Liverpool FC Forum

by **red37** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:01 pm

well said inglis5

by **seani.g** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:02 pm

Cisse needs a good run of starts but will he get them?
He looked to have no confidence yesterday and and was getting frustrated by the problesm he was having.
He had a bad game and was worried about it!
He needs to work hard and get a bit of luck score some goals and take it on from there.
I think that perhaps Rafa fancies Mori more than Cisse and so Cisse may well struggle. He will also be worried about his place for the World Cup.
He's got some big issues!!!!

by **akumaface** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:09 pm

Pongolle is way more intelligent in terms of awareness. He knows where he should be but Cisse has no idea whatsoever. Pongolle's touch and shooting skill is much better than Cisse. Basically, Cisse is quicker running in a straight line (he is perfect in track and field) but running with the ball is another story. One more thing Cisse is better than Pongolle is the rate in which he changes his haircut. Otherwise, I rate Pongolle a better overall striker than Cisse.

by **ivor_the_injun** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:48 pm

I think that however much people claim otherwise, most of the opinions in this thread are related to a very, very poor Cisse performance yesterday.

Likewise, all I've read all day is how brilliant Alonso's goals were, yet had he gone off instead of Sissoko yesterday, at that point in the game it would've been a good substitution as he's done f*ck all up until his goal. There were probably 3 or 4 players that had a worse game than Cisse yesterday, and - apart from his second goal - Alonso was arguably one of them.

Cisse has been generally disappointing aside since he signed, but he's not exactly had a good run in the side this season, even when he has scored. It's exactly the same as everyone was saying when Crouch first got in the side - he's a striker, ergo he should be scoring. Now Crouch is, everyone's fine, but I think it's out of order when people get too hard on Cisse when he misses clear cut chances. Every single striker misses chances time and time again, and it's only the fee we paid for him that makes us look closer at Djibril's. Simple as.

He's a good player. A very good player in fact. However, he doesn't convert as many chances as he should and that's something he needs to address. His touch is often heavy, and on far too many occasions has made 30 yard runs to meet a pass a complete waste of energy as he inadvertantly pokes it too far ahead of him, making it easy for the keeper to clean up. Yesterday's one-on-one was a case in point, and isn't an isolated example.

However, he does get to the byline cutting back dangerous balls, and he does carve defences apart with that blistering pace. And he does know where the goal is - look at his phenomenal strike against Everton.

He - like Pongolle - is still a bit raw, and this is something only more games can sort out. Whether it's with us or another club, Cisse is going to end up being a very prolific goalscorer and goal provider.

For now, on form alone, Pongolle deserves another go in the first 11. Both have a future at the club though - it's competition that'll make them both better players.

by **Jari's mullet** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:58 pm

Looking at our current squad I don't think it is as simple as a straight choice between the two. I echoe the sentiment of many in that I think that Pongolle is the better all round player. However as it stands, I still think that Cisse's pace warrants him a place in the squad to be utilised in certain games where tactically we can use his speed to good effect. Ideally I would obviously like a player with electric speed and a good touch to boot, but until we have a replacement signed or even lined up who does possess pace and skill, I am happy to see Cisse stay. I know there is the argument of selling him will generate funds to then buy, which is true, but i would be more comfortable if a replacement was at least in the pipeline.

Having said that I am not sure what funds the sale of Cisse would actually bring. He hasn't exactly excelled over here, hasn't played much football, has a broken leg behind him, in fact I would think that it is only in France where he is rated, and I am not sure what kind of money is available in the French game for big money transfers. We will definately make a loss on the player, the size of which is anyone's guess.

On a note about Cisse's attitude, at least he seems to be making noises about being commited to the club and will fight for his place. However his body language on the pitch sends mixed messages. I like to see players show frustration when they miss the target or misplace a pass as it shows that they care, but equally I like to see a player when on the pitch not dwell too much on it, put it behind them and persevere, just like Crouch demonstrated when he was looking for his first goal. However with Cisse you could see him physically deflated, shoulders drooped, shaking his head a good 5 minutes after a missed shot against Luton. Raul, Shearer and Owen to name 3 great strikers, just get on with it. There is the argument that with so few chances given by Rafa, he is just desperate to impress, but I would like to see him show more concentration on the game and less posturing around like a prima donna.

by **clint** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:45 pm

1 thing i have noticed about pongollle is that whenever he comes on as a sub he plays really well, but not so well when he strarts

by **crazyhorse** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:04 pm

I am not a keen admirer of either player, but at a push i feel that Cisse has a better pedigree and better all round game than Pongolle.

Cisse has had problems establishing himself here and getting used to the English game, he has also recovered less than a year ago from a truly terrible injury, one that i would guess will inhibit him for a while longer yet. Yes he is 100% physically fit but the added 1 to 5 % you get through confidence and determination is not there - i would give him until the end of the season to prove himself.

Sinema is a good player, but is not a truly gifted one. He can score goals and hold the line but has none of the attributes it takes to be a truly great striker - Pace, Skill and clinical finishing ability. We have only had a few players in the clubs history who had all three but you need at least two to be a true great imo. The lad is a useful squad player but will never be a consistant starter in the 1st team.

by **Sabre** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:08 pm

Bah, sorry to put this here, but doesn't deserve a new thread. The barcodes might take a good player on front of our noses again

http://home.skysports.com/list.as....iership

And he's better than Sinama and Cisse

by **ivor_the_injun** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:09 pm

One thing that you can say about both of them is that they will always be brilliant to have at your disposal on the bench.

Whether they're happy fulfilling that role on a regular basis is another thing entirely, however.

by **115-1073096938** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:06 pm

crazyhorse wrote:Sinema is a good player, but is not a truly gifted one. He can score goals and hold the line but has none of the attributes it takes to be a truly great striker - Pace, Skill and clinical finishing ability.

Can't agree with that at all.

Sinama is fast, very fast infact, he's also an excellent finisher when given a chance, he shows composure infront of goal and doesn't swing at chances and if you're saying he's got no skill i think you're watching a different player.

The lads got excellent dribbling ability and has some great tricks and dummies in his locker.

I don't think he'll ever reach Owen or Fowler's level, not in a million years, he is however a very good alround player.

For me, as a regular he'd get 15 goals a season and he'd contribute with assists and playing his part in other goals aswell. The lads a good alround footballer, unlike Sissy.

by **A.B.** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:09 pm

Sabre wrote:Bah, sorry to put this here, but doesn't deserve a new thread. The barcodes might take a good player on front of our noses again

http://home.skysports.com/list.as....iership

And he's better than Sinama and Cisse

I think Nihat could well be past his best, he hasn't been doing all that well in La Liga in the last two seasons. But then again you watch him play more than I do

by **JBG** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:29 pm

The way I see it is as follows:

Prior to us buying Cisse, he was touted as being one of the finest talents in Europe. The French national set up were absolutely wetting themselves about his potential back in 2002. When he joined us, I remember a few French fans coming onto this forum telling us what a fabulous player we had just bought. Barcelona tried to snatch Cisse away from us (on loan) about two weeks after he joine us as they believed that as he was signed by Houllier, Benitez wouldn't rate him.

Cisse was a major star in French football. When he joined, I saw a compilation movie of him on the internet. It showed about 20 goals he scored for Auxerre and a couple he got for France.

The goals clip was interesting. Auxerre seemed to build all of their offensive play around him. When they were defending Cisse always hung around the half way line. If they managed to regain possession they would try to hit Cisse early, and he scored a lot of goals by skinning defenders with his pace. He also scored some fine individual goals with rocket type shots from outside the box. However, what was interesting about the goals clip was that almost all of the goals were individual efforts. There was no sign of good build up play and interaction with his team mates.

Cisse then had a problem at Liverpool as he was no longer the main man, but just another cog in the machine. Liverpool didn't always hit the ball early to him and Benitez demanded Cisse to partake in a more team placed game, something he is not yet capable of.

When he got injured he became a bit of a minor hero as the fans warmed to his excellent attitude in getting back to fitness. However, as he went through 7 or 8 difficult months, I think Cisse felt that the footballing gods owed him a prolific 2005/05 where he would score goals for fun and be the star of the team. This hasn't happened, and he has ruined some of the good will he built up last season with his selfish play and occasional petulent outbursts.

I think Cisse's problem is that he has always been "the" star, and his previous teams always played to his strengths. This is not happening at Liverpool and he's struggling. I'll wager that he will be sold this summer as it is clear that Benitez doesn't fancy him, regardless of what Benitez says.

Cisse will do well at a Marseille or PSG, where the team would play to his strengths. I don't think he has it in him to really develop into a world class forward.

Pongolle, on the other hand, has had things much harder. While he was a star at underage level, at Liverpool he has had to do things the hard way. He knows that his chances will only be occasional, and he clearly has the air of a determined young man who is prepared to give his all when given a chance. There have been a number of games - Olympiakos last year, Sao Paulo and Luton this year - where Sinama has made a significant impact coming off the bench. I think as the season goes forward Pongolle will become an important player for us as an impact sub, although whether he remains in Benitez' long term plans remains to be seen.

As things stand, if Pongolle was a regular for the likes of Man City or Charlton, he would be good enough to get about 12 goals a season. Not hugely impressive, but not bad either, particularly for a young and inexperienced lad.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:17 am

JBG, you have summed up perfectly what I have thought about Cisse for over a year now. If the play is not based around him then he will be ineffective. At Auxerre he was the main man and everything went through him, this is a very basic plan and will be snuffed out by a half decent defence with some pace.

Cisse never really scored many goals in the UEFA Cup for Auxerre and scored only 1 or 2 goals for France in about 15 games. He struggled when he was challenged at a higher level. What disappoints me the most is that he hasn’t been able to adapt and improve his game, he doesn’t seem to have the intelligence, willingness or natural ability to see that he needs to change and improve his game if he wants to play at a higher level.

Owen is the sort of player who will play according to the game and situation, Cisse is the sort who expects the game and situation to play for him, this is not the mind set of a top striker.

Anyway, although he has some decent attributes, he is ultimately a limited player who will not develop much beyond what he already is. When a sensible bid comes in for him and we can find a good replacement he will be sold.

by **Sabre** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:22 am

I think Nihat could well be past his best, he hasn't been doing all that well in La Liga in the last two seasons. But then again you watch him play more than I do

I've seen him play every week A.B. he plays for Real Sociedad. And the reason for he has not brilliant is the team that surrounds him, most of them youngsters. Nevertheless along with Kovacevic he has maintained the team alive. Even the Madrid press admits this and they talk poorly of us. He's 25. He has the best to come, and I wouldn't like to see him in the barcodes, mostly because he is going to rip apart many premiere defences.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:26 am

Sabre wrote:mostly because he is going to rip apart many premiere defences.

Sorry Sabre, but I heard the Auxerre manager say that straight after we bought Cisse.

In fact he said that Cisse would massacre english defenses.

LOL :help

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