Liverpool FC Forum

[Judge]

stop the fog - cut down on yor CO2 emmissions

[azriahmad]

It's not just that, judge.

It's caused by mass open burning of remnants of natural forest by people who do not want to incur a lot of costs in developing these forest. Some people may have been granted a long lease to develop plantation land. First they fell all saleble trees (for their timber). Then they burn the remnant so that after all has been burnt to the ground, all they need to do is to move in the bulldozers and move out the ashes and the remaining tree roots.

This, while polluting the environment, is widespread in the island of Sumatra because enforcement is almost non-existent and the environment laws are perhaps not so developed. Anyway, most of the time, the natural wind will take the smoke towards the Straits of Malacca to a neighbouring country which is separated by sea. Their capital is on another island further away and is in no way affected by all this. So, they (the culprits) will sod any laws and just keep it up again and again.

[Judge]

same as in brazil then??

[babu]

It's not just that, judge.

It's caused by mass open burning of remnants of natural forest by people who do not want to incur a lot of costs in developing these forest. Some people may have been granted a long lease to develop plantation land. First they fell all saleble trees (for their timber). Then they burn the remnant so that after all has been burnt to the ground, all they need to do is to move in the bulldozers and move out the ashes and the remaining tree roots.

This, while polluting the environment, is widespread in the island of Sumatra because enforcement is almost non-existent and the environment laws are perhaps not so developed. Anyway, most of the time, the natural wind will take the smoke towards the Straits of Malacca to a neighbouring country which is separated by sea. Their capital is on another island further away and is in no way affected by all this. So, they (the culprits) will sod any laws and just keep it up again and again.

Not quite true. Indonesia's environmental protection laws are as good as just about anyone's. I had to study and compare their legislation recently. the problem is enforcement.

but illegal logging is not the only cause, as you have stated. the clearing for oil palm plantations is a major cause. and burning (the cheapest option) is allowed through provisions from the government. I thought it was funny how the env. minister mentioned the fact the clearing is being done by plantation owners (majority malaysian). My point however is so what if they are malaysian the indonesian government is still granting these permits to burn. they just do not seem to have a long term solution to this problem.

I don't think i'll post in this thread again as it has feck all to do with football. i was just feeling sorry for myself.

[Woollyback]

illegal logging

[112-1077774096]

It's not just that, judge.

It's caused by mass open burning of remnants of natural forest by people who do not want to incur a lot of costs in developing these forest. Some people may have been granted a long lease to develop plantation land. First they fell all saleble trees (for their timber). Then they burn the remnant so that after all has been burnt to the ground, all they need to do is to move in the bulldozers and move out the ashes and the remaining tree roots.

This, while polluting the environment, is widespread in the island of Sumatra because enforcement is almost non-existent and the environment laws are perhaps not so developed. Anyway, most of the time, the natural wind will take the smoke towards the Straits of Malacca to a neighbouring country which is separated by sea. Their capital is on another island further away and is in no way affected by all this. So, they (the culprits) will sod any laws and just keep it up again and again.

Not quite true. Indonesia's environmental protection laws are as good as just about anyone's. I had to study and compare their legislation recently. the problem is enforcement.

but illegal logging is not the only cause, as you have stated. the clearing for oil palm plantations is a major cause. and burning (the cheapest option) is allowed through provisions from the government. I thought it was funny how the env. minister mentioned the fact the clearing is being done by plantation owners (majority malaysian). My point however is so what if they are malaysian the indonesian government is still granting these permits to burn. they just do not seem to have a long term solution to this problem.

I don't think i'll post in this thread again as it has feck all to do with football. i was just feeling sorry for myself.

you started it   

[woof woof !]

I don't think i'll post in this thread again as it has feck all to do with football. i was just feeling sorry for myself.

Ah ,but how do you know they're not clearing the jungle to build a footy stadium ? ahhhh ! now it's got everything to do with footy ,guess you'll have to post again .

      

[babu]

Yeah yeah, what i meant to say was i am sick of moaning about cause there is nothing anyone can do.

this was announced 30mins ago: A state of emergency has been declared.

Malaysia under haze emergency
   
 
Aug 11, 2005

Malaysia has declared a state of emergency as the air pollution index soared  to extremely hazardous levels on the west coast.
   
The area is the worst-hit by smoke from fires from Indonesia, an official said.
   
"We are now in a state of emergency," a National Security Council official said after the environment department announced that the index had reached 529 in the shipping centre of Port Klang and 531 in the coastal town of Kuala Selangor.
   
The government said yesterday levels above 500 would trigger a state of emergency.
   
The National Security Council official said that although only the two west coast locations had exceeded 500, the measures would extend to the whole of the Klang valley in which the capital Kuala Lumpur sits.
   
They will include closing schools, advising citizens to stay indoors or wear masks outside, and even beginning rain-seeding in an effort to wash away the dust and smoke hanging in the air.
   
In Kuala Lumpur the index reached 321, shrouding the city in a yellowish mist and making the tops of buildings disappear. In the administrative capital of Putrajaya which lies further towards the coast the index recorded 364.
   
The opposition Democratic Action Party (DAP) said Malaysians were "furious and worried" about the pollution and that it would mount a protest at the Indonesian embassy on tomorrow as well as a public rally on Sunday.
   
"As the source of haze is in Sumatra, Malaysians are powerless to do anything to fight this threat to their and our children's health and safety unless Indonesia is serious about taking action," said DAP leader Lim Kit Siang.
   
Lim said that recent apologies from Indonesian leaders were meaningless unless they were followed up by concrete action to douse the fires on the Indonesian island of Sumatra and prevent them from recurring.
   
"Malaysians want an explanation why the Indonesian government cannot stop the haze from becoming a tragic annual event," he said.
   
But Foreign Minister Syed Hamid Albar indicated Malaysia would take a softly-softly approach, in order not to damage the fragile relationship with its neighbour.
   
Hundreds of schools in Kuala Lumpur and surrounding districts were ordered to close until Monday because of the worsening haze, which is causing a spike in asthma attacks and respiratory conditions.

[112-1077774096]

advising citizens to stay indoors

   
The opposition Democratic Action Party (DAP) said Malaysians were "furious and worried" about the pollution and that it would mount a protest at the Indonesian embassy on tomorrow as well as a public rally on Sunday.
 

typical malaysia, advise citizens to stay indoors and the call for a public rally     

[Woollyback]

advising citizens to stay indoors

   
The opposition Democratic Action Party (DAP) said Malaysians were "furious and worried" about the pollution and that it would mount a protest at the Indonesian embassy on tomorrow as well as a public rally on Sunday.
 

typical malaysia, advise citizens to stay indoors and the call for a public rally     

an indoor public rally, perhaps.

maybe at the local village hall with light refreshments available?   

[112-1077774096]

advising citizens to stay indoors

   
The opposition Democratic Action Party (DAP) said Malaysians were "furious and worried" about the pollution and that it would mount a protest at the Indonesian embassy on tomorrow as well as a public rally on Sunday.
 

typical malaysia, advise citizens to stay indoors and the call for a public rally     

an indoor public rally, perhaps.

maybe at the local village hall with light refreshments available?   

maybe satay and soya milk   

[Woollyback]

no umbongo? pfft, i'm not coming then

[Judge]

illegal logging

is that where you have a secret sh'it in some police stations private staff only toilet without asking them