Liverpool FC Forum

by **AussieKopite** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:09 pm

RAFABENITEZ wrote:Cisse
all who say he is shi* are morons.

I reckon that Cisse doesn't get the right kind of service. He gets given a lot of high balls, which is good for Crouch and Morientes but Cisse is quite a bit shorter. When they play the type of ball he needs (a quick through ball) often too much is put on it and so it goes out for a goal kick. Its a matter of finding the right balance.

by **A.B.** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:10 pm

B#llocks, lack of service is a poor execuse. He's be getting plenty of service from Alonso and Gerrard. I.e. the time we played against Villa. Gerrard passed the ball 70 yrds away to find Cisse all by himself in front of Sorensen, only for Cisse to feck up things in front of goal

by **tubby** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:15 pm

bigmick wrote:
bavlondon wrote:i thik if we got rid of Cisse and signed Walcott we could have one of the best striking parterships in he prem.

Bav you are going through a strange period at the moment. Walcott is sixteen years of age and it would be wise to remember this before talking of him in such terms. Though he clearly has potential it would be wise to not get too carried away. Him being part of one of the best striking partnerships in the Premiership is unlikely to happen anytime soon.

Perhaps your vision is not as good as mine then bigmick (no disrespect towards you lad) but how much have you actually watched im play this season. He has very accute finishing and is probabaly faster than Henry, in fact he ran so fat on the weekend he was out of the cameras view!!!!!!! Im not just saying he could get into our squad, im saying he would probabaly be a 1st team player. Ok i admit Crouch is starting to play ok, but apart from that lets face it our strikers have no consisntsy. Between Cisses moaning and Morientes' persistent injuries we have quite a poor set of strikers. We are lucky that our midfielders are scoring on a regular basis, beacsue if it were not for them we may well be in Arsenals place or worse. Evn Wayne Rooney at 16 was a better player than some of our current strikers. Im not doubting the ability of Morientes and Cisse but consistensy is something you have to have. We havent had a fresh young hungry pacey striker up front since Michael Owen. The rest of you who choose to critisice my praise for Theo Walcott may go ahead and point and laugh or say whatever you wish but the fact is that he is one of the most intelligent players i have seen since players like Rooney and Ronaldinho but if Rafa choose not to go for him im sure you will all be cursing Rafa for missing out on him and the stupid thread will start up again similar to the ones after MO went to N'Castle. And as for me ill just say ...i told you so ...... :censored:

by **A.B.** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:23 pm

LiverpoolMadman wrote:Both players have strong points and weak points.

No sh1t Sherlock, most players have weak and strong points. :glare:

by **AwiLas** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:23 pm

Cisse can rock opponents defence, just by hearing his name as he is already an established player compared to Sinama.. Who is Sinama compared to Le Tallec.?. My 2 cents.. Cheers..

by **anfieldadorer** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:50 pm

just seen the vs luton replay; both of flo's goal were superb, combination of skill, pace and football brain. too early to say he deserves the first line-up, but it's right time to have him involved in more matches

by **stmichael** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:23 pm

AwiLas wrote:Who is Sinama compared to Le Tallec.?.

his cousin

by **JC_81** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:19 pm

Cisse or Pongolle?

Personally I don't rate Cisse, he's all pace but no technique or composure. As others have said he'd do alright for a team that defended deep and hit long balls over the top for him (Auxerre or a Houllier team), but Benitez's system demands that strikers are good with their back to goal and at linking with the midfield. Cisse will never be that player and I don't think there's any chance of him being at Liverpool next season. The only reason Benitez won't cash in in January is because we're unlikely to find a suitable replacement who is eligible for European games.

As for Pongolle, he's a good player and potentially could get a lot better with more games. He's quick (granted not just as quick as Cisse), has a great first touch and decent awareness. He also showed at the weekend he's not a bad finisher either. There is no doubt in my mind he is a better player than Cisse, he's improved over the last couple of seasons while Cisse has gone backwards. Despite others suggesting he needs to bulk up, I believe he's already done this, he looks much stronger on the ball these days and I like his aggressive streak too.

In summary Cisse is on borrowed time at Liverpool and it would take a miraculous turnaround for Benitez not to sell him in the summer. Pongolle deserves a chance, but to be honest he's always looked better coming off the bench than when he starts games. I don't know whether he's good enough long term, but a partnership of him and Crouch is surely worth a try at some point this season.

by **JBG** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:53 pm

john craig wrote:Cisse or Pongolle?

Personally I don't rate Cisse, he's all pace but no technique or composure. As others have said he'd do alright for a team that defended deep and hit long balls over the top for him (Auxerre or a Houllier team), but Benitez's system demands that strikers are good with their back to goal and at linking with the midfield. Cisse will never be that player and I don't think there's any chance of him being at Liverpool next season. The only reason Benitez won't cash in in January is because we're unlikely to find a suitable replacement who is eligible for European games.

As for Pongolle, he's a good player and potentially could get a lot better with more games. He's quick (granted not just as quick as Cisse), has a great first touch and decent awareness. He also showed at the weekend he's not a bad finisher either. There is no doubt in my mind he is a better player than Cisse, he's improved over the last couple of seasons while Cisse has gone backwards. Despite others suggesting he needs to bulk up, I believe he's already done this, he looks much stronger on the ball these days and I like his aggressive streak too.

In summary Cisse is on borrowed time at Liverpool and it would take a miraculous turnaround for Benitez not to sell him in the summer. Pongolle deserves a chance, but to be honest he's always looked better coming off the bench than when he starts games. I don't know whether he's good enough long term, but a partnership of him and Crouch is surely worth a try at some point this season.

Well put John, pretty much my thoughts on the matter.

by **JC_81** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:01 pm

JBG wrote:Well put John, pretty much my thoughts on the matter.

Cheers JBG, I thought your assessment of Cisse on page 3 of this topic was spot on anyway, I was just trying to expand on that really

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:11 pm

SLURP SLURP!

by **JC_81** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:15 pm

Cool Hand Luke wrote:SLURP SLURP!

What are you slurping Luke?? Sounds like you're enjoying it

by **woof woof !** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:48 pm

Must say I've been a big supporter of Cisse ,I had a lot of sympathy for the fella due to the injury he sustained and the way he came back from it ,I also made excuses for him ,blaming his average /poor performances on the fact that we were not playing to his strengths BUT I now have to admit that his only strength seems to be pace .I'd be sorry to see him go but he just isn't doing enough to justify a regular place in our first eleven . I'd like to see Pongo given more opportunity to show us what he's capable of .He's shown some great ability (I'm still knocked out by his goal against Betis) and the lad's not gonna flower unless he gets more than the occasional apperance .
I get the impression that Cisse doesn't feel he has to prove anything to deserve a place in the starting line up whereas Pongo works his socks off everytime he's given a chance .Right now Pongo would be my choice ahead of Cissse .

by **ivor_the_injun** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:04 pm

I'm not sure I like the way this has basically turned into an anti-Cisse thread.

Everybody knows that strikers need games to get their eye in, and to hone their sharpness in front of goal. This is a huge part of the reason why Crouch is doing so well - he's been more or less ever present in the first 11 for months now. Cisse's been dropped even when he's been scoring, so it's a little hard on the lad to expect him to be firing on all cylinders when he's not been given a decent run in the side.

It's hard to accomplish when you have four strikers on the payroll that all want games, but for me you have to persevere with whoever's showing a bit of form. On this basis, Crouch and Pongolle should be up front v Spurs for me.

That said - and the point has been made a few times - Pongolle's influence on a game does tend to flag as time goes on, so whoever's on the bench will get a chance. In Cisse's case, he has to start putting himself in there to take his chances when he comes on as sub, and make sure we're talking about him getting a start in a couple of games time.

Incidentally, I think it needs saying that this is a nice problem for us to have. Remember the striker crisis we had this time last year?...

by **72-1136150807** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:20 pm

Was going to start a thread on Cisse, but seen as this one is going strong, I will add my thoughts here.

Djibril Cisse Is Just Like Ronseal – He Does What It Says On The Tin

So what do I mean by this:

When the first inklings of our interest in Cisse was revealed, a good 18 months before the deal was completed, I began to watch a lot of French football to see what he was like and the progress he was making.
Now the first thing that was apparent was that he scored regularly, but it was also clear to me that e did miss a number of chances, but the thing was, he was getting into positions to get these chances anyway, which I found to be a good sign, and hoped that this would cease as he grew as a player, but the next season (his last in France) was much the same, many chances, many scored, but just as many (if not more!) missed.

Now obviously not everyone here would have been watching Cisse on a regular basis, but we all would have seen compilations of his goals as they were doing the rounds in the summer fo his acquisition.
Now as someone said earlier, it was clear that most goals were individual efforts, without much build up play.
Which brings me onto Ronseal*

We knew Cisse was a goalscorer, that he had killer pace and acceleration and was quite physically strong with a vicious shot. That is what it had on the tin, so to speak, and he is doing as described on the tin. He uses his pace and regularly fires off those vicious shots (often wild shots we all know!). So do we REALLY have any cause for complaint?
He is doing what it says on the tin is he not? Well to the extent he can, considering the lack of regular starts of the past few months.

So maybe, the problem stems from us, not reading the instructions on the tin properly.
What I mean by this is, the instructions on the tin may say something along the lines of:
‘For best results, focus the team around Djibril, hit him everytime you can with through balls in between defenders and let his pace take care of the rest’.

Now when he was initially bought by GH, these instructions on the tin would have been followed to a tee. That was the exact way we were playing at the time, regularly hitting long balls for Michael Owen to feed off. And although just a guess, if we had continued in the same way (obviously under GH!) then, he may well have actually done what it said on the tin.

However, the problem is we are not using the given instructions and are trying to get best results, under a different formula. This is not a dig at Rafa in the slightest,because he has his way and will do things his way. That is not a problem, its just plainly obvious now (and I have tried to defend him so many times in the past, so its hard to say now!) that Cisse cannot change his attributes, or really change his style of play to fit into Rafa’s plan. He is only totally lethal, when used as the instructions on the tin stipulate.
My point is, I don’t think we should be as harsh on Djib, as many have been. He has his skills and attributes that make him a good player in his own right, its just that those skills and attributes are not being used and harnessed in the right way, to get the best results.
The tin told us what we would be getting, we knew he didn’t have ‘skill’ like a Garcia for example, we knew he didn’t have the heading ability of a Crespo, we knew he wasn’t a fox in the box like Fowler.
The tin said we were getting, pace, power and goals and who can argue that we haven’t got that?

As for the transfer price, he didn’t set the price, also lets take into account how much GH was willing to pay for Diouf, so £14m for a player wanted ACROSS EUROPE (c’mon Juve and Barca don’t come calling if you have nothing to offer) at the time wasn’t too bad a business, its just that we ddint read the instructions on how to use him.

It was sadly just bad timing, what with Rafa coming in and such. But I am sure if (more likely WHEN) we sell Cisse in the summer, the team buying him, will once again, just like us, know what they are getting, because it says so on the tin, but I think if they actually read the instructions and take heed, then Cisse will undoubtedly flourish.

*For those who may not be from the UK who don’t know what ‘Ronseal’ is:
It is a wood varnish, that had a very simple advert, basically stating that ‘It does what it says on the tin’ and nothing more and nothing less.
Example of advert:
‘Ronseal quick drying wood paint, it is quick drying wood paint’

Picture of Ronseal tin and voiceoer person saying:
‘Ronseal quick drying wood paint, it does what it says on the tin’

A very short and basic advert. But well known in the UK, because of the style it was done.

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