age could help these small companies in the long run. We're moving towards a day where the film itself will be digitally released to cinemas worldwide. A single download of a file can get your film shown in the local cinema. The middlemen are cut out and the world could be your lobster.

[Sabre]

Dawson is in essence correct...stealing is stealing. You take something that is released for sale without paying anything for it, then you have stolen the product.

Your whole post is fair and correct. And well explained. Anyway, will you accept that I'm half stealing? When I buy a cd of weezer, I get a cd, the cover, and all that. When I get a game, I get the cds, the instructions and some nice stuff such keys to play online.

So I don't think by downloading a bunch of bytes that btw are not for sale but being shared I'm stealing the whole product.