Homebooby » Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:39 pm wrote:I am a huge fan of the internet....I love it and can't really imagine a world without it cos so many cool things come from it, but this whole penalty discussion both here and elsewhere is a great example of one of the really irritating facets which is everyone turns in an expert on things they know absolutely nothing about and every piece of minutiae is analysed to death. The only facts are that he took the penalty, he scored and we won because of it. We should be hailing him as a hero and nothing else. Move on to the next game and let's hope we win again. It's like we're always looking for something to complain about just to have something to talk about here sometimes
Other facts:
The media reported only a piece of what Stevie said and in the full context his comments weren't anything earth shattering. He had a point, as I suppose some people do on here, but let's be honest it was hardly even a scuffle. Did it reflect in any way badly on the team/club/player.....not in my opinion.
Partial facts/partial opinion:
Stevie is exiting the club and now the decision has been made, the remainder of his tenure is and will remain uncomfortable and awkward. His influence and opinion is less significant than it was last season as it is only valid for another 4 months approx. Couple that with the fact that he has been injured twice since he stated his health/condition was not an issue around the time of the announcement and the team is performing without him, sometimes it's a bit of a moot point. The team is obviously transitioning and moving on and some of the players that were perhaps hiding in his shadow are now coming to the fore. I appreciate that he gave his personal opinion rather than dodge the question altogether, but the fact is that he wasn't there on the pitch and I think that Henderson did a great job of avoiding a bigger scene for someone so relatively inexperienced
There's talk about lack of leadership without Stevie in the squad, but what do we expect when there has been such dominance for so long? As above, that is currently in transition for me and we will not see anyone fully grow into that role until it has been vacated. I wanted him to stay, but once the decision is made, the longer he hangs around the more detrimental he'll be to that situation.
The people on here criticising BR for me are beyond belief. From the beginning of the season until October/November, he was accused of not knowing his strongest team and not knowing his strongest formation and incapable of dealing with the leaky defence. A number of his signings were ridiculed and the way everyone was hitting both him and Mignolet was something to behold. His one statement was that a lot of people were bedding in and in many ways we were back to where we were 2 years ago when it took until Jan/Feb for things to click. Low and behold, the strongest team seems to be known, the formation seems to be known, the style of play seems to be known, we're winning whilst keeping clean sheets and a lot of those signings are starting to show promise, heck, even Mario seems to be digging in and trying to contribute....yet some still find ways to use words like ineptitude on here. This for someone who is overseeing league winning form from the beginning of the year onwards.
I don't know what the future holds any more than anyone else on here, but can we please try to focus a little more on the positives and just get behind the squad and the manager and act like proper fans worthy of the tradition and reputation that we are so well known for? Claiming the manager is inept is as good as an automatic discredit in my eyes. The team is transforming as he has predicted and he's managing to do it in some of the most difficult circumstances an LFC manager possibly ever had to face....Jamie leaving, Suarez and everything to do with that and now Stevie leaving. We may not be back to old ways as we'd like to see it, but the ship is being righted again and if we're objective for a moment, the Stevie story is being weathered particularly well. Mocked for only bringing back Ibe in January, but that looks to be a master stroke and the gap that Stevie is leaving seems to be filling in. Could it be that by the end of the season it's not as devastating as we all thought it would be? I'd rate the chances as very high at this moment and things look promising. Personally I think that BR has been playing a blinder for a couple of seasons on the personnel front and if he does realise what is currently being promised by the way the team is developing, it should be as a master stroke and himself a miracle worker.
Just get behind the club and manager from now till the end of the season and make this board more pleasant to read again.
RED BEERGOGGLES » Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:48 pm wrote:I think that game against Besiktas underlined my reservations with Rodgers tactical acumen ,he seems to possess no proclivity whatsoever to deviate from his current
mindset .Besiktas if we're honest are a decent well drilled team with a manager who knows how to accentuate the strength in his core group of players....but that's it !
If truth be known they're nothing special ,and with the players at the managers disposal he had more than enough options to have switched things up ,if only to confound
Bilic's tactics ,which has to be said were underlined by Rodgers with his refusal to be less predictable.
In the first half we were tormented by Tore, and Sakho had his work cut out ,to all inside Anfield he was arguably their most potent threat ,we also seen that Ibe although
carrying a real attacking threat was naive in his defending and this often left Can exposed ,we seen how rigid our midfield was with no player pushing up to provide
protection for our main course of invention 'Coutinho' who was marked out of the game ...Bilic was more than happy to let us have the lions share of possession ,whilst retaining a firm line in defence ,they also constructed the best attacks and arguably had enough chances to return to Turkey with a few goals.
Balotelli was introduced and we looked much more threatening and more inventive ,and yet this seems to completely escape the managerEuropean football is a different animal than the kick and rush of the Premier League ,it requires intelligence and the tactical nous to outmanoeuvre your opponent. It may make for depressing reading ,but Liverpool are so predictable in Europe ,and managers can devise their counter tactics a month before the game.
That game on Thursday typified the reason we're out of the Champion's League and it evoked some deeply unpleasant memories of our game against Basel ,a real lack
of game intelligence and once again overlooking the best players to complete the job . I mean what's so difficult ,the games at Anfield and you have two brilliant strikers
to spearhead your attack and you leave one (who has started to play with a real flourish of late ) on the bench ....it completely baffles me
Homebooby » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:17 pm wrote::D
If I believed those 3 were true, then I would stand behind them. I just see no value in commenting on the 'what might have beens' and 'what could be if's' which seems to be increasingly prevalent. This is the squad we have, this is the manager we have and we're not doing too badly at the moment basically sums it up. I don't buy the arguments that we're operating at mid-table club level, but we're kidding ourselves if we think we can compete with the Chelseas, Citys and Utd's for talent at the moment as we're not the club we once were. Take Sterling and Ibe as examples. They weren't born the last time we won the league. They only really know a world where Chelsea and Utd win stuff, much like me as a youngster growing up in the 80's. Things got messed up really badly over the last 20 years to the point where we almost went bankrupt and we were prostituted on the back pages every single day. My view of the world tries to keep that all in mind and look at where we're going. For the first time since Kenny left, I'm seeing a 5 year plan that shows some semblance of promise of us returning to longer term sustainable success playing football in a style that's in keeping with the way I remember us playing in our heyday.
maguskwt » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:30 pm wrote:RED BEERGOGGLES » Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:48 pm wrote:I think that game against Besiktas underlined my reservations with Rodgers tactical acumen ,he seems to possess no proclivity whatsoever to deviate from his current
mindset .Besiktas if we're honest are a decent well drilled team with a manager who knows how to accentuate the strength in his core group of players....but that's it !
If truth be known they're nothing special ,and with the players at the managers disposal he had more than enough options to have switched things up ,if only to confound
Bilic's tactics ,which has to be said were underlined by Rodgers with his refusal to be less predictable.
In the first half we were tormented by Tore, and Sakho had his work cut out ,to all inside Anfield he was arguably their most potent threat ,we also seen that Ibe although
carrying a real attacking threat was naive in his defending and this often left Can exposed ,we seen how rigid our midfield was with no player pushing up to provide
protection for our main course of invention 'Coutinho' who was marked out of the game ...Bilic was more than happy to let us have the lions share of possession ,whilst retaining a firm line in defence ,they also constructed the best attacks and arguably had enough chances to return to Turkey with a few goals.
Balotelli was introduced and we looked much more threatening and more inventive ,and yet this seems to completely escape the managerEuropean football is a different animal than the kick and rush of the Premier League ,it requires intelligence and the tactical nous to outmanoeuvre your opponent. It may make for depressing reading ,but Liverpool are so predictable in Europe ,and managers can devise their counter tactics a month before the game.
That game on Thursday typified the reason we're out of the Champion's League and it evoked some deeply unpleasant memories of our game against Basel ,a real lack
of game intelligence and once again overlooking the best players to complete the job . I mean what's so difficult ,the games at Anfield and you have two brilliant strikers
to spearhead your attack and you leave one (who has started to play with a real flourish of late ) on the bench ....it completely baffles me
Whilst I agree that BR has still much to learn in Europe, what baffles me is anyone blaming the manager for not relyinng on Balotelli, when during the first half of the season the manager stuck with Balotelli and time and again the player has let his manager down. And the current resurgence wasn't based on Balotelli.
RED BEERGOGGLES » Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:48 pm wrote:I think that game against Besiktas underlined my reservations with Rodgers tactical acumen ,he seems to possess no proclivity whatsoever to deviate from his current
mindset .Besiktas if we're honest are a decent well drilled team with a manager who knows how to accentuate the strength in his core group of players....but that's it !
If truth be known they're nothing special ,and with the players at the managers disposal he had more than enough options to have switched things up ,if only to confound
Bilic's tactics ,which has to be said were underlined by Rodgers with his refusal to be less predictable.
In the first half we were tormented by Tore, and Sakho had his work cut out ,to all inside Anfield he was arguably their most potent threat ,we also seen that Ibe although
carrying a real attacking threat was naive in his defending and this often left Can exposed ,we seen how rigid our midfield was with no player pushing up to provide
protection for our main course of invention 'Coutinho' who was marked out of the game ...Bilic was more than happy to let us have the lions share of possession ,whilst retaining a firm line in defence ,they also constructed the best attacks and arguably had enough chances to return to Turkey with a few goals.
Balotelli was introduced and we looked much more threatening and more inventive ,and yet this seems to completely escape the managerEuropean football is a different animal than the kick and rush of the Premier League ,it requires intelligence and the tactical nous to outmanoeuvre your opponent. It may make for depressing reading ,but Liverpool are so predictable in Europe ,and managers can devise their counter tactics a month before the game.
That game on Thursday typified the reason we're out of the Champion's League and it evoked some deeply unpleasant memories of our game against Basel ,a real lack
of game intelligence and once again overlooking the best players to complete the job . I mean what's so difficult ,the games at Anfield and you have two brilliant strikers
to spearhead your attack and you leave one (who has started to play with a real flourish of late ) on the bench ....it completely baffles me
Homebooby » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:21 pm wrote:Just to be clear RBG my post wasn't intended as a direct dig at you or your contributions to the board....who am I to single people out (and I am amazed you even remember anything I've ever written )...that I mean sincerely.
RED BEERGOGGLES » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:31 pm wrote:
As for harking back to our halcyon heydays ,we didn't just pass the ball we out manoeuvred teams with real intelligence and the managers could tinker with their
stratagems to nullify the threat an opposing team ,rather than being overly reliant on pace and ball retention.
Honestly mate ,I have yet to see evidence that the current manager is capable of introducing such game changing tactics ,and those beliefs if I'm honest swept
through the Kop on Thursday night.
Homebooby » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:47 pm wrote:RED BEERGOGGLES » Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:48 pm wrote:I think that game against Besiktas underlined my reservations with Rodgers tactical acumen ,he seems to possess no proclivity whatsoever to deviate from his current
mindset .Besiktas if we're honest are a decent well drilled team with a manager who knows how to accentuate the strength in his core group of players....but that's it !
If truth be known they're nothing special ,and with the players at the managers disposal he had more than enough options to have switched things up ,if only to confound
Bilic's tactics ,which has to be said were underlined by Rodgers with his refusal to be less predictable.
In the first half we were tormented by Tore, and Sakho had his work cut out ,to all inside Anfield he was arguably their most potent threat ,we also seen that Ibe although
carrying a real attacking threat was naive in his defending and this often left Can exposed ,we seen how rigid our midfield was with no player pushing up to provide
protection for our main course of invention 'Coutinho' who was marked out of the game ...Bilic was more than happy to let us have the lions share of possession ,whilst retaining a firm line in defence ,they also constructed the best attacks and arguably had enough chances to return to Turkey with a few goals.
Balotelli was introduced and we looked much more threatening and more inventive ,and yet this seems to completely escape the managerEuropean football is a different animal than the kick and rush of the Premier League ,it requires intelligence and the tactical nous to outmanoeuvre your opponent. It may make for depressing reading ,but Liverpool are so predictable in Europe ,and managers can devise their counter tactics a month before the game.
That game on Thursday typified the reason we're out of the Champion's League and it evoked some deeply unpleasant memories of our game against Basel ,a real lack
of game intelligence and once again overlooking the best players to complete the job . I mean what's so difficult ,the games at Anfield and you have two brilliant strikers
to spearhead your attack and you leave one (who has started to play with a real flourish of late ) on the bench ....it completely baffles me
I went back and read this again properly out of courtesy as much as anything. I obviously wasn't at the stadium, but was watching on TV and my interpretation of the game was nowhere near as insightful as what you've written, could be because I don't 'get/know' football well enough, or more likely it's down to the way my brain has always worked, more big picture than in the details and forgiving of certain weaknesses with an understanding that you can do what you can do with the people you have got and no more. My general feeling was that we mostly dominated the game, had a huge amount of possession, but struggled to do anything with it in the last 3rd a lot of the time, which is not insignificant.
I am not sure whether what you describe is related to tactics, or just the reality of the players we have, playing in the positions we do.
Clearly we're weak at the back and I can't believe that this is something that is a long term plan. Can out of position, no full backs, an ageing Sahko and Skrtel who I struggle to trust. I'm (blindly) hoping for a major overhaul here in the summer as we're still vulnerable to a set piece and don't display the assurance of champions here. Based on these details, I don't get too up in arms about it...it's not where it needs to be and I have to believe that the mgt team knows that too....it's obvious for everyone else to see
Midfield was clearly the place where so much investment has gone these past seasons. My biggest issue with the choices made for midfield is one that would perhaps be viewed as superficial, but I think is significant and touches on your point about Coutinho. I think we miss physical presence in the center and we often get muscled out of things. Coutinho is great example of what I would call a European star, give him space and he can be devastating....sit on him and he goes missing...just doesn't have the presence to not let that be a factor. In search of the speed, nippiness and skill, we've sacrificed muscle I think, mostly cos Stevie was providing that, but that's been on the slide for a while. Will Can moving into midfield bring that....perhaps...but I think we're still low on it.
Which brings me to Mario, I've commented a few times that he's a behemoth when he comes on the pitch...a tank of 'don't f**k with me' physical presence and I think that's what you saw there in the game. It's an impressive thing to behold and he looks like a man amongst boys. So I agree with you that he's a potential game/style changer. I can only explain the ways he's been sparingly used is related to the lack of performance in the first run of games that he had for us. He was so far off the pace for me that we felt like we were playing with 10 men. I'd argue that BR gave him a shot, then altered tactics to get him to want to play. I am not convinced he's successful on that front, but it does look promising and I think it's only fair to judge Mario in a team where he has a proper no-nonsense striker to play off of and he now has that in Sturridge. Potentially they can really cause some trouble.
The other area I really struggle with and I don't understand why it's not commented more on, also on the post game reviews etc and that's the width that we lack/have lacked. I do find myself dumbfounded when BR says week on week that we had good width, when all I see is the winger sprinting from the line towards the penalty spot through a wall of players only to inevitably lose the ball in the pile of legs and feet we come across. When we were lacking any strikers in the team and Sterling was the only one up front, there were so many times a break was on and a ball played into the box only to find there's noone within 10 yards of it. So we stop crossing.....I think this is where Danny and Mario can also make a difference, but we're not doing it enough. Ibe showed the last couple of game what a winger can/should do....hit the byline and cross and hope someone connects. That's the bit of our gameplan that continues to frustrate me more than anything else.
Homebooby » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:17 pm wrote::D
If I believed those 3 were true, then I would stand behind them. I just see no value in commenting on the 'what might have beens' and 'what could be if's' which seems to be increasingly prevalent. This is the squad we have, this is the manager we have and we're not doing too badly at the moment basically sums it up. I don't buy the arguments that we're operating at mid-table club level, but we're kidding ourselves if we think we can compete with the Chelseas, Citys and Utd's for talent at the moment as we're not the club we once were. Take Sterling and Ibe as examples. They weren't born the last time we won the league. They only really know a world where Chelsea and Utd win stuff, much like me as a youngster growing up in the 80's. Things got messed up really badly over the last 20 years to the point where we almost went bankrupt and we were prostituted on the back pages every single day. My view of the world tries to keep that all in mind and look at where we're going. For the first time since Kenny left, I'm seeing a 5 year plan that shows some semblance of promise of us returning to longer term sustainable success playing football in a style that's in keeping with the way I remember us playing in our heyday.
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:47 pm wrote:maguskwt » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:30 pm wrote:RED BEERGOGGLES » Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:48 pm wrote:I think that game against Besiktas underlined my reservations with Rodgers tactical acumen ,he seems to possess no proclivity whatsoever to deviate from his current
mindset .Besiktas if we're honest are a decent well drilled team with a manager who knows how to accentuate the strength in his core group of players....but that's it !
If truth be known they're nothing special ,and with the players at the managers disposal he had more than enough options to have switched things up ,if only to confound
Bilic's tactics ,which has to be said were underlined by Rodgers with his refusal to be less predictable.
In the first half we were tormented by Tore, and Sakho had his work cut out ,to all inside Anfield he was arguably their most potent threat ,we also seen that Ibe although
carrying a real attacking threat was naive in his defending and this often left Can exposed ,we seen how rigid our midfield was with no player pushing up to provide
protection for our main course of invention 'Coutinho' who was marked out of the game ...Bilic was more than happy to let us have the lions share of possession ,whilst retaining a firm line in defence ,they also constructed the best attacks and arguably had enough chances to return to Turkey with a few goals.
Balotelli was introduced and we looked much more threatening and more inventive ,and yet this seems to completely escape the managerEuropean football is a different animal than the kick and rush of the Premier League ,it requires intelligence and the tactical nous to outmanoeuvre your opponent. It may make for depressing reading ,but Liverpool are so predictable in Europe ,and managers can devise their counter tactics a month before the game.
That game on Thursday typified the reason we're out of the Champion's League and it evoked some deeply unpleasant memories of our game against Basel ,a real lack
of game intelligence and once again overlooking the best players to complete the job . I mean what's so difficult ,the games at Anfield and you have two brilliant strikers
to spearhead your attack and you leave one (who has started to play with a real flourish of late ) on the bench ....it completely baffles me
Whilst I agree that BR has still much to learn in Europe, what baffles me is anyone blaming the manager for not relyinng on Balotelli, when during the first half of the season the manager stuck with Balotelli and time and again the player has let his manager down. And the current resurgence wasn't based on Balotelli.
It could be argued though that earlier on in the season Balotelli was carrying the can for our poor performances when it was other area's of the team that were not functioning properly.
Is it any coincidence that once Gerrard was moved out of midfield and Lovren out of the back 4 that our form improved dramatically?
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