Liverpool FC Forum

by **teamleader1** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:56 pm

LiverpoolMadman wrote:Both players have strong points and weak points.

Agreed

and its hard to say who would be better on a regular basis.
but after watching them both for their liverpool careers I think maybe cisse has been the less impressive overall - I know he scores goals but his link up play and goals for chances return is generaly poor - Im not alone in hoping Rafa brings in a natural goal scorer this month
and once the RM is sorted (with cover) both will be surplus

cisse and pongoli will both go in the summer

by **Raoul** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:58 pm

If you are looking for someone for the last 20-30 minutes, then I'd go for Sinama, but Cisse gets my vote right now. He just needs to relax!

by **drummerphil** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:47 pm

to be honest i do think there are knee jerk reactions going on here.Cisse although looks anonymous in games but when you look how many goals he has scored..........he does find the net on a regular basis and a job as a striker is to score goals.Yes he can be frustrating and his first touch is awful at times (he cant trap wind) but he scores goals.Sinema is an exciting talent who in every match he comes on provides a threat and looks up for it and it would be wrong to sell the lad or send him out on loan.
So the Cisse vs Pongolle is a non starter for me both offer something different,both score goals and both should be left alone to get on with their Liverpool careers.

by **Jari's mullet** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:48 pm

I think Pongolle does something that Cisse doesn't and that is look up, for his first goal yesterday that was apparent he looked up a couple of time and then was composed for a nice finish

by **primodua** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:13 pm

very very subjective material

by **teamleader1** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:17 pm

drummerphil wrote:to be honest i do think there are knee jerk reactions going on here.Cisse although looks anonymous in games but when you look how many goals he has scored..........he does find the net on a regular basis and a job as a striker is to score goals.Yes he can be frustrating and his first touch is awful at times (he cant trap wind) but he scores goals.Sinema is an exciting talent who in every match he comes on provides a threat and looks up for it and it would be wrong to sell the lad or send him out on loan.
So the Cisse vs Pongolle is a non starter for me both offer something different,both score goals and both should be left alone to get on with their Liverpool careers.

Im not to sure about the knee jerk reaction to cissie,

ive nothing against him or pongoli, its if they are good enough to become long term 1st choice players for LFC and I think the answer is not really. pongoli is a fine squad player but wont settle for that, and cissie is not showing anything near the quality a 14ml player should and we cant wait to long for it to suddenly appear - Nando is showing his class of late and crouch is proving his critics wrong and niether of them constantly shake their heads and sulk for 5mins when a pass is not slide rule precise to their feet
Rafa has to bring in more fire power sooner rather than later
and we cant afford top wages for underachievers,
Its sad because we all wanted him to be a bit special but its not turning out that way

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:22 pm

I just wanted to see what Cisse’s goal scoring record was in what I see as the real games:

Cisse in the Premiership: 4 Goals, 18 Games, 10 Starts and 8 Sub Appearances

Cisse in Champions League Proper: 2 Goals, 5 Games, 2 Starts and 3 Sub Appearances

Cisse in FA Cup, 0 Goals, 1 Game, 1 Start

Cisse in Carling Cup, N/A

Total: 6 Goals in 12 Starts and 11 Sub Appearances

And just so people don’t think that I am just having a go at Cisse, let me clarify Gerrard’s real goal scoring record:

Gerrard in the Premiership: 6 Goals, 17 Games, 17 Starts

Gerrard in Champions League Proper: 0 Goals, 5 Games, 4 Starts and 1 Sub Appearance

Gerrard in FA Cup, 1 Goal, 1 Game, 1 Start

Gerrard in Carling Cup, 1 Goal, 1 Game, 1 Start

Total: 8 Goals in 23 Starts and 1 Sub Appearance.

Overall Cisse’s goal scoring record is O.K, but it isn’t as great as some people have stated because they have included the ‘Mickey Mouse’ games, and the same goes for Gerrard he has done well but people have gone over board because they are including those games.

by **RAFABENITEZ** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:20 pm

Cool Hand Luke wrote:I just wanted to see what Cisse’s goal scoring record was in what I see as the real games:

Cisse in the Premiership: 4 Goals, 18 Games, 10 Starts and 8 Sub Appearances

Cisse in Champions League Proper: 2 Goals, 5 Games, 2 Starts and 3 Sub Appearances

Cisse in FA Cup, 0 Goals, 1 Game, 1 Start

Cisse in Carling Cup, N/A

Total: 6 Goals in 12 Starts and 11 Sub Appearances

And just so people don’t think that I am just having a go at Cisse, let me clarify Gerrard’s real goal scoring record:

Gerrard in the Premiership: 6 Goals, 17 Games, 17 Starts

Gerrard in Champions League Proper: 0 Goals, 5 Games, 4 Starts and 1 Sub Appearance

Gerrard in FA Cup, 1 Goal, 1 Game, 1 Start

Gerrard in Carling Cup, 1 Goal, 1 Game, 1 Start

Total: 8 Goals in 23 Starts and 1 Sub Appearance.

Overall Cisse’s goal scoring record is O.K, but it isn’t as great as some people have stated because they have included the ‘Mickey Mouse’ games, and the same goes for Gerrard he has done well but people have gone over board because they are including those games.

hes in out in out of the team. if he got 12 starts on the bounce he would get 9 plus

by **teamleader1** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:25 pm

Cool Hand Luke wrote:Overall Cisse’s goal scoring record is O.K, but it isn’t as great as some people have stated because they have included the ‘Mickey Mouse’ games, and the same goes for Gerrard he has done well but people have gone over board because they are including those games.

I agree totally on that score but look at the overall contributions to the team - Gerrard - excellent/
Cissie - great in flashes but generaly not good enough.

I always defended cissie on here but ive seen enough now - a burst of speed is not enough - we need speed combined with a footballing brain

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:00 pm

RAFABENITEZ wrote:
Cool Hand Luke wrote:I just wanted to see what Cisse’s goal scoring record was in what I see as the real games:

Cisse in the Premiership: 4 Goals, 18 Games, 10 Starts and 8 Sub Appearances

Cisse in Champions League Proper: 2 Goals, 5 Games, 2 Starts and 3 Sub Appearances

Cisse in FA Cup, 0 Goals, 1 Game, 1 Start

Cisse in Carling Cup, N/A

Total: 6 Goals in 12 Starts and 11 Sub Appearances

And just so people don’t think that I am just having a go at Cisse, let me clarify Gerrard’s real goal scoring record:

Gerrard in the Premiership: 6 Goals, 17 Games, 17 Starts

Gerrard in Champions League Proper: 0 Goals, 5 Games, 4 Starts and 1 Sub Appearance

Gerrard in FA Cup, 1 Goal, 1 Game, 1 Start

Gerrard in Carling Cup, 1 Goal, 1 Game, 1 Start

Total: 8 Goals in 23 Starts and 1 Sub Appearance.

Overall Cisse’s goal scoring record is O.K, but it isn’t as great as some people have stated because they have included the ‘Mickey Mouse’ games, and the same goes for Gerrard he has done well but people have gone over board because they are including those games.

hes in out in out of the team. if he got 12 starts on the bounce he would get 9 plus

I was simply pointing out that the goal scoring record of Cisse and Gerrard are not as impressive when you take out the 'Mickey Mouse' games. It just frustrating that people are saying Gerrard has scored this many goals and Cisse has scored this many goals, when I probably could have scored against those teams!

Gerrard is doing well in terms of goals scoring, and Cisse had done O.K as well, that is all I wanted to point out.

Cisse may well score more goals if given an extended run.

by **A.B.** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:05 pm

The difference between Gerrard and Cisse's goals, is that Gerrard has scored from almost every chance he's gotten, in other words he's converted more goals with less chances than Cisse.

Cisse has missed just too many for my liking

by **JBG** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:27 pm

Hard one to call.

Cisse had a massive reputation in France and across Europe before he signed for us. The general consensus I have garnered is that French and European analyists see him as a disappointment in that he has failed to expand or develop his game.

Pongolle I like. He's a young lad but he gives it his all and is always lively. He is a player that can make things happen rather than waiting for things to happen (like Cisse). He is still very rough around the edges and he is not as skilful or as technical as you might hope. However, he certainly shows promise, and he does seem to have a knack of getting into good positions in the box.

by **115-1073096938** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:32 pm

I think yes, what about you?

by **inglis5** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:45 pm

Very tough one to call... Cisse has the ability to do things that very few other players can. His explosive pace is definitely a good thing to have in the side but his unpredicability can be as much a burden to the team as an asset. I just get the feeling that Rafa doesn't like the unpredictable aspect of his game, Rafa plans meticulously and he must be very frustrated that a player of such obvious talent is unable to perform the role that is asked of him.

Pongolle on the other hand is far more aware of his role. Though he is not as quick as Cisse, he has the extra intelligence and positional awareness that I think makes him a better asset to the team. A striker doesn't need to have lightning pace to be effective (Fowler, Bergkamp, Sheringham), their starting position is the key - see his 1st goal yesterday - he also seems to be far more composed in front of goal and his attitude to date, cannot be faulted...

I really like Cisse but I'd have to say, if it were a choice between him and Pongolle, I'd be more dissapointed to see Sinama go. Over the next few seasons I really think he has the potential to develop into a brilliant striker whereas I can't see any likely improvement from Djib.

by **JBG** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:48 pm

inglis5 wrote:Very tough one to call... Cisse has the ability to do things that very few other players can. His explosive pace is definitely a good thing to have in the side but his unpredicability can be as much a burden to the team as an asset. I just get the feeling that Rafa doesn't like the unpredictable aspect of his game, Rafa plans meticulously and he must be very frustrated that a player of such obvious talent is unable to perform the role that is asked of him.

Pongolle on the other hand is far more aware of his role. Though he is not as quick as Cisse, he has the extra intelligence and positional awareness that I think makes him a better asset to the team. A striker doesn't need to have lightning pace to be effective (Fowler, Bergkamp, Sheringham), their starting position is the key - see his 1st goal yesterday - he also seems to be far more composed in front of goal and his attitude to date, cannot be faulted...

I really like Cisse but I'd have to say, if it were a choice between him and Pongolle, I'd be more dissapointed to see Sinama go. Over the next few seasons I really think he has the potential to develop into a brilliant striker whereas I can't see any likely improvement from Djib.

Good post.

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