Conspiracy theories - Which do you believe

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Postby Emerald Red » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:13 pm

Bamaga man wrote:Wow Emerald !

It does look suspicious could these photo's not be faked though ?

Why though Emerald would they possibly put a missile pod on a plane, surely the thing would explode and cause enough damage without one of these pods.

I havent really gotten into this theory of 9/11, but thats not to say I dont believe that there could be a conspiracy theory behind it. I'm pretty open minded about this stuff.

But What would be the reasoning behind blowing up and killing their own people and trade centers though ?

Actually, no. These images have certainly not been tampered with. They couldn't be. These were taken from the live footage shown on that day. To tamper with, would obviously put a massive dent in any theory surrounding the whole thing. These images have just been cleaned up. I've seen others as the plane is just about to hit the tower, and it's clear that the anomaly underneath the fuselage exists. No AA or other passenger aircraft for that matter, has any sort of equipment underneath. But, the military variation of the craft does, it it's often used to refuel jet fighters in mid-air, and sometimes carried a mobile missile pod that can fire a Patriot or another variation of a cruise missile, used for ground forces wanting to take out a single objective.

When you think about it, modern planes are fairly lightweight. The materials used would be lighter than most that make a standard road car. Sure enough, if a single man can pull one of these massive beasts, as it has been done, then the likes of the wings, fuselage, tail, etc etc, would simple just crumple up and shred, causing only superficial damage to the outside, and parts of the inside of the buildings. From other plane crashes that have indeed hit buildings, and one in NY in particular during war time there, it seems that the parts that cause most of the damage are the engine blocks and landing gear, seeing that these are the most well built and heaviest parts of the plane. Jet fuel is engineered these days to combust extremely quickly. So in the event of a crash, it quickly burns off. At the speed those planes were going at, the initial impact on the outer wall of the building would have taken most of the brunt, and sustained the most damage. From there on in, the plane would have simple been shredded as if it were in a giant cheese grater.  Some of the steel trusses would have been compromised, if not flat out destroyed, but the supporting beams would not have, especially those in the Core. People seem to overlook the fact that this building had a huge central pillar, built with solid industrial concrete and fortified with iron beams. This thing, so they said when building it, could take the hit of a Boeing 747 and still have enough for more. People only seen the hollow-esque veneer of the buildings that looked critically damaged. You have to remember, that behind the outer walls, there were offices and halls, so a gaping hole there was always going to look bad. Worse than what it was. This is not to say that massive damage wasn't sustained. There certainly was. But not enough to topple a structure like that. Then again, I'm not an expert, but it's a fact that at least 80% of that building or more didn't take any other damage, at least non that we know of. The firemen inside those buildings, and people that were in it, have other views on that, though. There's actual documented recordings that you can hear of the firefighters inside reporting back that there were bombs going off from several floors inside the building, from above and below, and this was well after the first plane had hit.

Back to the planes hitting, if you look at the fireballs after they go in and think, how much fuel would those planes be carrying? Wouldn't it make sense if whatever fuel was left be contained within the building as it hit office walls, floors, furniture etc etc? Instead, it comes out at two separate angles for the second plane. That plane came in at a slight angle and hit one of the corners. How is it then that a massive explosion comes out directly in the middle of the face of the opposite side, and with even more energy than that of the projected exit point in conjunction to the planes entry? Surely it wouldn't continue off in another direction and through the core if it was an angle? Unless something else that had it's own trajectory  and force behind it did. If the plane continued on and punched through the other side and cause that explosion on the opposite face of the building, wouldn't it make sense to at least see part of the plane come through and not just shards of it and other things like fax machines and office chairs?

Again, these are just questions being raised. Just some things, when examined, don't make sense and need answering.
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Postby Emerald Red » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:22 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:Conspiracy theories are for the weak minded who just cannot accept that sh*t happens.

Well, some sh*t happens for a reason, Lando. There's always a reason. And when that reason has doubt, then you invariably get suspicion. That would be like finding a dead body and walking past it and saying "ah, well - sh*t happens". There is nothing wrong with having a mind of your own, other than believe what the media spoon feeds you. You're a football and Liverpool supporter. You should at least know this.
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Postby LFC2007 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:26 pm

So basically Emerald Red, you're trying to tell us how the US gov't managed to rig one of the tallest sky scrapers in the world with explosives, without anyone knowing and without anyone questioning what they were doing at the time, in what is one of, if not the most densely populated cities in America, and the rest of the world.

You can find and regurgitate info you have found on conspiracy theory websites, but as far as I'm concerned it means nothing and I certainly wouldn't call the evidence 'reliable'. There is a very strong possibility that it is bull sh!t spouted from far left websites who simply hate the U.S. gov't, which is very common.

No-one can provide a sufficient motive for the conspiracy, nobody.
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Postby 66-1112520797 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:36 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:Wikipedia, that reliable old source.

Still its better than any of your input into this thread.

:laugh:

The conspirators might have edited wikipedia!

They're all in on it!

F.uck your funny  :laugh:
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Postby 66-1112520797 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:37 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:Conspiracy theories are for the weak minded who just cannot accept that sh*t happens.

Xabi Alonso !
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Postby LFC2007 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:37 pm

Bamaga man wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:Wikipedia, that reliable old source.

Still its better than any of your input into this thread.

:laugh:

The conspirators might have edited wikipedia!

They're all in on it!

F.uck your funny  :laugh:

Everyone's in on it  :;):
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Postby The Manhattan Project » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:40 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
The Manhattan Project wrote:The "flash" appears just before the WINGS of the plane hit the building. The nose of the plane strikes the building first, thus accounting for why an impact flash appears before the main body of the plane strikes the tower.

Yes, the flash appears just before the wings of the plane hit. Thats completely obvious, I would think. And the nose of the plane doesn't make contact before those appear. You want proof? Look at these images. There also seems to be something on the underside of the plane. If it's a missile pod, I'm not sure. Nor am I going to claim it is. But it's there. And the fact that it's there, could it suggest that these planes might not have been passenger airliners?



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Image

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If video's of the second plane crashing are studied with good attention, you can see the flash (or explosion) seems to come at slightly to right of the initial nose impact point, the same side this so called pod is mounted on the plane.


The "flash" is seen for a brief second when the American Airlines plane strikes Tower One, the North Tower, a Boeing 767-223ER.

You are showing me pictures of the second plane, a United Airlines 767-222, which struck Tower Two, the South Tower. So you are posting pictures of the wrong plane. Also, you suggest it was not a passenger airline, yet the fourth picture you post clearly shows United livery.

Furthermore the very same photo shows clearly that if a missile was mounted under the plane, the nose of the SECOND PLANE would ALSO have struck the tower before the "missile".


The three photos in the red box supposedly depict some kind of "bulge" under the plane, near the wings. Well, this picture of a similar Boeing 767 clearly show that these underwing bulges are present on other planes. The reason only one appears more prominently in the photos is because one side is in light and the other in shadow.

Link

This photo of another Boeing 767 shows the wing bulge more clearly.

Link

The last two photos you show depict a white streak under the fuselage of the plane which I presume you believe is some kind of mounted weapon. Well this photo of another a United Boeing 767-222 in the exact same livery to the one on September 11th clearly show that the white streak is nothing but fuselage markings.

Link

And most conclusively, you can see in this footage, that the first sign of a "flash" when the South Tower is struck, occurs only when the nose of the plane strikes the side of the skyscraper.

Link
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Postby 66-1112520797 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:42 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:Wikipedia, that reliable old source.

Still its better than any of your input into this thread.

:laugh:

The conspirators might have edited wikipedia!

They're all in on it!

F.uck your funny  :laugh:

Everyone's in on it  :;):

Really ?
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Postby Emerald Red » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:49 pm

LFC2007 wrote:So basically Emerald Red, you're trying to tell us how the US gov't managed to rig one of the tallest sky scrapers in the world with explosives, without anyone knowing and without anyone questioning what they were doing at the time, in what is one of, if not the most densely populated cities in America, and the rest of the world.

You can find and regurgitate info you have found on conspiracy theory websites, but as far as I'm concerned it means nothing and I certainly wouldn't call the evidence 'reliable'. There is a very strong possibility that it is bull sh!t spouted from far left websites who simply hate the U.S. gov't, which is very common.

No-one can provide a sufficient motive for the conspiracy, nobody.

When you think about it, it would have been very simple to do it and over a long period of time. A building that size would take a serious amount of maintenance. I don't know how many charges it would take to do that kind of damage or bring something like that down, but in a space where work is all a distraction, and especially in NY, then sure it's possible. Dress like a maintenance worker, go in, do the job. I'm thinking if anything was planted, it would have been planted in the thing that keeps the building standing, and that's the core. In the core, I'm not sure how many there were, but there were, but there was close to 100 elevators. It would have been simple to stall one of those and get into the shaft. Weaken the core, and the whole lot come down like it did, section by section. This thing just cannot fall how it did. Think of it like a tree trunk. Would it make sense for a tree trunk to drop straight down into itself?

Here you can see the trajectory point of the second plane. Does it look as if it was going to threaten the integrity of the core in any way enough to destabilise the whole building?

Image

Anyway, no one can give a motive because no one really knows. The reasons could  likely be beyond anything that even the most imaginative theorist can think of. It could be just the simple age old reason that where there is money to be made, then there is a killing. Like, it's been what, 6 years, and who have the got over it? Who was the main man they said was responsible? Osama, right? So, where is he? And why havn't they caught him or even made more effort to get him? They went in and got Saddam, sure. And he was in a country protected by an army.
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Postby Emerald Red » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:59 pm

The Manhattan Project wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
The Manhattan Project wrote:The "flash" appears just before the WINGS of the plane hit the building. The nose of the plane strikes the building first, thus accounting for why an impact flash appears before the main body of the plane strikes the tower.

Yes, the flash appears just before the wings of the plane hit. Thats completely obvious, I would think. And the nose of the plane doesn't make contact before those appear. You want proof? Look at these images. There also seems to be something on the underside of the plane. If it's a missile pod, I'm not sure. Nor am I going to claim it is. But it's there. And the fact that it's there, could it suggest that these planes might not have been passenger airliners?



Image

Image

Image

If video's of the second plane crashing are studied with good attention, you can see the flash (or explosion) seems to come at slightly to right of the initial nose impact point, the same side this so called pod is mounted on the plane.


The "flash" is seen for a brief second when the American Airlines plane strikes Tower One, the North Tower, a Boeing 767-223ER.

You are showing me pictures of the second plane, a United Airlines 767-222, which struck Tower Two, the South Tower. So you are posting pictures of the wrong plane. Also, you suggest it was not a passenger airline, yet the fourth picture you post clearly shows United livery.

Furthermore the very same photo shows clearly that if a missile was mounted under the plane, the nose of the SECOND PLANE would ALSO have struck the tower before the "missile".


The three photos in the red box supposedly depict some kind of "bulge" under the plane, near the wings. Well, this picture of a similar Boeing 767 clearly show that these underwing bulges are present on other planes. The reason only one appears more prominently in the photos is because one side is in light and the other in shadow.

Link

This photo of another Boeing 767 shows the wing bulge more clearly.

Link

The last two photos you show depict a white streak under the fuselage of the plane which I presume you believe is some kind of mounted weapon. Well this photo of another a United Boeing 767-222 in the exact same livery to the one on September 11th clearly show that the white streak is nothing but fuselage markings.

Link

And most conclusively, you can see in this footage, that the first sign of a "flash" when the South Tower is struck, occurs only when the nose of the plane strikes the side of the skyscraper.

Link

Manhatten, mate. I'm not posting images of the wrong plane. I'm well aware that the first plane had a flash too, but there is NO other footage of that plane hitting the building. The second plane has the same flash. Why don't you just go and look at the video of it. You'll see it happen. I'm pretty sure that if more footage was taken of the first plane, and at better angles, you would more than certainly see the same anomaly underneath the plane. The fact that it's even on the second plane is questionable, nevermind the first one.
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Postby LFC2007 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:59 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:So basically Emerald Red, you're trying to tell us how the US gov't managed to rig one of the tallest sky scrapers in the world with explosives, without anyone knowing and without anyone questioning what they were doing at the time, in what is one of, if not the most densely populated cities in America, and the rest of the world.

You can find and regurgitate info you have found on conspiracy theory websites, but as far as I'm concerned it means nothing and I certainly wouldn't call the evidence 'reliable'. There is a very strong possibility that it is bull sh!t spouted from far left websites who simply hate the U.S. gov't, which is very common.

No-one can provide a sufficient motive for the conspiracy, nobody.

When you think about it, it would have been very simple to do it and over a long period of time. A building that size would take a serious amount of maintenance. I don't know how many charges it would take to do that kind of damage or bring something like that down, but in a space where work is all a distraction, and especially in NY, then sure it's possible. Dress like a maintenance worker, go in, do the job. I'm thinking if anything was planted, it would have been planted in the thing that keeps the building standing, and that's the core. In the core, I'm not sure how many there were, but there were, but there was close to 100 elevators. It would have been simple to stall one of those and get into the shaft. Weaken the core, and the whole lot come down like it did, section by section. This thing just cannot fall how it did. Think of it like a tree trunk. Would it make sense for a tree trunk to drop straight down into itself?

Her you can see the trajectory point of the second plane. Does it look as if it was going to threaten the integrity of the core in any way enough to destabilise the whole building?

Image

So you're telling me, in a city with so many people and with so many security cameras, undercover gov't agents purposely rigged the building with explosives without anyone realising. Walking past their fellow Americans, who they know are likely to die, rigging the building and then strolling out without a mark on their conscience and a smiley face. Get real FFS.


I think it's far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far more feasible, that somehow, for whatever structural reason the jet caused the tower to come down, or whatever structural weaknesses arose from the impact. Structural engineers have explained how and why the building came down, but I suppose they're also in on it?


For every major catastrophe, there will be a conspiracy theory. This one just happens to be the most absurd one of the lot.
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Postby red37 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:59 pm

How many Gallons of Kerosene would these airliners have been laden with, presuming they had only just taken to the skies..would the amount be sufficient to create major structural damage to the towers by way of conflagration. Not to mention the initial impact having at least 'some' effect on the whole procedure to begin with. Im only asking out of curiosity, and not in any way aspiring to conspire!
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Postby The Manhattan Project » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:00 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:So basically Emerald Red, you're trying to tell us how the US gov't managed to rig one of the tallest sky scrapers in the world with explosives, without anyone knowing and without anyone questioning what they were doing at the time, in what is one of, if not the most densely populated cities in America, and the rest of the world.

You can find and regurgitate info you have found on conspiracy theory websites, but as far as I'm concerned it means nothing and I certainly wouldn't call the evidence 'reliable'. There is a very strong possibility that it is bull sh!t spouted from far left websites who simply hate the U.S. gov't, which is very common.

No-one can provide a sufficient motive for the conspiracy, nobody.

When you think about it, it would have been very simple to do it and over a long period of time. A building that size would take a serious amount of maintenance. I don't know how many charges it would take to do that kind of damage or bring something like that down, but in a space where work is all a distraction, and especially in NY, then sure it's possible. Dress like a maintenance worker, go in, do the job. I'm thinking if anything was planted, it would have been planted in the thing that keeps the building standing, and that's the core. In the core, I'm not sure how many there were, but there were, but there was close to 100 elevators. It would have been simple to stall one of those and get into the shaft. Weaken the core, and the whole lot come down like it did, section by section. This thing just cannot fall how it did. Think of it like a tree trunk. Would it make sense for a tree trunk to drop straight down into itself?

Her you can see the trajectory point of the second plane. Does it look as if it was going to threaten the integrity of the core in any way enough to destabilise the whole building?

Image

Your argument is baseless and your conspiracy theory crumbled long ago on this thread.

The first tower to be struck, the North Tower was struck head on and its central core was fatally damaged. That's why when it collapsed, the central core went first and pulled the outer walls into the centre. This clear "implosion" was be seen in the footage.

Permit me to demonstrate with this hideous footage. Watch the tower fall straight down:

Link

The second tower's central core was largely intact. It was struck lower down and at a corner point. It's collapse was very different to the North Tower. The second towers outer walls (the ones destroyed when the plane exploded) buckled and the tower toppled over before the weight of the toppled section fell straight down, crushing the floors below.

Let me show you with this dreadful footage. Watch how the South Tower breaks in two then topples:


Link
Last edited by The Manhattan Project on Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby LFC2007 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:01 pm

Emerald Red wrote:Anyway, no one can give a motive because no one really knows. The reasons could  likely be beyond anything that even the most imaginative theorist can think of. It could be just the simple age old reason that where there is money to be made, then there is a killing. Like, it's been what, 6 years, and who have the got over it? Who was the main man they said was responsible? Osama, right? So, where is he? And why havn't they caught him or even made more effort to get him? They went in and got Saddam, sure. And he was in a country protected by an army.

This sums it up, no motive, no argument.
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Postby Emerald Red » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:03 pm

Oh, yeah, by the way, no 747 hit the towers. They were 767's. Different plane.
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