Liverpool FC Forum

[tubby]

You keep forgetting to put IN YOUR OPINION when you say people where wrong about things because it isnt fact it is off course just your opinion .

Exactly.

Mick- You were wrong to think Roy could steady the ship, you were wrong to think Roy's arm round the shoulder approach could improve things, you were wrong to think he could get the team playing better, you were wrong to think Rafa should have been sacked without a proper replacement. Wrong, wrong wrong. 

[Benny The Noon]

They were wrong about rotation, wrong when they said he was the new Shankly, wrong when they said we were "progressing" season by season, wrong when they said he should have stayed, and wrong when they say he should come back now. At least they are consistent.

I wonder if the Inter fans will buy into the "bottle of milk" mallarkey or whether they are beginning to think they have made an almighty feck up. It's one thing finishing 7th and then getting a new bloke in who also finishes about 7th, it's quite another when you win five league titles on the bounce, win the Champions League and the new bloke comes in and fecks it up. Never mind about some people not being able to spot a priest in a bowl of sugar or whatever the feck it was, if Rafa doesn't pull his finger out those that love him will be adding "but we don't have to pay any com-pen-say-shun" to the list of reasons why we should go backwards.

Second in the table - still prob going to advance in the CL to the knockout stages .

Think that suggests that the Inter fans will be fine with the way things are going - its not like he has had the team in the relegation zone or anything , or been beaten by a team at the bottom level of the league or being totally outplayed by local rivals .

You keep forgetting to put IN YOUR OPINION when you say people where wrong about things because it isnt fact it is off course just your opinion .

to be fair Benny if Carlton Palmer was manager at Inter they would probably be 2nd and doing well in the CL 

[tubby]

They were wrong about rotation, wrong when they said he was the new Shankly, wrong when they said we were "progressing" season by season, wrong when they said he should have stayed, and wrong when they say he should come back now. At least they are consistent.

I wonder if the Inter fans will buy into the "bottle of milk" mallarkey or whether they are beginning to think they have made an almighty feck up. It's one thing finishing 7th and then getting a new bloke in who also finishes about 7th, it's quite another when you win five league titles on the bounce, win the Champions League and the new bloke comes in and fecks it up. Never mind about some people not being able to spot a priest in a bowl of sugar or whatever the feck it was, if Rafa doesn't pull his finger out those that love him will be adding "but we don't have to pay any com-pen-say-shun" to the list of reasons why we should go backwards.

How come you are so worried about Inter mate? 

Although I was upset at coming 7th it was plain to see it was always on the cards. Years of having to shop with a 1 in 1 out policy meant that we were never able to build strength in depth and with so much money going on the interest we missed out quite a few quality players who had we got we might not had go through so many others.

Also i noticed you failed to mention the match fixing scandal. Credit to Inter for winning it so many times but lets face it, they were helped out massivly by their biggest 2 rivals being either relegated or docked points.

[dawson99]

They were wrong about rotation, wrong when they said he was the new Shankly, wrong when they said we were "progressing" season by season, wrong when they said he should have stayed, and wrong when they say he should come back now. At least they are consistent.

I wonder if the Inter fans will buy into the "bottle of milk" mallarkey or whether they are beginning to think they have made an almighty feck up. It's one thing finishing 7th and then getting a new bloke in who also finishes about 7th, it's quite another when you win five league titles on the bounce, win the Champions League and the new bloke comes in and fecks it up. Never mind about some people not being able to spot a priest in a bowl of sugar or whatever the feck it was, if Rafa doesn't pull his finger out those that love him will be adding "but we don't have to pay any com-pen-say-shun" to the list of reasons why we should go backwards.

Second in the table - still prob going to advance in the CL to the knockout stages .

Think that suggests that the Inter fans will be fine with the way things are going - its not like he has had the team in the relegation zone or anything , or been beaten by a team at the bottom level of the league or being totally outplayed by local rivals .

You keep forgetting to put IN YOUR OPINION when you say people where wrong about things because it isnt fact it is off course just your opinion .

to be fair Benny if Carlton Palmer was manager at Inter they would probably be 2nd and doing well in the CL 

[Bad Bob]

Although I was upset at coming 7th it was plain to see it was always on the cards. Years of having to shop with a 1 in 1 out policy meant that we were never able to build strength in depth and with so much money going on the interest we missed out quite a few quality players who had we got we might not had go through so many others.

See, this is where I disagree.  IN MY OPINION, 7th wasn't always and inevitably on the cards.  We made heavy work out of just about everything last season and had a very disappointing campaign on all fronts but there was no inevitability to it.  We had enough quality in the squad to get higher than 7th in the league, get further than the Group Stages of the CL and get past the likes of Reading in the FA Cup.  Financial restraints were of course there, a sell before you buy policy was of course a hindrance but we still had a squad that could and should have achieved much more than it did.  We were unlikely outsiders to win the league, I'll grant you, but we should have been right in the mix for the CL places and good bets for going further in the various cups than we did.  To suggest otherwise, IN MY OPINION, is to make untenable excuses for a season of sustained under-performance.

[Benny The Noon]

Good work Bob

I think everyone knows last season wasnt good enough - it was poor from start to finish and there was nothing really positive to get out of the season . Poor results , poor form , poor player purchases , injuries to vital players , - everything that did go wrong went wrong

The question is ( yes i know another question ) was it a one off season OR was it the start of a downward spiral

Last season was the first season where the majority on forums were starting to go against the manager because of results

The previous season before it was because of rotation or a certain player etc but the results were still coming through .

Did Rafa deserve to be given the chance to rectify that one poor season , did he deserve the chance to work under a new management , did he deserve the chance to able to work under a situation where he didnt have to sell to buy and could actually build a squad ?

For me off course the answer is yes - im pretty sure the answer will be split 50/50 around forums - for the most last season tainted Rafa beyond repair , and that will never go away no matter what happened the previous seasons . We are even getting people playing down what he did at Istanbul

[Big Niall]

but it is true that it's only after Hamann came on that the game changed isn't it and it's also true that that change was forced on Rafa. It's also a fact that in the final 2 years later Rafa fecked up by not playing Crouch.

You know, one of the things that makes me laugh most when I read stuff like this (which crops up way more than you'd imagine around here) is the failure to account for the big picture.  'The critical Hamann switch was forced on him,' 'we got lucky that Milan switched off,' 'Rafa dropped a bollo.ck by leaving Crouch on the bench' etc. etc. gets trotted out like we were whisked through a worm hole into two Champions League finals and poor, bumbling Benitez found himself out of his depth.  It would be nice if people could acknowledge that, in each case, we had to play a fair few games to make it to these finals, beating a few good teams along the way.  Either Rafa's got a horseshoe the size of the Arc de Triomphe up his backside or he's by and large a bl.oody good tactician when it comes to the cut and thrust of European cup football.

Can we agree that while we were lucky to get past the group stages (last minute goal against the greeks), we were brilliant in the knock outs so Rafa deserves lots of credit for that (as in 2007) but he made a big mistake in final, but that the gods were with us (remember dudak save in the last minute from schevchenko?).

Overall - I think he was a great C.L manager, probably a great manager iin the european leagues, but not so much the english league (a bit like morientes as a player)

[Big Niall]

lol..theres always room for wookie porn


I really do want Rafa to do well, but not to the point where i actually care, when id ratehr see how Liverpool are doing

Thats the problem in a nutshell - you and prob a few others think and believe that some people would rather Inter do well than Liverpool do well - yet im pretty sure every single liverpool fan on here would rather Liverpool do well first and foremost BUT would also like to see our previous manager do well as long as it doesnt effect ourselves .

if inter were playing LFC and you were there would you sing some rafa song?

I think it would be out of order to do so as it undermines the current manager (whether you think he is the right choice or not).

[Benny The Noon]

lol..theres always room for wookie porn


I really do want Rafa to do well, but not to the point where i actually care, when id ratehr see how Liverpool are doing

Thats the problem in a nutshell - you and prob a few others think and believe that some people would rather Inter do well than Liverpool do well - yet im pretty sure every single liverpool fan on here would rather Liverpool do well first and foremost BUT would also like to see our previous manager do well as long as it doesnt effect ourselves .

if inter were playing LFC and you were there would you sing some rafa song?

I think it would be out of order to do so as it undermines the current manager (whether you think he is the right choice or not).

Read my post correctly and it answers your question

[Benny The Noon]

but it is true that it's only after Hamann came on that the game changed isn't it and it's also true that that change was forced on Rafa. It's also a fact that in the final 2 years later Rafa fecked up by not playing Crouch.

You know, one of the things that makes me laugh most when I read stuff like this (which crops up way more than you'd imagine around here) is the failure to account for the big picture.  'The critical Hamann switch was forced on him,' 'we got lucky that Milan switched off,' 'Rafa dropped a bollo.ck by leaving Crouch on the bench' etc. etc. gets trotted out like we were whisked through a worm hole into two Champions League finals and poor, bumbling Benitez found himself out of his depth.  It would be nice if people could acknowledge that, in each case, we had to play a fair few games to make it to these finals, beating a few good teams along the way.  Either Rafa's got a horseshoe the size of the Arc de Triomphe up his backside or he's by and large a bl.oody good tactician when it comes to the cut and thrust of European cup football.

Can we agree that while we were lucky to get past the group stages (last minute goal against the greeks), we were brilliant in the knock outs so Rafa deserves lots of credit for that (as in 2007) but he made a big mistake in final, but that the gods were with us (remember dudak save in the last minute from schevchenko?).

Overall - I think he was a great C.L manager, probably a great manager iin the european leagues, but not so much the english league (a bit like morientes as a player)

The year is 2007 and little bluenose Duncan is talking to his bluenose Dad.

SON “Dad, my mates in school told me that Liverpool won the European Cup for the 5th time in 2005 – are they right dad?

DAD “Yes SON , it’s true, but they were dead lucky SON , all the way through the tournament”

SON “Why dad?”

DAD “Well in the group stages …..”

SON “What dad, did they have a team from Azerbaijan, Israel, and Ireland in their group?”

DAD “Well no, they had Monaco, Deportivo la Coruna, and Olympiakos”

SON “Well they still sound like 3 easy teams to me dad”

DAD “Actually Monaco reached the final the year before, Olympiakos had won their league 7 times out of the previous 8 seaSON s, and Deportivo finished above the galacticos of Real Madrid in their league”.

SON “Jeez dad, that sounds like quite a difficult group then”.

DAD “yeh I suppose your right SON , but they were still lucky – it took a mishit shot by Gerrard against Olympiakos to get through”.

SON “oh is that the goal were your hero Andy Gray goes berserk shouting “you beauty, you beauty, what a hit SON , what a hit!!!!”

DAD “yes SON it is”

SON “oh ok. Well what happened in the last 16 dad, who did they draw?”

DAD “Bayer Leverkusen”

SON “Bayer who?”

DAD “Exactly SON , but they had beaten Real Madrid 3-0 at home, and won their group that included Dinamo Kiev and Roma too.”

SON “bloody hell dad, they sound good”.

DAD “yes, I suppose you’re right SON ”

SON “so did they win on away goals or something”

DAD ”errrrr, no, they won both legs 3-1 each”

SON “oh – well who next then dad”

DAD “Juventus”

SON “How the f#ck did they get past them Dad?”

DAD “Well they did – they won 2-1 at home, and cruised to a 0-0 away draw without Juve having hardly any chances”.

SON “were Juve sh#t at that time – had all their decent players gone or something?”

DAD “well actually they still had players like Del Piero, Nedved, Ibrahimovic, Thuram, and Buffon in the side. And they won Serie A a few weeks later.”

SON “wow, they beat the Italian champions elect – which easy team did they get in the semi then?”

DAD “Chelsea”

SON “Chelsea – for f#cks sake – what a easy draw – they’ve won nothing, Everton have won more than them”.

DAD “well that seaSON they won the Premiership and League Cup but the Red didn’t let them score in 180 minutes of football”

SON “Jesus Christ – so Liverpool beat the English Champions elect too”

DAD “yes SON , they bloody well did”.

SON “so after all that I suppose all the good teams had been knocked out”

DAD “not quite SON , AC Milan awaited them in the final”

SON “no way – aren’t they the 2nd most successful team in the competition’s history”.

DAD “yes SON they are”

SON “so were Liverpool lucky because Milan had all their good players out with injuries”

DAD “no – they had Shevchenko, Crespo, Maldini, Nesta, Cafu, Kaka, Stam, Dida, Gattuso, Pirlo, and Seedorf”.

SON “your ‘avin a laff”

DAD “it gets worse SON , Milan were cruising 3-0 up at half-time”.

SON “what happened, did they have 3 men sent off in the second half – how did Liverpool get back into the game?”

DAD “no, Milan had no men sent off, the Red scored 3 goals in 6 minutes”

SON “against the best defence in Europe”

DAD “yes!!!, against the best defence in Europe”

SON “so what happened next - extra time?”

DAD “yes SON , and Dudek made the luckiest save ever to stop a Shevchenko shot from a yard”

SON “why was it lucky dad – did it hit him on the , nose, shoulder or something”

DAD “no SON , his hand”

SON “well aren’t goalies meant to save shots with their hands”

DAD “yeah but that’s besides the point”

SON “then what”

DAD “penalties!”

SON “English teams are at penalties”

DAD “not this f#ckin time they weren’t – they only missed one. And that’s how Liverpool became the luckiest team to win the European Cup”.

SON “but I bet when they brought the cup home there was hardly anyone to watch as all Liverpool fans live anywhere but Liverpool you say. How many was there, 5,,000 or so?”

DAD “1 million people lined the streets”.

SON ”so let’s get this straight dad – Liverpool had 3 good teams in their group, they then knocked out a team who had beaten Real Madrid 3-0, they then knocked out the future Serie A champions, then knocked out the future Premiership champions, before coming back from 3-0 down to beat the 2nd most successful club in Europe. And then the whole population of Liverpool came out to welcome them home!!!!

DAD “that about sums it up SON ”

SON “dad?”

DAD “yes SON ”

SON “can I have a Liverpool shirt for my birthday next week, and can you stop calling me Duncan – I’m Stevie from now on”

[Greavesie]

sorry but was Finnan injured in Istanbul? I've only read the page where it was discussed by the way, sorry if this was cleared up earlier. As far as I was aware Hamman came on and we played 3 at the back. I've never heard that Finnan was injured that night, I'm sure Gerrard's book doesn't emntion it either  

It's not a massive deal I know but if you asked me I'd have said with 90% certainty that it was a substituion to reduce the 3:0 deficit

[Big Niall]

Good work Bob

I think everyone knows last season wasnt good enough - it was poor from start to finish and there was nothing really positive to get out of the season . Poor results , poor form , poor player purchases , injuries to vital players , - everything that did go wrong went wrong

The question is ( yes i know another question ) was it a one off season OR was it the start of a downward spiral

Last season was the first season where the majority on forums were starting to go against the manager because of results

The previous season before it was because of rotation or a certain player etc but the results were still coming through .

Did Rafa deserve to be given the chance to rectify that one poor season , did he deserve the chance to work under a new management , did he deserve the chance to able to work under a situation where he didnt have to sell to buy and could actually build a squad ?

For me off course the answer is yes - im pretty sure the answer will be split 50/50 around forums - for the most last season tainted Rafa beyond repair , and that will never go away no matter what happened the previous seasons . We are even getting people playing down what he did at Istanbul

for me it was just annoying because I couldn't understand what he was doing.

we had a tight budget and he spent it all on a very injury prone player and a full back that cannot defend. We probably could have bought Tevez for that money and got some makeshift full back (centre forward is always more important).

Also - the puzzled look on SG face when Torres was taken off in a game we needed to win and were drawing (birmingham I think) and Torres just shrugging .

It was just pure madness.

[Benny The Noon]

sorry but was Finnan injured in Istanbul? I've only read the page where it was discussed by the way, sorry if this was cleared up earlier. As far as I was aware Hamman came on and we played 3 at the back. I've never heard that Finnan was injured that night, I'm sure Gerrard's book doesn't emntion it either  

It's not a massive deal I know but if you asked me I'd have said with 90% certainty that it was a substituion to reduce the 3:0 deficit

He was injured - Rafa was bringing off Traore to bring on Hamann but then Finnan was injured so he came off instead and kept Traore on

[Big Niall]

lol..theres always room for wookie porn


I really do want Rafa to do well, but not to the point where i actually care, when id ratehr see how Liverpool are doing

Thats the problem in a nutshell - you and prob a few others think and believe that some people would rather Inter do well than Liverpool do well - yet im pretty sure every single liverpool fan on here would rather Liverpool do well first and foremost BUT would also like to see our previous manager do well as long as it doesnt effect ourselves .

if inter were playing LFC and you were there would you sing some rafa song?

I think it would be out of order to do so as it undermines the current manager (whether you think he is the right choice or not).

Read my post correctly and it answers your question

I know you would cheer for LFC but would you sing a rafa song?

[Benny The Noon]

lol..theres always room for wookie porn


I really do want Rafa to do well, but not to the point where i actually care, when id ratehr see how Liverpool are doing

Thats the problem in a nutshell - you and prob a few others think and believe that some people would rather Inter do well than Liverpool do well - yet im pretty sure every single liverpool fan on here would rather Liverpool do well first and foremost BUT would also like to see our previous manager do well as long as it doesnt effect ourselves .

if inter were playing LFC and you were there would you sing some rafa song?

I think it would be out of order to do so as it undermines the current manager (whether you think he is the right choice or not).

Read my post correctly and it answers your question

I know you would cheer for LFC but would you sing a rafa song?

No because he is the opposing manager