Liverpool FC Forum

by **66-1112520797** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:19 pm

How can a man like Mclaren be England manager, after he managed one club previously ?

With that too he did a prett.y s.hit job, surely there were better managers out there with the credentials.

UNBELIEVABLE :angry:

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:23 pm

I wonder if we do have the players or have they just been built up by the media to such an extent that we just accept it as a fact.

Even Henry and Van Nistleroy, arguably the best two strikers in the EPL over the last few years, both flopped at the WC.
Gerrard and Lampard, the best midfield players in the world according to some, both flopped at the WC.
Terry and Ferdinand our world class defenders couldnt defend setpieces and looked shaky at best at the WC.

Which players from the EPL had a good world cup? Hargreaves probably Englands biggest success plays in Germany, and not one player from the EPL plays for the winners Italy. The stars of the WC all ply their trade abroad.

While I admit the England manager doesnt inspire me with confidence, maybe he doesnt have as much talent to work with as we are all led to believe.

Maybe SKY have got us all believing the Emperors wearing new clothes.

by **weringo** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:39 pm

s@int wrote:I wonder if we do have the players or have they just been built up by the media to such an extent that we just accept it as a fact.

Even Henry and Van Nistleroy, arguably the best two strikers in the EPL over the last few years, both flopped at the WC.
Gerrard and Lampard, the best midfield players in the world according to some, both flopped at the WC.
Terry and Ferdinand our world class defenders couldnt defend setpieces and looked shaky at best at the WC.

Which players from the EPL had a good world cup? Hargreaves probably Englands biggest success plays in Germany, and not one player from the EPL plays for the winners Italy. The stars of the WC all ply their trade abroad.

While I admit the England manager doesnt inspire me with confidence, maybe he doesnt have as much talent to work with as we are all led to believe.

Maybe SKY have got us all believing the Emperors wearing new clothes.

I wouldnt agree with that, everyone can see the quality players we've got we just need a world class manager as well. Gerrard, Terry, Ashley Cole and Rooney are all players I would think would get on to any team in the world, and Ferdinand, Owen, Joe Cole and Hargreaves are all top quality players.

I would love to see someone like Wenger (not rafa coz hes ours) take the England manager job as I think he would have the England players playing quality football they are capable of not the Bolton-style long ball tactics we have been using in the last few years. Wenger said himself that him becoming England manager one day in the future would be a possibility

by **66-1112520797** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:44 pm

s@int wrote:I wonder if we do have the players or have they just been built up by the media to such an extent that we just accept it as a fact.

Even Henry and Van Nistleroy, arguably the best two strikers in the EPL over the last few years, both flopped at the WC.
Gerrard and Lampard, the best midfield players in the world according to some, both flopped at the WC.
Terry and Ferdinand our world class defenders couldnt defend setpieces and looked shaky at best at the WC.

Which players from the EPL had a good world cup? Hargreaves probably Englands biggest success plays in Germany, and not one player from the EPL plays for the winners Italy. The stars of the WC all ply their trade abroad.

While I admit the England manager doesnt inspire me with confidence, maybe he doesnt have as much talent to work with as we are all led to believe.

Maybe SKY have got us all believing the Emperors wearing new clothes.

I believe with the English lads there isnt a togetherness when they leave their clubs to play for there country. There all still representing there clubs and the rivalry is still there, FFS Carragher & Neville getting on, do me a favour. Since Gerrards turned his back on Chelsea, Terry & Lampard arent constantly hugging him before and after games. I dont think the English boys can get that out the way (club rivals), if you watch Italy, Germany or France when they play, they play as a team and there looks like theres the togetherness.
I mean, that Kunt Ronaldo got Rooney sent off in the WC, and everyone and there dog thought Rooney would of given him a knuckle sandwich back in Mancester. Thats probably down to old red nose he didnt, but still its club before country with the English players I think, and throw in the ex-ginger (nothing against gingers) Manc, and theirs the recepe for disaster.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:57 pm

Bamaga man wrote:
s@int wrote:I wonder if we do have the players or have they just been built up by the media to such an extent that we just accept it as a fact.

Even Henry and Van Nistleroy, arguably the best two strikers in the EPL over the last few years, both flopped at the WC.
Gerrard and Lampard, the best midfield players in the world according to some, both flopped at the WC.
Terry and Ferdinand our world class defenders couldnt defend setpieces and looked shaky at best at the WC.

Which players from the EPL had a good world cup? Hargreaves probably Englands biggest success plays in Germany, and not one player from the EPL plays for the winners Italy. The stars of the WC all ply their trade abroad.

While I admit the England manager doesnt inspire me with confidence, maybe he doesnt have as much talent to work with as we are all led to believe.

Maybe SKY have got us all believing the Emperors wearing new clothes.

I believe with the English lads there isnt a togetherness when they leave their clubs to play for there country. There all still representing there clubs and the rivalry is still there, FFS Carragher & Neville getting on, do me a favour. Since Gerrards turned his back on Chelsea, Terry & Lampard arent constantly hugging him before and after games. I dont think the English boys can get that out the way (club rivals), if you watch Italy, Germany or France when they play, they play as a team and there looks like theres the togetherness.
I mean, that Kunt Ronaldo got Rooney sent off in the WC, and everyone and there dog thought Rooney would of given him a knuckle sandwich back in Mancester. Thats probably down to old red nose he didnt, but still its club before country with the English players I think, and throw in the ex-ginger (nothing against gingers) Manc, and theirs the recepe for disaster.

Thats a good point about players being club first Bamanga ,I remember a few years ago they had that problem in Holland ,with the players from Ajax being very unpopular with the rest of the squad.

Then again Owen and Gerrard always seem too interested in England for me.

Players like Neville and Carra who there is no doubt in my mind are club then country, I could never see getting on together.

Perhaps thats why we need a good manager, to bind them together into a team but also to encourage them to play football not play for themselves.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:33 am

The club before country debate is so incorrect. I've read Gerrard's autobiography, and he waxes lyrical about Fat Frank, "JT" and totally kisses Gary Neville's Manc a*se.
Apparantly, they are all really good mates.

The fact of the matter is this:

England are sh*t, and but for a few notable exceptions, the players are poor when pitted against the technically superior foreigners.

Here's a moot point for you all to deliberate:

I personally think John Terry is an average defender, made to look better than he really is by the quality around him at Sh*tski. He scores goals, but only because he can head th eball well. That is his only top-drawer ability - his heading.

He only ever covers for Carvalho. He just tonks the ball clear after someone else has made the tackle.
He is a glory-boy, and when he's placed alongside ANOTHER glory boy (Ferdinand), we're asking for trouble.

Before anyone jumps on the "You know nothing..." bandwagon - think about it this way:

The Premiership is renowned as being the most aerially demanding league in the World, and the top centre-backs need to be able to cope.

So why the f*ck did "JT" and Drug-boy look like a pair of girls trying not to get their hair wet during the World Cup?

IMHO, it's because they're both pansies, waiting for each other to make the telling contribution. They are also FAR too overrated by the cockney and Manc loving Media.

Get JC in there with Terry, and we'd have a partnership.

Better still, drop the cockney tw*t and bring in King, who is a faster version of Sami. They'll show the poofs how it's done.

by **112-1077774096** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:58 am

frank lump o lard was a disgrace in this game, how long will it take before the people that matter realise how poor he is

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:11 am

peewee wrote:frank lump o lard was a disgrace in this game, how long will it take before the people that matter realise how poor he is

The day the Media turn against that tub of lard (Obviously the week before McClaren drops the chubby tw*t), will be the day Satan skips to work in a thong and stockings.

The fact that most football fans (and everyone at the FA, seemingly) base their opinions on what they read in the paper that sounds like a male child, but is infact a steaming pile of horse sh*t, means that the average person won't realise he's cack until the imbecilic reporters grow a pair of nads and write the truth.

So, peewee - forever, basically.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:18 am

They are talking about bringing Reo - Coker into the team ,and bringing back Beckham

Not that they are getting desperate or anything but Beckham? One things for certain if Reo-Coker gets a game it wont be inplace of our friend Fat Frank.

by **zarababe** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:37 am

England were absolutely :censored:

, with a manager who has presided over mediocity. Rubbish and embarassing that was

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:32 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
peewee wrote:frank lump o lard was a disgrace in this game, how long will it take before the people that matter realise how poor he is

The day the Media turn against that tub of lard (Obviously the week before McClaren drops the chubby tw*t), will be the day Satan skips to work in a thong and stockings.

The fact that most football fans (and everyone at the FA, seemingly) base their opinions on what they read in the paper that sounds like a male child, but is infact a steaming pile of horse sh*t, means that the average person won't realise he's cack until the imbecilic reporters grow a pair of nads and write the truth.

So, peewee - forever, basically.

Satan may just be sliding that thong on Lando!

From Soccernet today:

Time to be Frank
Richard Jolly

When separating Samuel Eto'o and Ronaldinho in the voting for the best player on the planet in 2005, what was Frank Lampard thinking?

Odd man out? Lampard in exalted company at 2005's FIFA World Player award.

That this was more a figment of his imagination than reality, or that this was where he belonged? That he was the world's finest footballer, or that he could barely believe his remarkable ascent himself? That there was an air of permanence about his new-found status, or that he should savour the occasion for its rarity value?

The suspicion is that, rather than being taken aback by the speed of his ascent among the echelon of the outstanding talents, there was a presumption that such accolades could become an annual event for him.

Four years earlier, Frank Lampard would not have rated a mention for a place in the world's top 200; after an almost unprecedented improvement from an established player, he came second only to Barcelona's Brazilian in the polling.

The 2006 award may go to Ronaldinho or Fabio Cannavaro. It is a certainty that it won't be adorning Lampard's mantelpiece.

With his Latin GCSE, the Chelsea midfielder should understand the phrase annus horribilis (though the words 'mea culpa' don't seem to have crossed his lips during an extended slump). It is a fair description of his year. If the World Cup represented the nadir for Lampard, a Wednesday night in Zagreb showed his dominant best is descending into distant memory.

Against Croatia, Steve McClaren configured his England team with Lampard in mind.

With Scott Parker primed to provide the industry and Michael Carrick the ammunition, this was a midfield with Lampard at the apex, given licence to advance and cap his 50th appearance for his country with a goal. He never threatened to.

Given the onus to excel as the senior member of an inexperienced midfield, he was arguably the most ineffective performer. For the fourth successive Euro 2008 qualifier, Lampard played poorly.

By sacrificing David Beckham, McClaren dodged a decision about Lampard, hiding behind Rafael Benitez's frequent use of Steven Gerrard on the right flank as a reason to deploy the Liverpool captain there. When England reconvene - whether for November's friendly against the Netherlands or March's qualifier in Israel - judgment on Lampard cannot be postponed any longer.

For Lampard's apologists, his heavy-legged performances can be explained by three seasons in which he scored 65 goals in 200 games for club and country.

They are astonishing statistics and, given the pace and intensity of the modern game, unlikely to be equalled by a player balancing the needs of international football, the Champions League and a difficult domestic campaign. The facts alone don't reveal that, in that time, Lampard improved almost every facet of his game.

In 2006, seemingly, each has declined. It is easiest to judge Lampard by his goalscoring and a record of five in 15 this season is more than respectable, if inflated by penalties and deflections. But his passing, which had developed far beyond expectations, has lacked both incision and imagination.

While always shot-happy, he seems willing to completely forego beating a defender to take aim at the first possible opportunity. As was illustrated in the World Cup, this has not been a successful policy.

Indeed, in a tournament where many reputations were consolidated or enhanced, few had theirs damaged as much as Lampard. Now, his continued malaise means that, when all are available, McClaren should field an entirely different quartet in midfield to the trio mired in mediocrity in Zagreb with Aaron Lennon and Joe Cole flanking Gerrard and Owen Hargreaves.

There is a decision, too, for the man who has been Lampard's staunchest advocate. Jose Mourinho is credited with convincing the midfielder he could become the world's best. His place in the Chelsea side is unquestioned, not least because Lampard is far from alone in failing to replicate his club form on international duty. Nonetheless, there has been a depreciation in his displays for Chelsea.

It has come at a time of increased competition. Michael Essien, seemingly the most vulnerable, has responded superbly. Michael Ballack's greater flexibility and tactical awareness were apparent in his deeper role for Germany at the World Cup.

Early season injuries to Joe Cole and Arjen Robben, meanwhile, have deprived Chelsea of width and Mourinho of a selection dilemma. So, too, has Ballack's suspension after his dismissal against Liverpool. When that ends, the Portuguese will have a wealth of midfield options; it will be instructive if Lampard maintains his status among the untouchables then.

For England, he should not.

His case is hardly helped by his adherence to the culture of excuses to which recent England teams have subscribed.

There is a sense that, along with several of his international team-mates, he appears to believe he should be exempt from criticism. Closer acquaintance with Lampard - via his autobiography - has hardly endeared the midfielder to a wider audience. The feeling, it appears, is mutual. He is now widely derided as 'fat Frank'; while others think he should shed excess pounds, Lampard is probably keener to rid himself of that unwanted tag

It was his weighty contribution, for both Chelsea and England, that propelled him into contention for the World Player of the Year award last time.

The speed and extent of his advance astonished but, when Lampard was sandwiched by the luminaries from Barcelona, was he wondering if his decline will be as rapid and dramatic?

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:54 am

That reporter willl be sacked within a week!

by **bunglemark2** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:53 am

Anybody know where I can see clips of the goals ? can't find them anywhere.....gonna miss Football Focus tomorrow so was hoping to see them today....

by **Big Niall** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:03 pm

I don't think England have the players.

Face it, England have never travelled to a tournament and reached a final. Hell, England have never one a SINGLE match against a good team in the world cup knock outs on foreign turf. Not one match! Astonishing, but true - Belgium(1990) was the best I could think of.

I'm not slagging England off, I wish my country was as good and wish England well but I don't believe they have potential to be any better than a top 8 team. Too many fat kids on the streets these days (can't all be Lampards, can they?)

by **zarababe** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:10 am

But also, how many of the England team members have actually ever 'won' anything and have the 'winning menatlity - hunger' ? I mean how many have proven European experience and play at clubs that challenge for honours in Europe and Engerland?

Gerrard, Carragher, Crouch

Lampard ( :censored:

), Cole x2, Terry, Wright Philips (not worth mentioining cos not enuff games)

Neville (yeuk), Carrick, (not worth mentioning, for lack of experience)

I'm struglin here people. The fact is that the majority of players who wear the Engerland shirt can't cut it against the best. Then theirs Steve Mclaren, what knoweldege and know-how can he bring, on how to organise and compete with the best nations in Europe let alone in the world. Qualification from the group is gonna be tough.

It might be painful, but if we fail, at least Mclaren will have to go, then we can get someone with pedigree to run the Engerland show !

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